Crazy Prices on Marvel Keys?

[fantastic_four]

I don't think it's a top 10 book in terms of story either. If we're talking quality of story I'd take issues 56-59 or so.

 

Well I guess I've got to agree...I thought the Silver Surfer's motivation for turning against Galactus was overly quick and unbelievable. The character concepts were much cooler than the story ended up being...the global scale of the threat of Galactus was something I had never seen in a comic before, which again is why the FF 48 cover is so COOL!

[Bronty]

God is that ever the truth. That book (JIM 83) is hard to get through in one sitting.

[joe_collector]

I DISAGREE! The whole issue portends Galactus's coming...even though he doesn't appear until the last page...

 

This is a joke right, a parody of Bruce's similar assertions to Hulk 180?

[Timely]

I disagree...the significantly lower supply of #49 entirely explains the similarity in price.

 

 

You guys are not being very smart here with regards to the rarity of FF #48 vs #49. You've got to know that both books are about equally as common! The only reason #48 seems easier is because few #49's get submitted due to it's lower value. Also at the cons, when a dealer has enough room to fit a 48 or 49 in with the stock, the 49 stays home. It's all about the "bling bling" folks!

 

Timely

[COI]

I disagree...the significantly lower supply of #49 entirely explains the similarity in price.

 

 

You guys are not being very smart here with regards to the rarity of FF #48 vs #49. You've got to know that both books are about equally as common! The only reason #48 seems easier is because few #49's get submitted due to it's lower value. Also at the cons, when a dealer has enough room to fit a 48 or 49 in with the stock, the 49 stays home. It's all about the "bling bling" folks!

 

Timely

 

Equally as common?

 

So, you're telling me there's no incentive to submit FF #49's, compared to $48's?

 

The whole premise of this conversation is that FF #49's sell for equal or more $$ in some grades as FF #48 does. That's why this debate started in the first place. So how can it be about "bling bling" if FF 49 sells for the same or more than FF 48 when slabbed? That dosen't make any sense.

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #49 CGC 9.6

$3,217.00 JUN-23-02

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #49 CGC 9.4

$2,100.00 AUG2002

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #49 CGC 9.2

$610.00 SEP-2002

 

I suspect that any long time dealer will verify that #49 is much tougher than #48. And what about #50? I've never seen anything higher than a 9.2 offered publically, and I suspect a 9.4 would sell in the $2000 - $3000 range.

[Timely]

Once dealers see how well (high$) these first #49's are selling you can be sure they will now send in their copies of #49. They already sent in their #48's to CGC for the last few years.

 

In about 2 years from now there will be almost as many #49's in the CGC census as there are #48's currently.

 

Timely

[COI]

In about 2 years from now there will be almost as many #49's in the CGC census as there are #48's currently.

 

If you would like to place a bet on this, I'd love to take. Just name the stakes.

[jhumd-migration]

The FF 49 impressive sales started over a year and a half ago. I would suspect that many more submissions would have surfaced by now if a significant quantity did exist.

[BronzeBruce13]

I DISAGREE! The whole issue portends Galactus's coming...even though he doesn't appear until the last page...

 

This is a joke right, a parody of Bruce's similar assertions to Hulk 180?

 

 

I think it must have been... that was too impassioned a response considering you guys were actually agreeing for the most part.

 

et tu James?.. et tu

 

I guess we all remember our favorites a bit differently... or with a bias.

I suppose if you two can have a laugh at my expense at the same time... it must be universally humorous

[greggy]

FANTASTIC FOUR #49 CGC 9.6

$3,217.00 JUN-23-02

Of course, another 9.6 sold the next month in the Heritage auction for around $4,600.

[fantastic_four]

You guys are not being very smart here with regards to the rarity of FF #48 vs #49. You've got to know that both books are about equally as common! The only reason #48 seems easier is because few #49's get submitted due to it's lower value. Also at the cons, when a dealer has enough room to fit a 48 or 49 in with the stock, the 49 stays home. It's all about the "bling bling" folks!

 

And you're not giving us much credit. You could blindly make your argument for ANY key issue from any age, but in the case of FF #48, it's invalid.

 

Fantastic Four #48 was one of the multi-copy issues that was part of the Mile High 2 collection, and it has always been more available than the other Marvel keys. That's why it's explicitly not on the "buy" list for many dealers such as Metropolis or Bob Storms (Bob's buy list is here: http://www.highgradecomics.com/index_page7.htm ); they know it's hard to make a profit on that book paying anywhere near Guide prices because the normal Silver Age Marvel multiples are watered down due to the high supply. Ask any long-time dealer of Silver Age Marvels and they'll tell you that FF 48 has always been more widely available than other key issues from the same time period. I've heard that some dealers literally had stacks of NM copies of this issue sitting on tables at conventions during the 70s and 80s. Also note that several of the other Marvel issues released the same month as FF #48 are also more commonly available than most Silver Age issues despite the fact that they're not key at all, with Spidey #33 being the best example.

 

I'm not convinced that FF #48 is more available than most Silver Age Marvels from the same period only because of Mile High 2. Comic-keys claims he can distinguish two different sets of color variations on the gradiated red background on FF #48, inferring that there might be two different printings of that issue out there (I know, I know, he can't be trusted, but that doesn't mean he lies about EVERYTHING, so it's something to consider unless it can be disproven). I'm not exactly sure why it's such a common issue, but there's no doubt that it is if you've been watching the Silver Age Marvel market closely for any length of time.

