Invariablity of pressing for perfection :: demystified?

[Mr. Zipper]

we now have a new concern about the possibility of the inner well of slabs warping the book within.

 

Speaking of damage from the inner well....

 

I have a book where the centerfold pages stuck out a bit, and the edge of the page was actually sealed into the seam on the well. Obviously, when the book shifted in the well, the piece ripped off and still sits there sealed in the seam.

 

Not good.

[fantastic_four]

I would not be surprised is professional restorers slightly misted books before pressing to prime the fibers for "reshaping."

 

Light steam maybe? Like when your shaping a hat?

 

Some sort of a humidifier might assist as well...I'm going to have to buy a press now and start experimenting!

[comicwiz]

Some sort of a humidifier might assist as well...I'm going to have to buy a press now and start experimenting!

 

My brother-in-law owns a dry cleaning plant - you just gave me a thought about commandeering his shirt pressing machine

[Ze-man]

Some sort of a humidifier might assist as well...I'm going to have to buy a press now and start experimenting!

 

My brother-in-law owns a dry cleaning plant - you just gave me a thought about commandeering his shirt pressing machine

 

yup, never hurts to try it out on a few "reader samples"

 

I would start off with only a short pressing time and not wait that long after pressing. To see what happened

It would seem logical, if you exposed a comic to some sort of non contact moisture, and then a pressing , some sort or heat would speed the "cure time"

 

Anyhow, good luck with your experiments.

 

Also I was thinking, since you want to "press " the comics that has been "warped by stacking.

Doesnt it seem like a good idea to make a "counter mold" in the exact shape of the direction of the warp?

 

If somehow you could make a 2 sided press with a slight curve to it, with both sides once toghther would re-curve the comic in the opposite direction.

Then a flat pressing after you re curve it?

That make sense?

Just a thought.

 

Zeman

[ArAich]

Cool thread Joseph..being a "drooling fanboy" I always wondered this myself...I have come to this conclusion...

If a book that has warped is pressed to it's original flatness ...then the book was once again exposed to the same, or similar, conditions...then over time the book would be predisposed to warping in the same manner as it originally had...

 

JMO....

[comicwiz]

Also I was thinking, since you want to "press " the comics that has been "warped by stacking.

Doesnt it seem like a good idea to make a "counter mold" in the exact shape of the direction of the warp?

 

Maybe if you were to elaborate on this a little more, I might understand it. My thinking is that using two flat slabs (say smooth, hard plastic, two sheets, with about 9" x 11" dimensions, and about 1.5" - 3" thick) to sandwich the comic within. I thought about finding ceramic, as it might be wise to use material that contain some thermal absorbtion, but for now, I'm going to keep this simple.

Then tightly fasten the slabs using tape, real tight. Then place the slabbed comic in a plastic bag (polypropelene, with no backing board), and seal the bag tightly, but so that the comic fits nicely, but not crammed.

 

A thought that ran across my head; if you have never seen a shirt press, basically, its like two ironing boards that close sort of like a clamshell. A lever brings the two boards together very tightly, and my brother and law confirmed that it presses at approximately 225lbf (pounds of force). There is also a contraption which emits steam throughout the two pressing boards. Works really nicely on shirts -- not sure about comics though

 

The other thing that I thought about; in order for the steam to have any effect on the paper, it would make sense to take the bagged comic, and perforate it along the middle area (between the slabs -- without poking the comic of course) using a needle. This way, when you release the steam (in a controlled manner), the steam/moisture could not only enter slowly into the bagging, but also get somewhat trapped to allow the paper to absorb the moisture in a sort of time-release manner, and perhaps improving the chances of the pressing to take a more permanent hold.

 

Sound crazy or what?!?!?!

 

I thought about this while I was stuck in traffic this afternoon -- although I should say that during the time spent visualizing the entire process of pressing comics, the thought did enter my mind of putting a few lamebrain drivers heads between the shirt press!

 

If somehow you could make a 2 sided press with a slight curve to it, with both sides once toghther would re-curve the comic in the opposite direction.

Then a flat pressing after you re curve it?

That make sense?

Just a thought.

 

Actually, that does make sense. The only thing that would worry me is exposing the book for too long in the opposite direction, so as to render the flat pressing process futile.

 

I guess it comes down to experimenting, and as you suggested Zeman, it would make sense to start with some 50 cent bin comics.

[comicwiz]

Cool thread Joseph..being a "drooling fanboy" I always wondered this myself...I have come to this conclusion...

If a book that has warped is pressed to it's original flatness ...then the book was once again exposed to the same, or similar, conditions...then over time the book would be predisposed to warping in the same manner as it originally had...

 

JMO....

 

Thanks Rick

 

I agree. It would make sense to properly store the book after you spend some time fixing it. I should say that the Fritzi Ritz book I bought in that condition from a flea market. The book was bagged, but with no backing board. The seller placed the books in a vegetable box (might have been green peppers), so the dimensions of the box were not ideal for comic storage, and the books were floating around in there, every which way. When I picked up the book, the bottom corner up to the centre of the book was warped, not exactly earmarked, but taking the same shape without any creases or breaks in colour on the covers.

 

Even when you tried to lay the book flat, it would bump up from the left corner and raise significantly off the table surface (I'd say as much as 2"). After pressing it though, I did everything I could to store that comic properly. So the fact that it reverted back to its original warping/bend might have had something to do with; a) the fibers of paper on the cover and interior were too far gone, and couldn't be restored to its original flatness; or b) my pressing job wasn't executed properly.

 

Either way, I think because of some of the things mentioned in this post already, specifically about the properties of paper, it is concievable that depending on the severity of the warping or bend in a comic, pressing may be hit-and-miss, and may be a more appropriate method for short-term aesthetic improvements.

