Here we go again - Guy trying to sell Tec 47 as better grade after de-slabbing.

[Bat-Man]

I like orange juice (thumbs u

 

High pulp.

 

[G.A.tor]

slightly b"r"itter is my fav

[hockey&comicsguy]

Always the contrarian, eh Tim?

 

How would YOU feel if you bought a raw Duck that the seller listed at 9.6, only to find out later that CGC had graded it 7.0 with slight brittleness?

 

Like it or not, CGC is the accepted standard in the hobby and their grading is indeed "relevant". Duh.

 

One Big Name dealer is infamous for buying slabs from Heritage, and then de-slabbing them while bumping up the grades significantly and/or not disclosing restoration. That certainly sits well with the customer, huh?

 

"It's just an opinion..."

 

Steve,

 

I respect your opinion tremendously,but here is why I am offering an opposing view.

 

CGC's grade is absolutely just their opinion,and subjective.Says so on the back of every label.Granted it is the most respected and accepted in our hobby,but still it is just an opinion.They do not deal in absolutes.You can send a book in to them several times and receive differing grades/page qualities.My problem is this: What if you send a book in to be graded that you'd like to sell and are not happy with the grade upon it's return.You cannot send it to another grading company as there is no legit competition.So you may at that point want to crack it out and sell it raw at the grade you feel is correct.What is wrong with this?What other choice do you have,other than sending it back to CGC again.

 

How many boardie GA collectors have purchased a book from a dealer because they thought it was under graded, to later(immediately) sell for a profit at a higher grade? Does anyone really think that a seller should be required to disclose the previous dealer grade of a raw book they are currently selling?Why is it any different if it was once slabbed? I believe flipping is an integral part of our hobby,and helps many collectors fund their collecting.It is also a lot of fun to use your hard earned knowledge of the hobby to make a profit now and again.

 

I guess at the end of the day,I just don't see anything wrong with cracking a book and selling it raw at a slightly different grade.Of course if as you say someone is selling purple books as unrestored,or consistently raising grades by a large margin,then I would absolutely avoid them,as they're being dishonest.I am all for full disclosure pertaining to restoration/pressing,but I don't think it's reasonable to want sellers to disclose prior grades CGC or otherwise.

 

 

I don't have any problem with people cracking out books and giving their own grade. I do have a problem when they don't disclose that the book has already been graded by CGC and provide the details.

 

CGC may just be an opinion. But they're widely recognized as the expert opinion. Not you or me or any other dealer, no matter how good that dealer's reputation for grading is.

 

Getting an "expert" opinion from CGC, having resto check, making customers fell safer by selling them certified books, etc......it's all good. So IMO, it's wrong to conveniently leave out the fact that a book has been graded by CGC already just because one disagrees with their opinion. If everybody cracked out every book they disagreed with, WTF would be the point of any of this?

 

If a seller wants to disagree, then disagree. But disclose what CGC had to say about the book.

[Bat-Man]

Always the contrarian, eh Tim?

 

How would YOU feel if you bought a raw Duck that the seller listed at 9.6, only to find out later that CGC had graded it 7.0 with slight brittleness?

 

Like it or not, CGC is the accepted standard in the hobby and their grading is indeed "relevant". Duh.

 

One Big Name dealer is infamous for buying slabs from Heritage, and then de-slabbing them while bumping up the grades significantly and/or not disclosing restoration. That certainly sits well with the customer, huh?

 

"It's just an opinion..."

 

Steve,

 

I respect your opinion tremendously,but here is why I am offering an opposing view.

 

CGC's grade is absolutely just their opinion,and subjective.Says so on the back of every label.Granted it is the most respected and accepted in our hobby,but still it is just an opinion.They do not deal in absolutes.You can send a book in to them several times and receive differing grades/page qualities.My problem is this: What if you send a book in to be graded that you'd like to sell and are not happy with the grade upon it's return.You cannot send it to another grading company as there is no legit competition.So you may at that point want to crack it out and sell it raw at the grade you feel is correct.What is wrong with this?What other choice do you have,other than sending it back to CGC again.

