Invariablity of pressing for perfection :: demystified?

[comicwiz]

I have a run of Fritzi Ritz comics, including the first appearances of Peanuts signed by Shultz. One of the issues had some warping on it that I imagine happened because of improper storage. This book, along with a few others were picked up from flea market in Vancouver some years back while visiting the city.

 

Upon returning from the trip, I sandwiched the book between two thick and heavy artbooks (each weighing about 10 pounds each), and placed them between an industrial vice, in a room with a normal temperature. I left the comic between the vice for nearly 3 months, having completely forgetten about the project, and later, refinding the book still sandwiched between the vice while doing some home renovations around the house.

 

The warping -- completely gone. I lay the book flat on my desk for what seemed to be an hour to see if the warping would somehow be revealed. The original warping was near the bottom left corner and went from about the centre of the book, right down to the corner. Nothing doing. the book had now become completely flat.

 

A year has passed since, and last week, while going through a bunch of books to list on auction, I rediscovered that Fritzi Ritz comic which had undergone the pressing experiment. I took it out of the mylar, and sure as the day is bright, the warping was evident once again.

 

Granted, the warping had gone down considerably, but it was still evident as the corner lifted from the same table where it had layed flat just a year earlier. I should mention that the book had been stored in a temperature controlled environment since the pressing, and the book was placed in a half-box with about 100 other GA comics, so the book was stored upright, and sandwiched between other comics in a snug/tight, comic box.

 

From this expirment, I have come to the realization that pressing may well be nothing more than a short-term aesthetic improvement with invariable results. Meaning, that any book changed through means of pressing may in fact transform back, revealing its flaws over the course time. Granted, I don't consider myself much of a professionalwhen it comes to the practice of pressing, but I am curious to hear anyone who may provide some insights to disprove/debate my own findings. Since this discovery, I have decided to devote some time to experimenting with this further to see if in fact, pressing can achieve "permanent" improvements on a comic.

 

What does this have to say about the possibility of buying pressed comics, and months/years later, discovering that the book has returned to its original state? And what does this say about the current state of the comic hobby where pressing is becoming a more widespread practice?

 

As well, I welcome any comments, insights or suggestions that might allow me a more scientific approach to the procedure of pressing.

[Ze-man]

Nice post,

Well I can add this your pressing experiments.

Since paper is a wood product, and I work in wood.

 

All wood can be manipulated to create curves by getting it wet, put it in a mold, or clamp it to desired shape and then when dry it remains that way.

 

So it lends itself to your pressing experiment, while the vice you created did indeed take out some of the warp, unless you got the fibers damp in the comic, before pressing it flat, then just dry pressing wont "release" the curved fibres in the paper stock.

 

I assume it behaves like real wood to an extent, granted paper is made from pulp, but its roots go back to wood. and "woodlike" charecteristics, so unless there is a way to "wet, dampen" the book before pressing without causing further damage , then dry pressing will only be a short term quick fix , so to speak.

 

I also was taught by a master craftsman , that wood behaves like a ligament in your knee.

In such that once it is bent, or overstretched a certain way, it will always have tendancies to go back that same way , not matter what you do to try and remedy it.

The fibers lose their tensil strength on a moleculer level and never recover their original crisp give and take/push/pull strength.

 

So I guess this all comfirms your "control group" dry pressing experiment.

Interesting post though, and hey wasnt it a blast to re-discover your "lost comics in those books?" after all that time.

 

Zeman

 

 

 

[OldGuy]

Great, now CGC will have to add a one year "hold time" to it's turn around times.

[comicwiz]

I also was taught by a master craftsman , that wood behaves like a ligament in your knee.

In such that once it is bent, or overstretched a certain way, it will always have tendancies to go back that same way , not matter what you do to try and remedy it.

The fibers lose their tensil strength on a moleculer level and never recover their original crisp give and take/push/pull strength.

 

Ironically, I strained my MCL back in November, and the doctor used the example of wood!!

 

So I guess this all comfirms your "control group" dry pressing experiment.

Interesting post though, and hey wasnt it a blast to re-discover your "lost comics in those books?" after all that time.

 

Its been a blast this past few months really rediscovering some books I had completely forgotten about. With the Fritzi Ritz book, it was only about a year since it was pressed. I have since placed it between the vice again to see if I can get it down some more.

 

The opinions in your post sound very logical to me. Although, I am super skeptical about presenting any liquids into the equation. I do have a steamer from my childhood bouts with bronchitis. Any insights as to whether controlled exposure to the moisture of steam might help the paper arrive at a state more conducive to achieving a permanently flattened cover?

[comicwiz]

Great, now CGC will have to add a one year "hold time" to it's turn around times.

 

[Ze-man]

 

The opinions in your post sound very logical to me. Although, I am super skeptical about presenting any liquids into the equation. I do have a steamer from my childhood bouts with bronchitis. Any insights as to whether controlled exposure to the moisture of steam might help the paper arrive at a state more conducive to achieving a permanently flattened cover?

 

 

Well, do you have any other "warped comics" that are not so valuable?

Readers perhaps from same era? Title, publisher

 

A new experiment is needed to see what happens,with steam, then pressing.

Get back to this post in 1 year! with your results

 

Once you have perfected your process, patent it, and we will refer to it as "comicwizzing " a comic .....not pressing

 

Zeman

[kryptonitecomics]

I took a copy of an ASM #10 with a sizeable spine roll and re-aligned the covers. I then placed it back in a milar bag with a backing board, making sure that the covers stayed aligned.

