Miracleman #15 - cover!

[heartened]

Hi everyone,

 

Looks like this was a real sale, from what I've heard. No one knows who the winner is yet (except, of course, the winner). I didn't win it, but did walk away with plenty, including all the key Bates pages and the #15 double page destruction sequence.

 

When push came to shove on the #15 cover, I passed. I would value it right at the reserve, honestly, but did not want to go over 50K given I already own the #13 and #14 covers. I find the above comment interesting, though, as there is no question in my mind that I'd take the #13 over the #15 any day. Except for the historic significance (which I'll grant is important!), the #13 is far more beautiful, Totleben's own well-known favorite, and (as only a few know), twice-up in size compared to all the other Totleben covers.

 

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

I thought overall was a great auction, and I'm glad perhaps more people will be able to have a piece of art from this wonderful series. Some pages went about 20-30% under "market", but some did quite well. I'm sure prices would have been higher had they not all come out at once, but that's a good think for us buyers!

 

Congrats to everyone who got a page. When you get these in person, you'll see what all the hype is about. No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

[pkveronese]

No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Agreed. Once this series is reprinted, the prices from yesterday on interiors will be a penance. This might be the key cover of the 80s (Crisis 7 & 8 come to mind as well, but historically, I think this surpasses them), so I'm comfortable with the selling price. Wish I had the 54k to drop on it . - Keith Veronese

[comix4fun]

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

 

 

Hari

 

 

Hari,

 

Congrats on the pickups...those were the choice pieces of the entire group.

 

The two pager would look great hanging in the baby's room.

 

I do have to disagree slightly about the "value" of the #15 cover being easily 2x what you paid for the #13 etc etc. I was aware of the seller's offers in the mid 40's but I was under the distinct impression that those were NOT all cash offers and had significant portions of them in trade. I didn't realize he had all cash offers that exceeded $40k. Is that true? That would be a shame then because, after removing sellers premium and buyers premium there's a chance he's netting somewhere SOUTH of $40k.

 

Also, I realize you paid those prices for those covers, and they are gorgeous covers, but those were private sales with less than motivated-to-sell sellers, correct? In an auction scenario I don't know where any of these pieces end up. Given how tightly they are held it's impossible to know. We are unlikely to see no reserve auctions on any significant cover from this run any time soon. So I don't know if it's an easy stretch from "I paid $X" to "everyone else will pay $Y".

 

You obviously had to convince the past owners to let them go. I don't know how many other people would have been able or willing to do so.

 

Even the cover to #15, that you mention "Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double." became basically a fixed price listing and the first person to meet that minimum price got it. There was no competition, and no bidding to get there in reality. Even for someone like you that saw the value, agreed with the value, and has logical grounds to defend the value did not ultimately purchase it for that price.

 

At the end of the day the cover found the one person that was willing to pay that price for it. I don't know of any other way to read the lack of competition over the reserve. The reserve certainly pushed the envelope to the limit...to the point that only one person bit.

 

All in all I think you attained several gorgeous pieces from the run, most of the significant images as well, and I think (if my math is right) for less than the cover would have cost you. That's smart buying right there.

 

Congrats,

Chris

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Agreed. Once this series is reprinted, the prices from yesterday on interiors will be a penance. This might be the key cover of the 80s (Crisis 7 & 8 come to mind as well, but historically, I think this surpasses them), so I'm comfortable with the selling price. Wish I had the 54k to drop on it . - Keith Veronese

 

Um.

 

I daresay the key cover of the 80's is actually this one:

 

 

As amazing as Miracleman is (and it is), and as amazing as Totleben's art is (and it is), there are still people who've never even seen MM #15 who actively collect Batman.

 

If there's any cover that is as well known, as iconic, as copied, and as important from the 1980's, I'd sure like to know which.

 

PERHAPS X-Men #137. MAYBE Turtles #1 (which is, itself, a parody of Miller.)