[Ze-man]

 

Actually, that does make sense. The only thing that would worry me is exposing the book for too long in the opposite direction, so as to render the flat pressing process futile.

 

 

Well I got the idea from what I would normally do if I had a piece of paper, or a poster that was rolled up for years, to try and flatten it I would simply roll it up the opposite way it was stored, and try and tighten it up as much as possible to counter bend it, then when unrolled it would at least lay a little flatter and not try to curl up back to its "stored rolled" condition.

So with that said, since a comic has a warped, rolled edge( almost always from stacking?),

I was trying to think of a way to counter bend it without damageing the comic further.

So obviously we dont want to roll it up like the poster method I described earlier.

But in a mold/press that has a contour shape that would create a press that slightly counter bends the comics warping.

Instead of a flat press, it would have to be made with 1 side of the press being convex, and 1 side concave, so when presssed together it would create a "counter press" home for your warped comic to try and release its warping tendencies.

Mind you , even though it would have a curve to it, the press once together would be tight and no gaps between the sides once together.

So once a comic(wet or dry) was placed in this for a time( 2-3 months>?) under a decent amount of pressure (clamps would be the best method), it would come out flat, and some of the warping would be "softer" due to it being "pressed, or rolled" in the opposite direction.

I must admit, I have no idea what this would do to the comics alignment, and how the outside edge would line up.

So start with the experiments, and contact me anytime,

I would love to discuss a possible press and fax you a few sketches as to where to start.

 

And as far as steam goes.. if exposed to mild steam to soften the comic fibers, and then pressed in ceramic, or clay tiles to draw out the steam moisture,

I think as long as the comic stays perfectly pressed while it is drying, I think it will not be affected by the steam

That is only a hypothisis though, founded by nothing but speculation.

 

[Aman619]

I havent read this whole thread - - so if this has been mentioned, sorry.

 

I agre that it is defnitely shady to crack out a graded book, press it flatter and resubmit for a higher grade. But - -what about if you take your own book and place under a pile of books for a few weeks to make it tighter and flatter, and THEN send it in fro slabbing?

 

Is there a difference here?

 

At first I think theres a big difference... we all think its shady when Heritage (perhaps) does it. But really, if the book grades better does it matter WHEN the work was performed? Let me add that I realize Om drawing a grey kline between amateur pressing.... and Professional (equipment) pressing that others might not agre with.

[drbanner]

But - -what about if you take your own book and place under a pile of books for a few weeks to make it tighter and flatter, and THEN send it in fro slabbing?

 

If that's gonna get you a PLOD, everyone better make sure they don't have too many books squeezed into their boxes...

[FFB]

Hasn't Steve Borock said on countless occasions that pressing and dry cleaning doesn't count as restoration unless the cover has been removed? Like in this thread, most recently? And my understanding of cover removal is that it's pretty easy to tell when this has occurred because of the difference in where the tines of the staples are versus where the staple marks on the centerfold are (which show where the staple tines used to be), and also because the staple holes themselves will be enlarged from the pulling and replacing of the staples?

 

But - -what about if you take your own book and place under a pile of books for a few weeks to make it tighter and flatter, and THEN send it in fro slabbing?

 

If that's gonna get you a PLOD, everyone better make sure they don't have too many books squeezed into their boxes...

[comicwiz]

Hasn't Steve Borock said on countless occasions that pressing and dry cleaning doesn't count as restoration unless the cover has been removed? And my understanding of cover removal is that it's pretty easy to tell when this has occurred because of the difference in where the tines of the staples are versus where the staple marks on the centerfold are (which show where the staple tines used to be), and also because the staple holes themselves will be enlarged from the pulling and replacing of the staples?

 

It appears (as fantastic_four alluded to in a question posed to Steve in a previous reply in a related thread) that there might be some examples of books which had their cover removed for pressing work, which might have gone unnoticed, and recieved a blue label.

[drbanner]

It appears (as fantastic_four alluded to in a question posed to Steve in a previous reply in a related thread) that there might be some examples of books which had their cover removed for pressing work, which might have gone unnoticed, and recieved a blue label.

 

That's correct. As I recall, there was at least one of these cleaned/pressed resub examples that came back in a blue label holder where it appeared that the book was folded differently (no longer as off-center as it once was, and perhaps clearly showing different staple placement?), leading to the assumption that the cover was removed. Anyone remember which book this was?

 

However, whether or not the book was removed would be much easier to determine from holding the book in your hand than it would be from comparing two scans on the internet. A book with a spine roll where the back cover shows on the front would not have to be taken apart to correct that spine roll (and have the back cover no longer apparent).

[comicwiz]

Before

Zip Comics #1, CGC Fine Plus, sold for $1150

 

After

Zip Comics #1, CGC VF-, sold for $1955

 

Kudos to Shield for bringing this to our attention

 

 

[chromium]

[comicwiz]

 

Probably a good idea to show the back covers as well:

 

Before[/b}

 

After

[chromium]

Man that's a lot of wonderbread.....

[drbanner]

Hmmm...I thought there was a different, yet similar, example. This one appears to be consistent with Steve's statement that "CGC does not consider DRY cleaning (earsure, not water or solvent) and pressing (when not taken apart and done correctly/safely) restoration."

[AtomicPaul-migration]

Great thread with many excelent ideas! But I do have something to add that everyone may have overlooked...

Why not just ask Matt Nelson how to do what was done on the Zip shown above??

If that book came through Heritage, chances are that he's the one that did the modification since he is their employee (restoration expert) as well as running his own restoration service and his own auctions on Ebay.

 

If anyone is on speaking or regular terms with him, just ask him. None of this is any big secret and he may tell interested parties what to do as far as minor modifications to get better CGC grades on their submittals, since this really isn't considered restoration.