Recession, What Recession?

[Artemaria]

Hi Gang -

 

Have been following these boards, although I haven't posted in awhile.

 

Unemployment remains at a reported 10% (with unofficial estimates at 16% or more) and yet, the interrim bidding on a couple of eBay auctions seems to indicate that demand for certain Bronze age pieces is at an all time high . . . .

 

one Sal Buscema -

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170457968906

 

and one by John Romita -

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360242822511

 

The Buscema cover bidding seems really strong for such a cover and the current bidding on the Romita splash rivals the prices of some of his covers.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks as always.

 

- A

[Nexus]

Unless the reserves are met, the bids mean nothing. The seller will gladly tell you what the reserves are if you ask. I wouldn't necessarily take the current bids seriously, even at that dollar level. They could very well be thrill bids since the bidders likely know they are bidding under the reserve.

[Weird Paper]

Both these pieces are seriously over-priced. Plus, they apparently have absurd reserves, indicating, to me, a seller who is just fishing and trying to stretch values without actually selling.

The cover is pretty nice, but to me it's right at peak value at 16k. The splash page is absurd, but apparently worth it to somebody with very deep pockets. Neither of these could be considered an investment at these prices, but rather a collectible hot potato.

This over-valuing of unremarkable art is the sort of behavior that will crash the market.

[stinkininkin]

Unless the reserves are met, the bids mean nothing. The seller will gladly tell you what the reserves are if you ask. I wouldn't necessarily take the current bids seriously, even at that dollar level. They could very well be thrill bids since the bidders likely know they are bidding under the reserve.

 

Exactly. NEVER NEVER NEVER take the temperature of a pieces value based on internet bidding before a reserve is met and the sale finalized.

 

Scott Williams

 

 

[bocaratondefense]

I love the combination of Spidey, DD and Namor on the Daredevil cover. Not everyone loves early bronze Marvel, and in another thread, some posters said they prefer have strip art or Frazetta panels. Fair enough. But if you like late-1960s / early-1970s Marvel, then both of these are excellent examples.

 

Recession or no recession, people are still spending real money on comic art, both privately and on ebay and Heritage. Unfortunately I am not one of them.

[nkatradis]

Artemis, those two auctions stink so bad, it reminded me of the 3 refrigerators that we have to empty today from all the spoiled food!

 

Let me explain: I live in Tenafly, NJ, Bergen County, where we got devastated by the storm. We just got power back today at 3:07pm and I helped my wife, Demi, clean out the fridges and throw out all the food in them that had spoiled since Saturday's power outage in my area. Some of it stunk so bad, I almost vomited.

 

I dont know what the intent of the seller (s) is for the Buscema and Romita auctions by brianhowardart.

 

If the seller of the Buscema cover got $12-15k privately, they would be quite happy. so if the reserve is not met at $16k+, then something very funny is afoot!

 

If the seller of the romita splash received $32k for that splash, i think they would be skipping down the street. Instead, the reserve is not met!

 

ps: GCD is down or I would check to see if the splash to asm #52 was even done by romita; it may have been romita layouts with Heck pencils!

 

Any pigeons out there? Only time will tell.

 

nk

[Weird Paper]

I see no Heck in that page--it's Romita and Esposito. But these auctions do have a distinct fragrance.

 

Sorry about your mess.

[NelsonAI]

Wanna know what I think of the auctions? ....... E-mail me now !!!!!!

 

 

Welcome back Nick.

Cheers!

N.

 

 

 

[Weird Paper]

Interesting... the Buscema cover has dropped back down about 10k...

[nkatradis]

and miraculously, the sal buscema DD #77 cover came back to $6,200.

 

for that price, i will take it! wrap it up!

 

these must be like reverse mortgages.

 

they are "reverse auctions"

 

nk

[comix4fun]

and miraculously, the sal buscema DD #77 cover came back to $6,200.

 

for that price, i will take it! wrap it up!