 

How many boardie GA collectors have purchased a book from a dealer because they thought it was under graded, to later(immediately) sell for a profit at a higher grade? Does anyone really think that a seller should be required to disclose the previous dealer grade of a raw book they are currently selling?Why is it any different if it was once slabbed? I believe flipping is an integral part of our hobby,and helps many collectors fund their collecting.It is also a lot of fun to use your hard earned knowledge of the hobby to make a profit now and again.

 

I guess at the end of the day,I just don't see anything wrong with cracking a book and selling it raw at a slightly different grade.Of course if as you say someone is selling purple books as unrestored,or consistently raising grades by a large margin,then I would absolutely avoid them,as they're being dishonest.I am all for full disclosure pertaining to restoration/pressing,but I don't think it's reasonable to want sellers to disclose prior grades CGC or otherwise.

 

 

I don't have any problem with people cracking out books and giving their own grade. I do have a problem when they don't disclose that the book has already been graded by CGC and provide the details.

 

CGC may just be an opinion. But they're widely recognized as the expert opinion. Not you or me or any other dealer, no matter how good that dealer's reputation for grading is.

 

Getting an "expert" opinion from CGC, having resto check, making customers fell safer by selling them certified books, etc......it's all good. So IMO, it's wrong to conveniently leave out the fact that a book has been graded by CGC already just because one disagrees with their opinion. If everybody cracked out every book they disagreed with, WTF would be the point of any of this?

 

If a seller wants to disagree, then disagree. But disclose what CGC had to say about the book.

 

(thumbs u

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

(thumbs u

 

He's selling a Captain Marvel #51, CGC 9.0. He doesn't seem to have any problem promoting the fact that it's CGC graded (says so right in his auction title). Mentions it again in the listing. Mentions "no returns" on CGC graded books? Why no returns on CGC I wonder. Because you know what you're getting with a certified book right.

 

Yet not a peep about the Tec 47 being previously graded.

 

Nobody has to twist my arm to get me to believe this is clearly a case of the guy trying to make a profit by massaging the grade and pq on a book. And by doing it without disclosure. This thing reeks to the high heavens. A simple disagreement on grade? Yeah, right.

 

He's a ing turd imo.

 

 

[Bat-Man]

 

(thumbs u

 

He's selling a Captain Marvel #51, CGC 9.0. He doesn't seem to have any problem promoting the fact that it's CGC graded (says so right in his auction title). Mentions it again in the listing. Mentions "no returns" on CGC graded books? Why no returns on CGC I wonder. Because you know what you're getting with a certified book right.

 

Yet not a peep about the Tec 47 being previously graded.

 

Nobody has to twist my arm to get me to believe this is clearly a case of the guy trying to make a profit by massaging the grade and pq on a book. And by doing it without disclosure. This thing reeks to the high heavens. A simple disagreement on grade? Yeah, right.

 

He's a ing turd imo.

 

 

 

 

 

The reason I thought I should post the thread. To help potential bidders.

 

I was a bout to bid until I had a feeling I saw that book somewhere before.

 

It's just absurd.

 

[mikephoen]

People buy raw books on ebay?

 

[Bat-Man]

People buy raw books on ebay?

 

 

 

 

 

I agree it is "insane" to buy raw books on eBay these days!

[ciorac]

I like orange juice (thumbs u

 

I hate it. Gives me heartburn

[Bat-Man]

People buy raw books on ebay?

 

 

 

 

 

I agree it is "insane" to buy raw books on eBay these days!

 

 

 

But I still do it.........ALOT!

[Allen James]

Anybody know what the graders at CGC did before they started there?

[adamstrange]

Anybody know what the graders at CGC did before they started there?

Steve Borock was a sophisticated collector and then a dealer. Mark Haspel was a dealer who also occasionally put together auctions. West Stephan was/is a sophisticated collector.

[Bat-Man]

Anybody know what the graders at CGC did before they started there?

Steve Borock was a sophisticated collector and then a dealer. Mark Haspel was a dealer who also occasionally put together auctions. West Stephan was/is a sophisticated collector.

 

 

I do not know those men personally but I greatly respect them for what they have done with CGC. It is a godsend.