 

But MM #15..? Not even top 25. Maybe not even top 50. Death in the Family is more iconic than MM #15. Killing Joke beats it hands down.

 

And don't you mean "pittance"...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Hi everyone,

 

Looks like this was a real sale, from what I've heard. No one knows who the winner is yet (except, of course, the winner). I didn't win it, but did walk away with plenty, including all the key Bates pages and the #15 double page destruction sequence.

 

When push came to shove on the #15 cover, I passed. I would value it right at the reserve, honestly, but did not want to go over 50K given I already own the #13 and #14 covers. I find the above comment interesting, though, as there is no question in my mind that I'd take the #13 over the #15 any day. Except for the historic significance (which I'll grant is important!), the #13 is far more beautiful, Totleben's own well-known favorite, and (as only a few know), twice-up in size compared to all the other Totleben covers.

 

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

I thought overall was a great auction, and I'm glad perhaps more people will be able to have a piece of art from this wonderful series. Some pages went about 20-30% under "market", but some did quite well. I'm sure prices would have been higher had they not all come out at once, but that's a good think for us buyers!

 

Congrats to everyone who got a page. When you get these in person, you'll see what all the hype is about. No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Quick question...were you not collecting these when this cover came up for sale on eBay in 2003-2004 and sold for about $12K?

 

It seems like that would have been the time to buy it.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

 

 

Hari

 

 

Hari,

 

Congrats on the pickups...those were the choice pieces of the entire group.

 

The two pager would look great hanging in the baby's room.

 

I do have to disagree slightly about the "value" of the #15 cover being easily 2x what you paid for the #13 etc etc. I was aware of the seller's offers in the mid 40's but I was under the distinct impression that those were NOT all cash offers and had significant portions of them in trade. I didn't realize he had all cash offers that exceeded $40k. Is that true? That would be a shame then because, after removing sellers premium and buyers premium there's a chance he's netting somewhere SOUTH of $40k.

 

Also, I realize you paid those prices for those covers, and they are gorgeous covers, but those were private sales with less than motivated-to-sell sellers, correct? In an auction scenario I don't know where any of these pieces end up. Given how tightly they are held it's impossible to know. We are unlikely to see no reserve auctions on any significant cover from this run any time soon. So I don't know if it's an easy stretch from "I paid $X" to "everyone else will pay $Y".

 

You obviously had to convince the past owners to let them go. I don't know how many other people would have been able or willing to do so.

 

Even the cover to #15, that you mention "Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double." became basically a fixed price listing and the first person to meet that minimum price got it. There was no competition, and no bidding to get there in reality. Even for someone like you that saw the value, agreed with the value, and has logical grounds to defend the value did not ultimately purchase it for that price.

 

At the end of the day the cover found the one person that was willing to pay that price for it. I don't know of any other way to read the lack of competition over the reserve. The reserve certainly pushed the envelope to the limit...to the point that only one person bit.

 

All in all I think you attained several gorgeous pieces from the run, most of the significant images as well, and I think (if my math is right) for less than the cover would have cost you. That's smart buying right there.

 

Congrats,

Chris

 

 

I'm in complete agreement with this.

 

I don't pretend to understand the original art market. I follow it, which is how I knew the cover sold in 2000-2001 for $600 (and I really wish I still had the link to the page it was advertised on), and then on eBay in '03-'04 for $12K, but I don't pretend to understand it.

 

I'm fully aware of the "got to have it at any cost" factor that goes into collecting. Believe you me.

 

But when such factors are in play, how can anyone really establish a "market value" for these unique items?

 

At best, the original art market, like the fine art market, is determined solely by estimate. Trying to establish a "market price" for unique items just isn't possible.

 

But indeed, congratulations on picking up the artwork. It's beautiful stuff, indeed.

 

[heartened]

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

 

 

Hari

 

 

Hari,

 

Congrats on the pickups...those were the choice pieces of the entire group.

 

The two pager would look great hanging in the baby's room.