 

these must be like reverse mortgages.

 

they are "reverse auctions"

 

nk

 

 

 

It looks like bidder d***r (240) felt his bid was being shilled up by s***q (173)...these are the bids between the retracted $16,100 bid at the top by d***r and the $6,100 bid by d***r at the bottom.

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:14:49 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:14:39 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:14:25 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:14:16 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:14:05 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:13:56 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:13:46 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:13:37 PDT

 

s***q( 173Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,200.00

Mar-16-10 05:13:27 PDT

 

d***r( 240Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $6,100.00

Mar-17-10 23:17:38 PDT

 

and that explains what's going on right now I think.

 

[BrianHoward]

Hey Guys..

 

I feel that I must comment and clear up some pretty glaring misconceptions and some pretty damaging false implications, which have been laid out here.

 

My name is Brian Howard Schutzer... I am an owner of Neat Stuff Collectibles, LLC as well as an art collector/investor/dealer.... I do business with Original Art under the name Brianhowardart.

 

I think many people on these boards and in the hobby know me pretty well and have done business with me. Despite the implications laid forth in this thread, I don't play games with my auctions and I handle myself professionally.

 

I personally own both of the pieces being discussed in this thread... They are not on consignment; they are my property alone... Being as such, I get to decide what it's worth for me to part with them. I purchase pieces for resale and for collecting. Thankfully I am not in the position where I need to pay my bills by selling OA so if I put a special piece out for sale I will not sell it unless it's worth it to me. Now that may mean I want a price higher than you would pay... But that doesn't mean there is anything "smelly", fishy or otherwise...

 

I've seen the comparisons to other pieces and opinions on what people would like to see these sold at... Obviously I disagree with the comps (most of which were highly irrelevant IMO) and personal opinions on value that have been stated so far... Regarding the ASM splash, I have heard of covers selling over the past 2 years at $100,000 ++... Considering that, I really didn't feel that asking around 1/3 +/- of the prices attained for a Romita Sr. ASM cover was out of line.

 

I make it very clear in my auctions that I am 100% open to revealing my reserves... I do this so that anyone who places a bid has an opportunity to know what it will take to meet my reserve... My cell phone number and email are in every auction. I'm happy to discuss anything with collectors and I try to put myself out there to prevent the kind of rampant speculation and keyboard warriorship that can do unjustified damage to one's name and business.

 

The comment that the ASM piece may not even be Romita Sr. pencils was 100% untrue and frankly quite irresponsible... This is a simple matter that really should have been confirmed before casting such aspersions.

 

If anyone here would like to discuss the mindset of the owner of these pieces (me), Please feel free to call me or email... The info is in my auctions...

 

p.s. - yes, the high bidder on the DD cover retracted their 16k bid last night... This happened, coincidentally enough, very shortly after this thread was made... I hope it had nothing to do with the attempts to cast aspersions on me and my auctions...

 

 

Brian

[comix4fun]

 

p.s. - yes, the high bidder on the DD cover retracted their 16k bid last night... This happened, coincidentally enough, very shortly after this thread was made... I hope it had nothing to do with the attempts to cast aspersions on me and my auctions...

 

 

Brian

 

 

 

I don't think this thread had anything to do with it, it most likely had something to do with all the bids by the same bidder within seconds of each other driving the price up $10,000.

 

That's not your fault at all. Whomever is putting in those bids is putting doubt into the retracting bidder's mind as to what the other bidder's motives are.

 

I know that when I bid on an item if I feel like someone is putting in "punishment bids" or "thrill bids" to drive up my bid to its maximum I would feel compelled to retract my bid as well.

 

That has nothing to do with you, of course, but it's something that you should be aware of.

 

Best,

Chris

[BrianHoward]

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for your comments... By the tone of this thread, I was feeling that some here were trying to imply this did have something to do with me... I really do appreciate the clarification on your part..