[FFB]

Because of Galactus' shorts.

 

Why? Sorry, Silver Surfer just isn't THAT important of a character.

 

Brian

[clobberintime]

Not that the great debate over Galactus and FF 48 and 49 isn't thrilling, but back to the real topic - how about Avengers 25 9.6 last night for $1200!!! 9.4s have gone in the $350 to $500 range and I expected maybe $800 but this passes as nothing but pure stupidity. Not even a key - a great cover and Doc Doom story but come on. A great time to be selling high grade stuff for sure.

[Rickdogg]

When is the crash coming?

[drbanner]

When is the crash coming?

 

[clobberintime]

I don't know but for god's sakes let it be soon! I can't take much more of these record sales. I think what the crash cult meant to say way back when was that there would first be a season of unbelievably high and unexplainable prices, followed by 7 days of frogs raining from the sky - and then the crash! But seriously, all these incredibly high prices does have a down side that will probably have some long term negative effects. Noticed all the long time collectors cashing in their chips? When prices get like this, people who are in the middle of putting together runs get discouraged - it looks like an impossible task so they give up! Are the new buyers in this for the long haul or are they jumping on the bandwagon to make a quick buck or because it is the "hot" thing to do? Who knows. But I think long time collectors getting out becuase they feel priced out of the market is not a good thing. I have been tempted to sell some of my dupes lately but had a plan when I started and am sticking to it. I just hope the collectors don't get pushed out altogether or that they come back at some point - maybe when the crash or correction occurs. One good part about this escalation has been the amount of good stuff to come on the market. This has been better than the movie releases for bringing out the good books. I was on ebay a year prior to cgc and have nver seen the quality and volume of good stuff that has been up in the last 6 months.

[sfilosa]

Not that the great debate over Galactus and FF 48 and 49 isn't thrilling, but back to the real topic - how about Avengers 25 9.6 last night for $1200!!! 9.4s have gone in the $350 to $500 range and I expected maybe $800 but this passes as nothing but pure stupidity. Not even a key - a great cover and Doc Doom story but come on. A great time to be selling high grade stuff for sure.

 

If the person really wants the book, how can it be pure stupidity?

 

Excluding issue #24 (which was obviously part of the Mile High II find), GPAnalysis doesn't even show one sale in 9.6 for ANY AVENGERS from issue 21-29 (#24 excluded).

 

In other words, it's not like you can find these books in 9.6 all the time.

 

[clobberintime]

No but you can look at the guide and that GP isn't everything now is it - does anyone have any common sense left? I bought a 9.6 #23 a little while ago and paid under $400 and it is just as hard to find as the 25 due to the Romita cover. When you start paying prices for books that are completely unexplainable, I think you start setting yourself up for some problems - unless you are one of those incredibly wealthy types that lights his cigars with benjamins. Most people don't like giving away or losing money. Maybe it is worth that much to some nutty collector who has to have a 9.6 run or something but it looks like bandwagon fever to me. Like recent sales of Hulk 1 and journey 83. At times those books would appear and not move for months. For example the Hulk 1 pacific coast I bought last year - how many times did that go on ebay before i bought it and now an 8.5 sells for $20,000 something? So people have sudedenly discovered these values just recently? Must have been a true come to jesus old timey conversion. But more likely a few people wirth a bunch of money who are caught up in the moment. History does repeat it self you know?

[delekkerste]

"But seriously, all these incredibly high prices does have a down side that will probably have some long term negative effects. Noticed all the long time collectors cashing in their chips? When prices get like this, people who are in the middle of putting together runs get discouraged - it looks like an impossible task so they give up!"

 

"One good part about this escalation has been the amount of good stuff to come on the market. This has been better than the movie releases for bringing out the good books." [what a novel concept - high prices bringing out more supply. I guess those economic textbooks that you make fun of were right after all - Gene]

 

"No but you can look at the guide and that GP isn't everything now is it - does anyone have any common sense left?"

 

"So people have sudedenly discovered these values just recently? Must have been a true come to jesus old timey conversion. But more likely a few people wirth a bunch of money who are caught up in the moment. History does repeat it self you know?"

 

I never thought I would live to see the day where the guy making the most sense on the Boards is Clobberintime.

 

Gene

[clobberintime]

I always made sense - at least to myself! I have avoided paying crazy prices when I could but i am a colletion/run longterm collector. I like things in the 9.2/9.4 range buit will spend more for favorite covers - I have always said that cgc's greatest marketing tool was the creation of the tiny differences between books in the 9.2 to 9.8 range. It caters to the wealthy buyer who has to have one up and who doesn't care about paying 20 x guide etc. I have multiple s of a lot of books in ranges of 9.2 to 9.6 and still can't see why the 9.6s command the prices that they do - you pay a lot more for very little upgrade., And yeah I know about the census - but all this was brought over from the coin market. I have never felt comfortable paying prices that i could not relate to Overstreet or to what I knew about the "rarity" of a book. I still think the Marvels pre - 1970 will maintain values consistent with OS fro a long time to come but am not so sure about the prices being paid presently. Everything has its time and nothing is hot forever - so is this the top of the wave? The time to sell? Who knows for sure? I am certainly not selling my stuff - it has been too long and too tough in putting it together. I am starting to buy other comics though - for instnce Golden age in the 7.0 to 8.0 range is a bargain when compared to nutty high grade amarvel prices. That stuff is much harder to find and there is much less competition right now with so mayn focused only on super high grade MARVEL.