 

I do have to disagree slightly about the "value" of the #15 cover being easily 2x what you paid for the #13 etc etc. I was aware of the seller's offers in the mid 40's but I was under the distinct impression that those were NOT all cash offers and had significant portions of them in trade. I didn't realize he had all cash offers that exceeded $40k. Is that true? That would be a shame then because, after removing sellers premium and buyers premium there's a chance he's netting somewhere SOUTH of $40k.

 

Also, I realize you paid those prices for those covers, and they are gorgeous covers, but those were private sales with less than motivated-to-sell sellers, correct? In an auction scenario I don't know where any of these pieces end up. Given how tightly they are held it's impossible to know. We are unlikely to see no reserve auctions on any significant cover from this run any time soon. So I don't know if it's an easy stretch from "I paid $X" to "everyone else will pay $Y".

 

You obviously had to convince the past owners to let them go. I don't know how many other people would have been able or willing to do so.

 

Even the cover to #15, that you mention "Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double." became basically a fixed price listing and the first person to meet that minimum price got it. There was no competition, and no bidding to get there in reality. Even for someone like you that saw the value, agreed with the value, and has logical grounds to defend the value did not ultimately purchase it for that price.

 

At the end of the day the cover found the one person that was willing to pay that price for it. I don't know of any other way to read the lack of competition over the reserve. The reserve certainly pushed the envelope to the limit...to the point that only one person bit.

 

All in all I think you attained several gorgeous pieces from the run, most of the significant images as well, and I think (if my math is right) for less than the cover would have cost you. That's smart buying right there.

 

Congrats,

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Can't argue with your reasoning here. It is true, however, that he had cash offers over 45K. Sometimes an auction can bring out bigger hitters, so I suppose that was the hope. Doesn't always work that way, especially for a niche series that most have not read.. most of the big spenders, in fact, have probably not read it yet, as Scott Williams post points out.

 

In the end it went to the person who'd pay the most, whoever that is. In time I'm sure we'll know. I was not willing to go over 50K for it, and frankly it's because I had a cover I personally liked better. If I did not have the other covers (for example, if those previous sellers wouldn't sell them to me back then), then for sure I would have gone to the mat on this one as my "last chance".

 

Hari

 

[comix4fun]

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

 

 

Hari

 

 

Hari,

 

Congrats on the pickups...those were the choice pieces of the entire group.

 

The two pager would look great hanging in the baby's room.

 

I do have to disagree slightly about the "value" of the #15 cover being easily 2x what you paid for the #13 etc etc. I was aware of the seller's offers in the mid 40's but I was under the distinct impression that those were NOT all cash offers and had significant portions of them in trade. I didn't realize he had all cash offers that exceeded $40k. Is that true? That would be a shame then because, after removing sellers premium and buyers premium there's a chance he's netting somewhere SOUTH of $40k.

 

Also, I realize you paid those prices for those covers, and they are gorgeous covers, but those were private sales with less than motivated-to-sell sellers, correct? In an auction scenario I don't know where any of these pieces end up. Given how tightly they are held it's impossible to know. We are unlikely to see no reserve auctions on any significant cover from this run any time soon. So I don't know if it's an easy stretch from "I paid $X" to "everyone else will pay $Y".

 

You obviously had to convince the past owners to let them go. I don't know how many other people would have been able or willing to do so.

 

Even the cover to #15, that you mention "Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double." became basically a fixed price listing and the first person to meet that minimum price got it. There was no competition, and no bidding to get there in reality. Even for someone like you that saw the value, agreed with the value, and has logical grounds to defend the value did not ultimately purchase it for that price.

 

At the end of the day the cover found the one person that was willing to pay that price for it. I don't know of any other way to read the lack of competition over the reserve. The reserve certainly pushed the envelope to the limit...to the point that only one person bit.

 

All in all I think you attained several gorgeous pieces from the run, most of the significant images as well, and I think (if my math is right) for less than the cover would have cost you. That's smart buying right there.

