Return Policies

[Bosco685]

Seriously, you need to work on the self esteem issues.

 

Besides, the world revolves around me so step aside.

 

Now you know he is going to run to Louise and cry on her shoulder after this.

[MCMiles]

Can I ask who the seller is? If you don't want to say in public a PM would be nice. I want to avoid a hassle like this.

 

Actually, my post this morning was the result of seeing "Satisfaction Guaranteed" in a sales thread. Which reminded me of a waste of time and money a few weeks back. I bought a couple of inexpensive books. I wasn't thrilled with the grading, but it was close enough. then I flipped one over to find a flaw that took it well out of advertised grade IMO. I knew the seller didn't refund shipping, so I wasn't going to bother sending it back and ultimately have more in the books then they are worth. However, I did think I should mention it to the seller, who then proceeded to disagree with my assesment. Which is fine, I just won't buy from that seller anymore. I didn't want or expect a refund or anything else, but an apology instead of a debate would have insured my business in the future.

 

Just recently I had an excellent experience with another seller. He missed something on a book and took it back with an apology, and no hassels. Even volunteered the shipping refund....That's the way it should be.

 

[campued1010]

"Satisfaction Guaranteed"

 

If you're going to make that statement, then back it up.

 

Buying an overgraded book from someone hyping their strict grading, and receiving something less than expected is bad enough. Adding to the hassel is having to get in to a debate over why you disagree with the grade.

 

If you are confident in your grading and offer a "satisfaction guaranteed" return policy. Then don't even discuss it with the buyer, just take the return, and be cool about it.

 

Also, what's with the buyer expecting to eat the shipping on a return? Sure there are people that will just cost you money here and there for various reasons by returning books they should not really return. In my experience that rarely happens though, and a good seller should chalk it up as part of the cost of doing business.

 

If you're going to offer "satisfaction guaranteed" then make it that way. Who wants to pay $5 - $10 shipping both ways just to return a book that was less than expected. Especially anything that costs less then $100.

 

...and skip the debate, excuses, and partial refund BS. Just take the return back, refund the money, and be a good seller.

 

END

 

Totally agree with you Mike. While I'm not a dealer, I always offer a return if not happy. Last sale of Hulk 181, buyer contacted me and said he had a 8.0 that looked better than the 8.5 I sold him. He shipped it back in the same manner and I issued a full refund. I will say this, the buyer when returning the book should have the common decency to pack the book in a similar manner as he/she received it ... is not always the case

[blazingbob]

I agree with the below statement but since the "Customer is always right" sellers should eat their comments also.

 

I got a CGC book returned recently. Sent it in a box, came back in a padded envelope, no cardboard around the book, nicely cracked in multiple places.

 

 

I will say this, the buyer when returning the book should have the common decency to pack the book in a similar manner as he/she received it ... is not always the case

 

 

[GACollectibles]

I agree with the below statement but since the "Customer is always right" sellers should eat their comments also.

 

I got a book returned recently. Sent it in a box, came back in a padded envelope, no cardboard around the book, nicely cracked in multiple places.

 

 

I will say this, the buyer when returning the book should have the common decency to pack the book in a similar manner as he/she received it ... is not always the case

 

 

I didn't know books could crack....unless extremely brittle.

[GACollectibles]

If we're talking about a blatant error like C-Mack is mentioning, then certainly the seller needs to cover all costs to make this right. I'm undecided about requiring someone to cover slabbing fees but a full return on the item's sale price and shipping for sure.

 

Now, if someone disagrees with the grading and we're talking about a minor difference in grading, I honestly don't believe the seller needs to cover the shipping costs. If the grade is legitimately arguable--say sold as a 9.2 and the buyer believes it's more like a 9.0, well, then it's on the buyer to cover the return because I do feel there is going to be some margin of difference between how two people grade and that sort of difference says to me that the dealer was within a reasonable tolerance of error. In that case, refunding the full sale price should be a given however I see no obligation to refund shipping costs as well. Sure, it'd be great if every seller undergraded but that's just not the reality we experience.

 

I'm guessing though Mike, we're not talking about one single step in grading difference though which does make a significant difference (since it removes the seller from being within that reasonable margin of error). Sorry for the frustrating experience!

 

*Edit* I typically only buy from other collectors or people here on the boards and NOT any of the big dealer (again, unless those dealers sell here on the boards), SO that could probably skew my view on this issue since I'm not directly addressing businesses but fellow collectors.