[Allen James]

Alright, not a trick question, you guys can stop trying to dig up the resumes.

 

Point is, they bought and sold through the pages of CBG and convention boxes like the rest of us. I love em to death and think they are an asset to the hobby but I've never been able to put them up on that pedestal that they are superior to everyone because they work there. It's job like anything else, at some point any of us could be doing the same thing.

 

Ten years in and they're still fairly new considering the hobby. There's way more raw books than graded and I don't want to see us in another ten years not being able to sell any book unless its graded.

 

I think competition is good and shouldn't be trashed all the time. Anybody that's got all the power and their word is law would rule everything without question and that would just suck.

 

All this is not inclusive of crooks that break them out for alternative reasons.

[Bat-Man]

Again this thread is not about raw books being bad. Just about a bad seller on eBay.

 

 

I have more raw books than CGC'd

[tth2]

If a seller bumps a grade, enhances PQ, doesn't disclose identified brittleness, doesn't disclose restoration, etc., especially where profit margins are involved, then that smacks of shady dealing, sorry.

 

Seriously - we've all bought stuff before, and all been burned before. So aren't we sick and tired of that by now? I know I am.

 

In my humble opition, it's time to stop making rationalizations and to start embracing Full Disclosure.That includes revealing CGC's grade and PQ when a book is de-slabbed, whether you agree with it or not.

 

Sorry to sound like a soap box, but this is such an important issue and is the exact reason why Full Disclosure cannot be compromised or excused away.

Where does it end, Steve? Does every seller have to disclose the grade given by every big time collector/dealer who owned it along the way? Why only CGC? What if it was sold to me by Borock or West pre-CGC? Because they subsequently became integral parts of the CGC team, are their grades material since they presumably applied the same grading standards at CGC that they did in their prior lives?

[Allen James]

True, true. Sorry to get off on a tangent, it rubs me all funny when the word expert gets thrown out there so much. To me, my reputation is as good as CGC. My books aren't going to transform the hobby but if you know me and deal with me you'll know you're gettin what you wanted and that goes for so many more of us.

 

Damn I ramble. Sorry.

 

Point of the thread: Bad sellers bad. Good sellers good.

 

Nuff said

 

[Bat-Man]

True, true. Sorry to get off on a tangent, it rubs me all funny when the word expert gets thrown out there so much. To me, my reputation is as good as CGC. My books aren't going to transform the hobby but if you know me and deal with me you'll know you're gettin what you wanted and that goes for so many more of us.

 

Damn I ramble. Sorry.

 

Point of the thread: Bad sellers bad. Good sellers good.

 

Nuff said

 

 

Yes!

[Offbeat Archives]

True, true. Sorry to get off on a tangent, it rubs me all funny when the word expert gets thrown out there so much. To me, my reputation is as good as CGC. My books aren't going to transform the hobby but if you know me and deal with me you'll know you're gettin what you wanted and that goes for so many more of us.

 

Damn I ramble. Sorry.

 

Point of the thread: Bad sellers bad. Good sellers good.

 

Nuff said

 

 

[Point Five]

Might as well post this here too.

 

"dukes1collectibles" on ebay has been quite a busy bee.

 

Because "grading is subjective",

 

this mouse-chewed Fair/Good Marvel Mystery #43 sold to him last week:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARVEL-MYSTERY-COMICS-43-TIMELY-1943-FAIR-GOOD-1-5_W0QQitemZ370338245118QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5639e129fe

 

... is now being sold by him as a GVG:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marvel-Comic-43-WWII-Torch-Cover-Golden-Age_W0QQitemZ310205122499QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4839aa87c3

 

(back cover has been carefully cropped to hide the worst of the damage)

 

 

He's had a similar revelation with this Fair/Good Marvel Mystery #48 sold to him last week:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARVEL-MYSTERY-COMICS-48-TIMELY-1943-FAIR-GOOD-1-5_W0QQitemZ370338245984QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5639e12d60

 

now listed as a GVG in his current auction:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marvel-Comic-48-WWII-Torch-Cover-Golden-Age_W0QQitemZ310205122780QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4839aa88dc

 

 

Be careful out there, folks.