 

Congrats,

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Can't argue with your reasoning here. It is true, however, that he had cash offers over 45K. Sometimes an auction can bring out bigger hitters, so I suppose that was the hope. Doesn't always work that way, especially for a niche series that most have not read.. most of the big spenders, in fact, have probably not read it yet, as Scott Williams post points out.

 

In the end it went to the person who'd pay the most, whoever that is. In time I'm sure we'll know. I was not willing to go over 50K for it, and frankly it's because I had a cover I personally liked better. If I did not have the other covers (for example, if those previous sellers wouldn't sell them to me back then), then for sure I would have gone to the mat on this one as my "last chance".

 

Hari

 

 

I think you did great in this auction.

 

For the dollars you spent I would have to take your entire haul over the #15 cover. The best part of MM is the story and the pieces of the story you attained are the absolute peak and climax.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I guess my question wasn't worth answering....

 

[heartened]

Hi everyone,

 

Looks like this was a real sale, from what I've heard. No one knows who the winner is yet (except, of course, the winner). I didn't win it, but did walk away with plenty, including all the key Bates pages and the #15 double page destruction sequence.

 

When push came to shove on the #15 cover, I passed. I would value it right at the reserve, honestly, but did not want to go over 50K given I already own the #13 and #14 covers. I find the above comment interesting, though, as there is no question in my mind that I'd take the #13 over the #15 any day. Except for the historic significance (which I'll grant is important!), the #13 is far more beautiful, Totleben's own well-known favorite, and (as only a few know), twice-up in size compared to all the other Totleben covers.

 

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

I thought overall was a great auction, and I'm glad perhaps more people will be able to have a piece of art from this wonderful series. Some pages went about 20-30% under "market", but some did quite well. I'm sure prices would have been higher had they not all come out at once, but that's a good think for us buyers!

 

Congrats to everyone who got a page. When you get these in person, you'll see what all the hype is about. No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Quick question...were you not collecting these when this cover came up for sale on eBay in 2003-2004 and sold for about $12K?

 

It seems like that would have been the time to buy it.

 

Hey there,

 

After your last post, I had to go back and see what you're question was (forgive me, I'm traveling this week). Back in 2003-2004 I was still in medical training. Affording it would have been tough. But, yeah, I would have if I could have.

 

To put the prices in context, I remember that sale. And at the time, I think almost the same month in fact, I bought my first Killing Joke page for 5K even. And that was a very expensive purchase for me to swallow back then. When the 12K MM #15 puchase occurred, that was a lot of money back then. Very few items had reached that level. I know it's only 6 years ago, but everything of import (or mass desire) has escalated.

 

Hari

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Hi everyone,

 

Looks like this was a real sale, from what I've heard. No one knows who the winner is yet (except, of course, the winner). I didn't win it, but did walk away with plenty, including all the key Bates pages and the #15 double page destruction sequence.

 

When push came to shove on the #15 cover, I passed. I would value it right at the reserve, honestly, but did not want to go over 50K given I already own the #13 and #14 covers. I find the above comment interesting, though, as there is no question in my mind that I'd take the #13 over the #15 any day. Except for the historic significance (which I'll grant is important!), the #13 is far more beautiful, Totleben's own well-known favorite, and (as only a few know), twice-up in size compared to all the other Totleben covers.

 

In terms of price, the #15 is worth easily in the mid-40K range, and the seller had multiple offers at that range. Just no one wanted to go over 50K. As for the guesses at 25-30K, those are mainly by people who didn't know I paid 22K for the #13 cover over 2 years ago and 13K for the #14 cover 3 years ago. Those who knew those sales would know that the #15 would have to go double.

 

I thought overall was a great auction, and I'm glad perhaps more people will be able to have a piece of art from this wonderful series. Some pages went about 20-30% under "market", but some did quite well. I'm sure prices would have been higher had they not all come out at once, but that's a good think for us buyers!

 

Congrats to everyone who got a page. When you get these in person, you'll see what all the hype is about. No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Quick question...were you not collecting these when this cover came up for sale on eBay in 2003-2004 and sold for about $12K?