 

Other than undisclosed restoration issues there shouldn't be any claim for refund if books are sent to CGC and come back a different grade. Buyer should determine whether advertised grade is acceptable unless seller guarantees a CGC grade or grade range. Otherwise CGC is just another opinion on a grade.

[drbanner]

Hmm, there are only a couple new sales threads with "satisfaction guaranteed" explicitly listed, and 2 of them are mine.

 

The others I see are campued's and picky's (who does clearly state the buyer is responsible for return shipping).

 

Now, with the shameful plug out of the way I will say I agree with Mac Man. I think there's a difference in who should pay for shipping when returning a book where the seller missed a missing MVS or something like that versus a grading disagreement of 1 grade step, they're not happy with the PQ, or some other minor disagreement, etc.

 

Case in point - Metropolis states (or used to) that buyers have to pay for return shipping, but I actually got them to pick up the return shipping on a book a few years ago where they missed blatant restoration on a GA Marvel Mystery. The worst of it was, I called them and Frank(?) took the book out of the bag and described it to me over the phone...the restoration was quite obvious, and I couldn't believe it when I got the book.

[8milemax]

I agree with the below statement but since the "Customer is always right" sellers should eat their comments also.

 

I got a book returned recently. Sent it in a box, came back in a padded envelope, no cardboard around the book, nicely cracked in multiple places.

 

 

I will say this, the buyer when returning the book should have the common decency to pack the book in a similar manner as he/she received it ... is not always the case

 

 

Opps sorry Bob I didn't think that the Batman #1 would get ruined

[Transplant]

they look 9.2 but i didnt know much about tanning and how much cgc down grades it.. ...so they were knock down hard...i did ask about it when i looked inside the book but he told me its not a big deal and then reminded me i COULD bring them back so i thought i had nothing to lose.....but then this happen

You should really talk to Richard in person. Hard to believe he'd screw you over like that, but he is an Astros fan, so you have to assume something bad will happen.

[c-mack]

they look 9.2 but i didnt know much about tanning and how much cgc down grades it.. ...so they were knock down hard...i did ask about it when i looked inside the book but he told me its not a big deal and then reminded me i COULD bring them back so i thought i had nothing to lose.....but then this happen

You should really talk to Richard in person. Hard to believe he'd screw you over like that, but he is an Astros fan, so you have to assume something bad will happen.

 

 

 

it 100% wasnt richard.. i wouldnt be having this problem if i got these from him...thats one guy WHO 100% STANDS BY HIS BOOKS....just some joke shop that is right by my house...who i was told had some tos books...

[G.A.tor]

I can't remember the last time I bought a raw book & was happy with the assigned grade.

 

Being that the books I buy are usually under $50....I very rarely return books for a refund. I usually just keep the book & avoid the seller in the future.

wow...I have never sold a raw book and not had the buyer happy with the grade... in fact, Nik and I became friends because every book I sold him, he though was undergraded .5 to 1.0 +, and we just hit it off from there... so, there are some good graders still out there (thumbs u

 

but, if you guarantee satisfaction, simply back it up !

[pickycollector]

Hmm, there are only a couple new sales threads with "satisfaction guaranteed" explicitly listed, and 2 of them are mine.

 

The others I see are campued's and picky's (who does clearly state the buyer is responsible for return shipping).

 

Now, with the shameful plug out of the way I will say I agree with Mac Man. I think there's a difference in who should pay for shipping when returning a book where the seller missed a missing MVS or something like that versus a grading disagreement of 1 grade step, they're not happy with the PQ, or some other minor disagreement, etc.

 

Case in point - Metropolis states (or used to) that buyers have to pay for return shipping, but I actually got them to pick up the return shipping on a book a few years ago where they missed blatant restoration on a GA Marvel Mystery. The worst of it was, I called them and Frank(?) took the book out of the bag and described it to me over the phone...the restoration was quite obvious, and I couldn't believe it when I got the book.

 

Well, since I'm one of the three sellers whom offer a return policy with the words "satisfaction guaranteed" but I am the one that does not refund shipping costs, it looks obvious that this thread is about me. I did contact MCMiles through PM to confirm if he was refering in this thread about the DD #95 that he bought from me a few months ago for $14 and that he thought was rather a 8.0 while I did grade it as 8.5. He did confirm. He also bought another book from me (a Cap #241 for $20) and shipping cost was $7 for those two books.

 

Here are the PM's that we did exchange in November 2009:

 

Me :

 

Hi,

 

Did you receive the books ? Please LMK

 

Patrick

 

MCMiles:

 

Yes, I did.