 

You're right.. I can't control the bidders' behavior and there is a bidder who has placed a series of bids.. One can look at that as thrill bids or it can also be a bidder trying to trip the reserve... Clearly others will claim it's "fishy" or suspicions.. I would prefer the bidder place their best bid and leave it at that, but there isn't anything I can do about it..

 

I understand that you don't think that this thread had anything to with it.. I really hope you're right but I doubt it... I know firsthand what damage baseless accusations and implications in threads like this can do. Considering that, I don't share your opinion on it's impact..

[Nexus]

Just wanted to chime in and say I know Brian personally. He's been very stand-up and straight-forward in all my dealings with him. As far as dealers go, I trust him (damning with faint praise, I know:P). I don't believe he is shill-bidding his own auctions. So I don't believe there is anything "fishy" in that respect.

 

However, I also believe that by revealing the reserve (which is his right to do), he opens the door for thrill bidding. If anyone isn't paying attention, then they may think that there is actual interest at that dollar level. Thus the thrill bids can raise perceived market value, even if the reserve isn't hit. That's what started this whole thread...the OP thought the bids were an actual reflection of market value. They are not.

 

Finally, in no-reserve auctions, the bidding happens at the end. Very rarely do you see max bids so early in the auction. Snipes are the rule. Another indication to me, given the aggressive bidding under the KNOWN reserve, that these were thrill bids.

 

 

[Weird Paper]

I know firsthand what damage baseless accusations and implications in threads like this can do. Considering that, I don't share your opinion on it's impact..

 

I think you overestimate the reach of this thread in this venue. All things considered, the art thread here is not particularly active. This is not like somebody raised these questins on CAF. Also, I don't think anyone was implying that you were shilling your own auctions. I believe Felix's take on the situation seems pretty viable.

That said, I think when you put something in a public auction, at a reserve which is going to be considered excessive by most people, you leave yourself open to this sort of discussion. It's just human nature.

[westform]

I think you may be underestimating this thread in this venue; there are not so many online discussions of comicart that those interested can't follow them. And, if you are willing to shell out 5 figures for comic art you qualify as interested...

 

Having said that, I also know Brian from previous deals and from my experience he is straight forward and a standup guy. Yes, revealing reserve price can lead to 'thrill' bidding, but as someone who asked the reserve it is also really nice to know when budgeting as a collector.

 

And, yes, it may open you up to discussion when you price aggressively and/or with an unmet reserve, but I can say to my eye and with no pony in the race, that it is a kicka$$ cover. I guess I am ponied up a little though as I like Bronze age Marvel Superhero covers and I like Sal!

[theloveforart]

Dan, i totally agree with you, there are a few old bones on here trying to impose their thoughts on people by bashing other collectors pages and art. They are the same select few that are anti bronze age that ONLY care about comic art from a era that has long been forgotten... and personally no one really cares about anymore.

cheers

Raul

[funkyj00ky]

I always see the same thing once a week on these boards - a thread indirectly attacking sellers for their asking prices on art and/or comics. Its great that there is a place to throw opinions around, but accusations - especially against a man of Brian's caliber just aren't warranted. Its getting stale, not "rotten" to see another "his asking price is ridiculous" on here. I think i have an X-force #1 for every time i've seen this...

[bocaratondefense]

Yes, revealing reserve price can lead to 'thrill' bidding, but as someone who asked the reserve it is also really nice to know when budgeting as a collector.

 

 

I asked about these pieces as well and appreciate Brian revealing the reserve. With that information, I can assess immediately whether I am in the game or not. My dealings with Brian have been excellent;several large deals and everything has alway been straightforward.

 

That said, Felix summed it up the best about the potential pitfalls of revealing the reserve to everyone. If thrill bidder-types know the reserve, there is nothing stopping them from bidding continuously without having to make the purchase. That is not Brian's fault at all of course, but I am not sure what the solution is to discourage this. Perhaps not revealing the reserve at all?