 

It seems like that would have been the time to buy it.

 

Hey there,

 

After your last post, I had to go back and see what you're question was (forgive me, I'm traveling this week). Back in 2003-2004 I was still in medical training. Affording it would have been tough. But, yeah, I would have if I could have.

 

To put the prices in context, I remember that sale. And at the time, I think almost the same month in fact, I bought my first Killing Joke page for 5K even. And that was a very expensive purchase for me to swallow back then. When the 12K MM #15 puchase occurred, that was a lot of money back then. Very few items had reached that level. I know it's only 6 years ago, but everything of import (or mass desire) has escalated.

 

Hari

 

Ok, thanks for the answer. I can certainly understand "not being able to afford it."

 

I am fairly certain I put in a bid on that auction....I'm almost positive I did (there's no reason I wouldn't have, but it was a long time ago)...I was hoping it would sell for $2K or so. I was beating myself for missing it on Black Line Fever a few years earlier for $600 (it was sold before I ran across it.)

 

Yes, it was a VERY high price back then...which makes the price now even more difficult to grasp. I was shocked when the bidding went higher than $5K back then.

 

I know, I know, OA has gone crazy...but it's been crazy since the early 90's. There has to be an end somewhere, or we will soon be having routine sales in the millions....

[TMNT]

If there's any cover that is as well known, as iconic, as copied, and as important from the 1980's, I'd sure like to know which.

 

PERHAPS X-Men #137. MAYBE Turtles #1 (which is, itself, a parody of Miller.)

 

Maybe? Maybe?!

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

If there's any cover that is as well known, as iconic, as copied, and as important from the 1980's, I'd sure like to know which.

 

PERHAPS X-Men #137. MAYBE Turtles #1 (which is, itself, a parody of Miller.)

 

Maybe? Maybe?!

 

 

Showoff.

 

[Bronty]

No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Agreed. Once this series is reprinted, the prices from yesterday on interiors will be a penance. This might be the key cover of the 80s (Crisis 7 & 8 come to mind as well, but historically, I think this surpasses them), so I'm comfortable with the selling price. Wish I had the 54k to drop on it . - Keith Veronese

 

Um.

 

I daresay the key cover of the 80's is actually this one:

 

 

As amazing as Miracleman is (and it is), and as amazing as Totleben's art is (and it is), there are still people who've never even seen MM #15 who actively collect Batman.

 

If there's any cover that is as well known, as iconic, as copied, and as important from the 1980's, I'd sure like to know which.

 

PERHAPS X-Men #137. MAYBE Turtles #1 (which is, itself, a parody of Miller.)

 

But MM #15..? Not even top 25. Maybe not even top 50. Death in the Family is more iconic than MM #15. Killing Joke beats it hands down.

 

And don't you mean "pittance"...?

 

I don't think anyone is saying its the key cover of the 80s or the most valuable cover of the 80s. But it is the cover to one of the key books of the 80s and the cover to one of the more valuable books of the 80s (there's a difference in meaning there which I'm sure you can appreciate).

 

As for how much of an "iconic" image a cover is, gah who cares. I'm starting to get sick every time I hear that word!

 

Certainly there are bigger 80s covers out there but how "iconic" a cover isn't the be all and end all. There are other important valuation factors. Like being the cover to one of the greatest stories of the last 40 years, which both the MM15 and Swamp Thing 21 covers, since we're talking Moore here, no doubt benefit from. As I alluded to in another thread I'm not even sure DKR1 is the most valuable cover in its own series, despite being the best known.

[RockMyAmadeus]

No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Agreed. Once this series is reprinted, the prices from yesterday on interiors will be a penance. This might be the key cover of the 80s (Crisis 7 & 8 come to mind as well, but historically, I think this surpasses them), so I'm comfortable with the selling price. Wish I had the 54k to drop on it . - Keith Veronese

 

Um.