 

BTW, it's not worth a return, but the DD has a pretty good size crease from a corner fold on the back cover, which I believes makes it fall short of you assigned grade. No big deal, but if it were me I would want to know.

 

Me:

 

Sorry about that, I think the grade I gave to the DD #95 was VF+, is that correct ?

 

MCMIles:

 

Yes, that is correct. Still a nice book, just a little short IMO with a hard crease about 3" long.

 

No big deal.

 

Me:

 

I have seen two CGC books with creases like that on back cover on otherwise flawless books (one is an Avengers #47 which I still own) that did receive a grade of 8.5, which is why I gave the DD such a grade, but grading is not a science indeed. Which grade would you give it then ?

 

MCMiles:

 

No better than an 8.0, but to be honest, if I were selling it I would mention a significant flaw.

Again, it's not a big deal.

 

Me:

 

Thanks for the feedback, I will consider it.

 

Nowhere did he mention that he did want to return the book and the first thing I did was to apologize ("Sorry about that...") when he said that he was not completely happy with the comic.

 

If you buy a book from me and you are not happy for any reason, you can return it and I will refund your money for the book as clearly described in all my FS threads. I am a responsible and talkeable person and I will work with you if you are not happy with a purchase. But in order to do so, you need first to tell me that you do want to return the book.

 

I want to treat my customers the same way I want to be treated when I buy books. I bought a few books here from some of you and I had to return some. When it did happen, I always did tell the seller first through a PM that I was not happy and that I did want to return the book that I was not happy with and all sellers did work something with me (either a refund or partial refund). I never had to go through a public forum to complain. That would be unfair for the seller without trying to work something with him first.

[MCMiles]

Alrighty then.

 

Thanks drbanner. I've officially entered in to a debate that I suspected wasn't worth the time in the first place. I owe you one.

 

First and foremost, Patrick did apologize when I PMed that I wasn't happy with one of the books. My post earlier did make it seem as though the seller in that transaction did not. I was generalizing sellers while using a specific example. I shouldn't have because that implied it as a fact to my specific example. **Which I told him via PM I would correct this before he posted the PMs publicly"

 

I am sorry that this now may have a direct impact on Patrick. The post truly was intended to be about sellers overall, and the meaning of "satisfaction guaranteed". It was not intended to on Patrick's grading.

 

I did buy two books from Patrick in that transaction. One fell in to the "range of subjectivity" and was not mentioned initially. The other had a significant flaw that was not mentioned in the description, and to me falls well out of range of 8.5 grade given. I initially clearly stated that it was not worth returning. Why would I want to pay shipping back to Canada on a $14 book? I did state "it's not a big deal" more than once. I called the book an 8.0 when he asked my opinion of the grade, although, I wouldn't have graded it that, and would have noted a significant defect that could not be seen in the scan.

 

What I'm guilty of in that PM and overall transaction, is being nice.

 

As a seller, I want to know, when I mess up so I let Patrick know about it with no intention of any refund or returning the book. I figured it was a mistake on his part, but he did go on to justify his grade. From there I figured any further conversation would be a waste of time and exited the conversation politely.

 

Patrick thinks I've been sitting on this fro months and just waiting to slam him publicly. Really, it's not the case. This came more from a recent conversation about return policies on CGC books. Yes, when I clicked on the "High Grade Daredevils" thread this morning and saw it was Pickycollector and his thread introduction and policies, It did motivate my post.

 

For me "Satisfaction Guaranteed" means just that. There really are no stipulations, except that I get the books back.

[TupennyConan]

Hey, let's all start posting PM's.

 

Maybe we could have a brand new sub-forum entitled: "PM's, the P means Public"

 

We've heard talk about the need for the search function to extend into our PM's. Well, I've gotta better idea. Why not allow one person to search another person's PM's at any given moment & without any notice between the persons?

 

This could get rich.

 

Also, is this thread strictly about Canadians? What's with that? It seems to me that Canada is almost always to blame for everything.

[greggy]

[DrWatson]

I don't think you've hurt Patrick's reputation in the least, Miles. (thumbs u

[TupennyConan]

 

[c-mack]

I don't think you've hurt Patrick's reputation in the least, Miles. (thumbs u

 

sold me a raw tos book as a 9.0 with ow pages.. came back 9.0 with ow to w...so the guy is gold in my book!

[c-mack]

but still a good topic to talk about

[DrWatson]

but still a good topic to talk about

I agree. However, I believe when you post something such as "Satisfaction Guaranteed" you should be ready to accept a return for any reason without debating whether or not the reason has validity.