Ebay being unfairly lenient on the larger dealers. An OUTRAGE!!!

[BassGMan]

Hello, I left this little story on another thread but I didn't think it received the attention that it deserves, so I am starting a new thread. I believe this is a very important subject for all comic dealers on Ebay.

 

About nine months ago I was NARU'd by Ebay and I deserved it. I had amassed a large collection of adult oriented comics and I wanted to list them in the general listings with censored photos as Ebay's adult section gets very little exposure. At first I thought using censored photos would be OK, it was not, and after trying to use a few clever ideas and still try to get away with it, I was NARU'd. Hey, I didn't follow the rules and I deserved it. That's not the problem.

 

The main reason that I thought I could get away with this is because I saw so many other adult comics listed, many of which did not even the covers. I am talking Faust, London Night, Avatar and Double Impact books with nude art or photo covers among others. So.... after my suspension is up I get back on Ebay and hell, if I got NARU'd for this I am going to turn in every other offender I see to get their listings pulled and maybe get them NARU'd as well. Call it revenge, fairness, bitterness, or whatever. If I can't do it, neither can they.

 

So, here's the problem. I spent a couple hours a day scouring every nook and cranny of the comics section on Ebay looking for nude cover comics, adult comics, comics listed as "adult only" and etc. I found dozens, maybe 50 or so each time I looked, some being more explicit than others but all breaking Ebay's rules about adult content (I read their policies thoroughly to see what was and was not allowed). Since I wanted to see how long it took for the listings to be pulled I always saved them as "items to watch" in My Ebay. Something very very interesting started to happen. You bet, alot of those listings quickly disappeared as Ebay pulled them, often in less that 12 hours. But you know what? It was all the little guy's listings that were pulled. Many of these naughty books were listed surprisingly by large dealers with 300+ current listings. ALMOST ALL OF THESE LISTINGS PLACED BY LARGE DEALERS WERE NOT PULLED AND ALLOWED TO COMPLETE THE LISTING DURATION AND EVENTUALLY SOLD. Maybe a couple were pulled but at least 90% stayed up. And some of these books were much more adult or explicit than the ones pulled by all the little dealers. The little dealers had their ads pulled 100% of the time as I only turned in listings that I was sure were breaking the rules.

 

Isn't this just totally unfair? Ebay will allow the big guys to do as they wish as Ebay knows that they count on the big dealers for the bulk of their business. But sure, shut down us little guys. I eventually just moved on and never brought this new found knowledge to Ebay's attention but it surely pissed me off.

 

If anyone wants to experiment with this on their own then go ahead, you will most likely get the same results. Go to comics in Ebay and then do searches for "nude", "adult", "mature", and titles that you know contain adult content and nudity. You'll find many more by clicking the tab where these words are also in the listing description as well as the heading. -------Sid

[Rickdogg]

Money talks

[sterlingcomics]

..and BS walks...

[ScarFace-migration]

Hmmmm...greggy walks...coincidence?

[Darthdiesel]

Isn't this just totally unfair? Ebay will allow the big guys to do as they wish as Ebay knows that they count on the big dealers for the bulk of their business. But sure, shut down us little guys. I eventually just moved on and never brought this new found knowledge to Ebay's attention but it surely pissed me off

 

Long time dealers know how to toe the line and get off with a slap on the wrist. Newbies usually make "fatal" errors in listing, with flagrant violations of ebay policy and get their listings pulled. And as in any business, money talks...I'd be more willing to turn a "blind eye" if it is not a blatant abuse of the system to the ones that bring me more revenue

 

 

Now, my advice, get to selling and transacting on the same level as these big sellers, and you won't have to worry or play the game by the rules and don't worry about what others are doing so much. Just becuase you were not slick enough to get caught doesn't mean that others are not...

[davidking623]

Isn't this just totally unfair? Ebay will allow the big guys to do as they wish as Ebay knows that they count on the big dealers for the bulk of their business. But sure, shut down us little guys. I eventually just moved on and never brought this new found knowledge to Ebay's attention but it surely pissed me off

 

Long time dealers know how to toe the line and get off with a slap on the wrist. Newbies usually make "fatal" errors in listing, with flagrant violations of ebay policy and get their listings pulled. And as in any business, money talks...I'd be more willing to turn a "blind eye" if it is not a blatant abuse of the system to the ones that bring me more revenue

 

 

Now, my advice, get to selling and transacting on the same level as these big sellers, and you won't have to worry or play the game by the rules and don't worry about what others are doing so much. Just becuase you were not slick enough to get caught doesn't mean that others are not...

 

LIFE IS JUST FULL OF SURPRISES!