 

I daresay the key cover of the 80's is actually this one:

 

 

As amazing as Miracleman is (and it is), and as amazing as Totleben's art is (and it is), there are still people who've never even seen MM #15 who actively collect Batman.

 

If there's any cover that is as well known, as iconic, as copied, and as important from the 1980's, I'd sure like to know which.

 

PERHAPS X-Men #137. MAYBE Turtles #1 (which is, itself, a parody of Miller.)

 

But MM #15..? Not even top 25. Maybe not even top 50. Death in the Family is more iconic than MM #15. Killing Joke beats it hands down.

 

And don't you mean "pittance"...?

 

I don't think anyone is saying its the key cover of the 80s or the most valuable cover of the 80s. But it is the cover to one of the key books of the 80s and the cover to one of the more valuable books of the 80s (there's a difference in meaning there which I'm sure you can appreciate).

 

I can. But I don't think that's what Senor Veronese said.

 

As for how much of an "iconic" image a cover is, gah who cares. I'm starting to get sick every time I hear that word!

 

I agree, it's quite fanboyish, but it's what the masses understand, so.... :shrug:

 

Certainly there are bigger 80s covers out there but how "iconic" a cover isn't the be all and end all. There are other important valuation factors. Like being the cover to one of the greatest stories of the last 40 years, which both the MM15 and Swamp Thing 21 covers, since we're talking Moore here, no doubt benefit from. As I alluded to in another thread I'm not even sure DKR1 is the most valuable cover in its own series, despite being the best known.

 

Oh, I think I can safely say DKR #1 is the most valuable cover of the four. Just a hunch.

 

And as amazing as ST #21 is (and it is...go read my write up in my eBay auction listing for my 9.8...it's so fawning, I felt like a deer giving birth while writing it)...I doubt you'll ever convince anyone of the great masterfulness of Tom Yeates' cover....

 

Now, if you were going to make an argument for Killing Joke being the most important based on ALL the above criteria, I daresay you wouldn't get much resistance from me.

[Bronty]

No one has done anything close to this combination that Moore/Totleben has done, and I suspect if this series ever gets reprinted then these pages will seem extremely cheap.

 

All the best,

 

Hari

 

Agreed. Once this series is reprinted, the prices from yesterday on interiors will be a penance. This might be the key cover of the 80s (Crisis 7 & 8 come to mind as well, but historically, I think this surpasses them), so I'm comfortable with the selling price. Wish I had the 54k to drop on it . - Keith Veronese

 

Um.

 

I daresay the key cover of the 80's is actually this one:

 

 

As amazing as Miracleman is (and it is), and as amazing as Totleben's art is (and it is), there are still people who've never even seen MM #15 who actively collect Batman.

 

If there's any cover that is as well known, as iconic, as copied, and as important from the 1980's, I'd sure like to know which.

 

PERHAPS X-Men #137. MAYBE Turtles #1 (which is, itself, a parody of Miller.)

 

But MM #15..? Not even top 25. Maybe not even top 50. Death in the Family is more iconic than MM #15. Killing Joke beats it hands down.

 

And don't you mean "pittance"...?

 

I don't think anyone is saying its the key cover of the 80s or the most valuable cover of the 80s. But it is the cover to one of the key books of the 80s and the cover to one of the more valuable books of the 80s (there's a difference in meaning there which I'm sure you can appreciate).

 

I can. But I don't think that's what Senor Veronese said.

 

As for how much of an "iconic" image a cover is, gah who cares. I'm starting to get sick every time I hear that word!

 

I agree, it's quite fanboyish, but it's what the masses understand, so.... :shrug:

 

Certainly there are bigger 80s covers out there but how "iconic" a cover isn't the be all and end all. There are other important valuation factors. Like being the cover to one of the greatest stories of the last 40 years, which both the MM15 and Swamp Thing 21 covers, since we're talking Moore here, no doubt benefit from. As I alluded to in another thread I'm not even sure DKR1 is the most valuable cover in its own series, despite being the best known.