 

Next I put the comic on top of a 5,000 count box of baseball cards and then stacked about 5 more boxes on top so the total weight on the book had to have been over 150 pounds.

 

I left it there for two or three weeks and once removed the spine roll is completely gone and the book lays perfectly flat. I had anticipated seeing some of what you saw in you experiment, which is the book will most likely begin to return to it's original rolled form if left in a normal box standing on end. I believe it will take some time, and ultimately I should just leave it in the pressed state until I decide to have it slabbed. I would imagine that it's ability to return to it's original form even slightly would be somewhat impeded by being encased in the slab.

[comicwiz]

Next I put the comic on top of a 5,000 count box of baseball cards and then stacked about 5 more boxes on top so the total weight on the book had to have been over 150 pounds.

 

I just checked the specs on this vice I bought (fairly new actually) and its rated with a maximum capacity of 20kN, 4496 lbf

[Mr. Zipper]

I agree with what previous posters have said regarding the paper fibers, and I would not be surprised is professional restorers slightly misted books before pressing to prime the fibers for "reshaping."

 

The ability of a press to "hold" is probably a factor of how long the fibers have been "bent", the paper type and the resiliancy of the fibers in that paperstock.

 

I would presume that not all press jobs will revert, but some may.

 

[comicwiz]

I would imagine that it's ability to return to it's original form even slightly would be somewhat impeded by being encased in the slab.

 

You would think that would be the case:

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind, that when I bought these books, they were perfectly aligned, no warping whatsoever. I have owned these books for about the same length of time as all the slabs where they are stored (about 3 years). These are the only ones with this type of warping.

 

So should we remove from the possibility that a) these books were improperly stored; b) that the CGC casing is not conducive to upright storage; or c) that these books reverted back to their original form? One things for sure; (and although the image are blurry, the examples above clearly indicate) the CGC inner-well and casing does little to prevent a book to revert back to original form, if the pressing doesn't hold up to its task.

[Ze-man]

Can you get better pix than that?

 

I know close ups are hard to get in focus, but even if taken farther away, it would help us to see the warp progression you are speaking of in the CGC case.

Thanks

Zeman

[OldGuy]

I would not be surprised is professional restorers slightly misted books before pressing to prime the fibers for "reshaping."

 

Light steam maybe? Like when your shaping a hat?

[FFB]

Why not just send the book to Matt Nelson? I am sure he doesn't charge that much for a simple pressing.

 

I would not be surprised is professional restorers slightly misted books before pressing to prime the fibers for "reshaping."

 

Light steam maybe? Like when your shaping a hat?

[OldGuy]

Why not just send the book to Matt Nelson? I am sure he doesn't charge that much for a simple pressing.

 

I would not be surprised is professional restorers slightly misted books before pressing to prime the fibers for "reshaping."

 

Light steam maybe? Like when your shaping a hat?

 

On a high dollar book for sure. I don't actually have any books with rolled spines. I don't mind date stamps or pencil dates and as long as PQ isn't to bad I don't mind that being off as well, but rolled spines just freak me out for some reason.

[comicwiz]

Can you get better pix than that?

 

This is the best I can do, and you can still get a sense of the warp progression from the contrast between the inner guts, and the dark covers (these are 3 different books):

 

 

 

[drbanner]

...the CGC inner-well and casing does little to prevent a book to revert back to original form, if the pressing doesn't hold up to its task.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here - was this book flat before being slabbed?

 

I've noticed that many times the inner well itself is warped and the book doesn't lay flat inside the slab. Over time, this will cause the book itself to warp, even after being removed from the well (hysteresis). I've brought this up before and suggested those clear/stiff backing boards be used to ensure a book remains flat in the inner well...just got an FF 25 that has this problem and have been weighing whether or not I should remove it? I'll try to see if I can get scans to illustrate the problem.

[comicwiz]

Maybe I'm missing something here - was this book flat before being slabbed?

 

I owned these book already slabbed Mike; but I can assure you that these books were as straight as an arrow, and with no signs of warping when I originally bought them.

 

I didn't want to sidetrack the post; which has more to do with revealing the cons of pressing as a method of improving a comics appearance/grade. It is from my own experiment of pressing, and through my own trial, that I have noticed the comic reverted back to its original warping flaws.

 

These CGC slabbed examples were meant to demonstrate how the inner well/casing is not a preventative measure to a comic reverting back to its original defects after pressing (ie. warping), in relation to kryptonitecomics comments in this thread.

[drbanner]

Gotcha...in the case of the X-men, looks like the inner well warped the books (or at the very least, the inner well has now warped and dragged the book along with it).

 

Perhaps I'll start a new thread if I can get good example pics...

[comicwiz]

Gotcha...in the case of the X-men, looks like the inner well warped the books (or at the very least, the inner well has now warped and dragged the book along with it).

 

Perhaps I'll start a new thread if I can get good example pics...

 

Post them here if you'd like Mike; I've got a few more examples I can add to the cause

[goldust40]

So what we're looking at here actually has serious implications - apart from the probability that many collectors (especially of G.A.) will own a book with undisclosed pressing that will revert, in time, to its' "original" shape in the holder, we now have a new concern about the possibility of the inner well of slabs warping the book within. The effect of both will be similar, natch.

 

It's a whole new can of worms. I don't think this is cause for alarmism, but the fact remains that not enough is known about these two scenarios.

 

Could the (possible and not proven) warping of the book due to the inner well be reversed, I wonder.