 

Davidking623

[Darthdiesel]

I'm not advocating listing adult comics in the general area, but there is a huge difference in a "Mature comics lot" being sold without pics and the titles/issues in the descrip and and pulling up an auction with a nice huge cover scan of two barely clad women engaged in some questionable "battle poses" - and I'm also taking a mini jab at Bass

 

My point really is: Just CYA and follow the rules in your own dealings. It seems that bass is singling out bigger dealers/powersellers for wrongdoing as sour grapes for getting busted and because he doesn't agree with how eBay doles out its brand of justice.... IMO, he is just correlating coincidences and coming to the wrong conclusion

[Mephisto]

Why is there even an adult section aren't you supposed to be 18 the be using ebay, or is it just incase kids are merely looking on ebay but not buying?

[Darthdiesel]

18 to buy and sell, but you can be any age to look - you can be any age to surf the net, look at porn, etc or use ebay - I have young nieces and nephews pretty proficient at finding that exact toy/PSX game/DVD/doll/heroclix/gaming card via ebay and sending thier uncle the link to bid and win for them

[Darthdiesel]

I just thought about this: Anyone selling in the general ebay comics category - Marvel MAX titles, Wanted 1 and 2, or any Vertigo titles (oh the latest 2 issues of Y the Last Man comes to mind) - are they violating ebay rules by selling here? Or should they list these in the Adult section?

[BassGMan]

I'm not advocating listing adult comics in the general area, but there is a huge difference in a "Mature comics lot" being sold without pics and the titles/issues in the descrip and and pulling up an auction with a nice huge cover scan of two barely clad women engaged in some questionable "battle poses" - and I'm also taking a mini jab at Bass

 

My point really is: Just CYA and follow the rules in your own dealings. It seems that bass is singling out bigger dealers/powersellers for wrongdoing as sour grapes for getting busted and because he doesn't agree with how eBay doles out its brand of justice.... IMO, he is just correlating coincidences and coming to the wrong conclusion

 

Darth, I'm not stupid here. I appreciate your comments and understand that I may have not written enough details to clearly state my experience with this, but I am not talking about lots of adult comics without scans or photos. The ONLY listings I turned in included scans/photos of nude or censored nude covers. And some that may not have included a nude cover although were still very suggestive covers and included the words "adults only" or "must be 18 to bid/purchase".

 

And I MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT just single out the large dealers. As I was scanning the ads I turned in all that I could find and did not even pay attention to who the dealer was or how large of a dealer they were. It did not matter to me. Only after I started seeing the listings removed (and not be removed) was when I noticed whose listings were left running, and whose were not. This is a very accurate conclusion from my experience. No exaggeration, and no errors in memory. But YES, I do have sour grapes. NOT for being NARU'd myself as I did deserve it, but for favoratism in the way Ebay doles out it's justice. Seems as if they have different standards depending on who is breaking the rules. At least in this area. ----Sid (Bass Guitar Man)

[Darthdiesel]

I'll concede to your points here as not enough details about your study were put to satisfy me with your conclusion that eBay "favors" the big dealers. I also understood that you reported all regardless of whether they were big/small dealers. My point is were they breaking the "law" to the same degree? Did both big time dealers and small time dealers post nude/obscene scans that had no place in Comics General and were both reported and only the small dealer's auction was pulled? Or was it that the small time dealer had a nice scan of some acrobatic sexploits while the big dealer had a pile of adult comix but mainly showed titles and very little of the covers? I can't see an experienced dealer/powersellers (neatstuff, rob_react, flyingdonut, comgeek, etc) out there knowingly list adult/pornographic comics in ebay Comics general?

 

Right now there are 42 listings of "nude" in Comics general. I see 4 powersellers selling auctions with nude in the title and I checked them - they are harmless with no actual nudity shown:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2223946657&category=77

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2222078569&category=3981

 

 

 

A 0 rating seller listed this and covered up the naughty bits:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2223935405&category=3979

 

another 221 rated seller totally crosses the line:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2222398325&category=972

 

 

based on my small study here - the more experienced (over 1000) dealer/powersellers know how to list auctions properly and even if listing adult material/nude covers in ebay general do it in such a way that they will just get reprimanded; while the inexperienced sellers totally cross that line and rightfully should get their auctions pulled.

[Calamerica]

In all fairness to your concern BassGMan I have reached the conclusion that eBay's "Police" are a "hit-and-miss"; large AND small dealers get NARU'd - and also get away with things. I think it boils down to:

 

1) Timing of reported infractions. If the infraction is reported immediately, the larger chance that the user is confirmed violating eBay's listing rules and THEN confrontedand reprimanded.

 

2) Seriousness of the infraction(s): I saw a fellow Comics Boarder get his auctions shut down as he tried to list some Playboys - he merely re-listed them in the appropriate category and sold most, if not all of them. He was NOT NARU'd.

 

3) eBay Staffing: this probably comes and goes - I noticed that eBay's responses to me during my times of unpleasantness on eBay seem to go faster when more than one eBay employee is involved - the Customer Service WAS far superior in 2000 than now and I can remember phoning them and getting things accomplished over ONE phone call. Those days are long gone. All Customer support and complaints are handled via e-Mail and it is hard for us to tell when this system is operating at the best capability for solving the problems.