 

Oh, I think I can safely say DKR #1 is the most valuable cover of the four. Just a hunch.

 

And as amazing as ST #21 is (and it is...go read my write up in my eBay auction listing for my 9.8...it's so fawning, I felt like a deer giving birth while writing it)...I doubt you'll ever convince anyone of the great masterfulness of Tom Yeate's cover....

 

Now, if you were going to make an argument for Killing Joke being the most important based on ALL the above criteria, I daresay you wouldn't get much resistance from me.

 

masterful or not (and its not that bad, just not nearly as great as the writing) the ST21 cover is far more valuable than it would be if joe schmoe were the writer of that issue. Point being other valuation factors besides iconic imagery exist.

 

I'm sure the KJ cover is worth a fortune but I don't believe its the most valuable of the 80s, not that either one of us can prove it either way. I think any of the top ten or so pieces could be top dog on any given day depending on who wants to sell, who wants to buy, what the pieces look like in person, etc.

 

As for DKR, I see the DKR1 cover more as a great piece of design, where the DKR2 cover is a great piece of art.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I'm sure the KJ cover is worth a fortune but I don't believe its the most valuable of the 80s, not that either one of us can prove it either way. I think any of the top ten or so pieces could be top dog on any given day depending on who wants to sell and who wants to buy.

 

It is my opinion....based entirely on my perception, and the factors that created it...that if "the top 10 80's covers" were all auctioned on the same day, DKR #1 would sell for the most.

 

Obviously something that cannot be proven, but I have the feeling that's how it would play out.

 

Watchmen #1 would be second, KJ 3rd, Turtles 4th, Spidy #300 5th (though, I think people would be disappointed to see that the art is just the circle with Spidey in it...)

 

There's just too much to be said for images that have been seared into the public consciousness, like these covers have. KJ wouldn't win because, even with all the Bollandy Jokery goodness, it's still not BATMAN, and it's still not MILLER. But it's damn close.

 

Of course, this is all just educated guessing, with no real way to find out.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

As for DKR, I see the DKR1 cover more as a great piece of design, where the DKR2 cover is a great piece of art.

 

Something that's not often discussed about the DK covers is how essentially perfect they are for their specific issue numbers.

 

#2's cover is perfection, but it fits issue #2. It wouldn't have worked for the first issue. #4, with the sunset behind Bruce and Clark duking it out on the hill...it's perfect for #4. The Bat Signal with a small Carrie Kelly would clearly not have worked for issue #1, nor #2 or #4. All four covers perfectly complement their parts of the story.

 

To this day, I cannot tell you of a Batman story that captures the essence of the character better than Frank Miller did in 1985, while creating it. It was lightning in a bottle that Miller clearly couldn't repeat.

[Bronty]

 

 

#2's cover is perfection, but it fits issue #2. It wouldn't have worked for the first issue. #4, with the sunset behind Bruce and Clark duking it out on the hill...it's perfect for #4. The Bat Signal with a small Carrie Kelly would clearly not have worked for issue #1, nor #2 or #4. All four covers perfectly complement their parts of the story.

 

 

Good point!

[comix4fun]

 

There's just too much to be said for images that have been seared into the public consciousness, like these covers have. KJ wouldn't win because, even with all the Bollandy Jokery goodness, it's still not BATMAN, and it's still not MILLER. But it's damn close.

 

Of course, this is all just educated guessing, with no real way to find out.

 

 

Thank God it's not Miller doing the KJ cover, I would take Bolland's artwork and ability to draw any day, and twice on Sunday. There's no comparing the ability of each as an artist. DKR has slipped into nostalgic conscience to the point that it doesn't matter anymore.

 

Much of the demand for Miller artwork is Miller's storytelling. It's certainly not technical proficiency or "prettiness". However, you have to know that the Cover to DKR #2 would so far surpass #1 in sales price it probably would not even be close. Imagine what the #1 actually is when you would see it as OA and you will know why.