 

Bottom line: you were in the wrong place at the wrong time - when your auctions were reported eBay just happened to catch this quickly and it was easy to solve from their point of view. Others who had these risque comics might have only had a small amount of time left before they expired anyway. eBay might look the other way if this goes unnoticed after an auction like this runs without any reported infractions. eBay cannot possibly solve every email complaint/reporting infraction that must surely deluge their computers every day. eBay MUST pick and choose according to their current caseload. Of course eBay will say that they solve ALL inquiries, but I have my doubts.

 

Don't feel targeted or singled out. I know this is easier said than done, but I used to feel targeted but over the years one can see inconsistencies that makes the setbacks just minor paling to the long term of trading.

 

Take care.

 

 

[BassGMan]

C'mon guys, you just dont "get it". Or at least I am not doing a good enough job at reporting my experience with this. Darth, the two comics that you pointed out by large dealers, the Chaos title and the Silke I would have NOT turned in. They did not break any rule. There is nothing wrong with the word "nude" by itself. In those two cases the nudity was covered by arms or whatever. Like I said, I am not stupid, I only turned in listings that were breaking the rules. The title needs to be clearly showing nudity (including naughty bits censored or not) but a woman's arm or sword strategically placed on the cover DOES NOT show nudity. Also, regarding timing of these listings, I paid close attention to that as well. Some listings, by large, medium and small dealers had just begun, some close to ending. Of course some of the listings close to ending (by all dealers) did not have time to get pulled. Sometimes the ones with 10 or less hours I would not even report. Big or small, six days left, I reported them together and the little guys went "poof" and the big guys were left alone. Below are three listings all from very large dealers. I am not bothering with my policing anymore but if anyone wants to take a shot at these then go ahead. The first two are 100% crossing the line and breaking Ebay's adult content rules. The third one has used careful wording in order to hopefully get away with it, but we all know what it really is. To see more of these make sure to hit the tab so that your search pulls up these key words in the descriptions as well as the headline.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2222897386&category=3983

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2224012340&category=3979

 

This one is questionable, may or may not have crossed the line. This seller was very careful with his wording:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2224014147&category=77

 

Have fun-------Sid

[BassGMan]

Oh, what the hell? I just reported the three large dealers that I mentioned above as well as the two small dealers that Darth mentioned above. Let's see what happens. A few things to consider: the first of the large dealers that I reported (the top listing) was a UK listing. The UK is alot tougher and from my experiences has ended all listings that I reported, from all dealers large and small. But let's see what happens to the other two biggies. Of the two little guys that Darth found, the second one only had seven hours to go, may not be enough time to get pulled. Also, most people probably already know this but Ebay depends on it's users to report violations. The reason some listings do not get pulled that are breaking ANY of the rules is simply because no one has "turned them in". Let's keep a watch here and see what happens, should be fun. We'll be able to tell just by clicking on the links above. ------Sid

[Darthdiesel]

followup - one of the ones I pointed out ended but the seller has all his nudes in the original comic art area:

 

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=arteest111&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

 

Which no matter how nice I think they are still crosses the line, IMO. AS for the Avatar book with the Dominatrix scene on the cover - no blatant nudity, but a mature title. I asked something simliar earlier about this scenario - Marvel MAx books, Vertigo - all adult oriented comics - should they go in the adult categories regardless of any overt pornographic content displayed on the cover?

 

BTW - all 5 of our "offending" auctions are still up...

[DiceX]

Darth,

 

Don't you worry that your son may kick your [!@#%^&^] when he gets older?

He is cute, but c'mon.

I get mad at my mom for showing pics of me nekkid in the bathtub when I was a baby!

[BassGMan]

Sometimes it takes a day or two to get pulled, especially on a Sunday they may be slow or just not pullin' at all. Here is another one I just reported by another large dealer.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2223666441&category=77

 

 

[BassGMan]

Oh yeah, with the Marvel MAX titles, I am not totally familiar with those although I did buy a few of those Howard The Duck issues. I think those books are safe, at least the ones I have seen. Although mature and somewhat adult oriented, I don't think they are blatant sex books. It is certainly OK on Ebay to post VERY sexy, alluring and provacative photos and art, as long as it does not contain any actual nudity. I understand the crotch stuff, but breasts, Janet Jackson, GEEZ!!! Sure, it's OK to show a decapitation or arms and legs being blown off or any degree of comic book violence, but show a breast??? My GOD, SHOW A BREAST? It is harming our children and I am just so offended by all this. C'mon, we need a break. Or sumthin'. Nuttin' wrong wit' boobs I tell ya'.----Sid

[BassGMan]

They're being slow with pulling the listings right now. But believe me, some of these will get pulled within the next day or two. Just keep watchin'. -----Sid