Miller DD over 100k with the vig

[chrisco37]

Wow what a testament to subjectivity!!! I will admit to be a little surprised when I saw the hammer on this piece, however, I am truly shocked at how many in this thread are so vehemently throwing this piece under the bus.

 

Rest assured, I certainly wasn't trying to throw this piece under the bus. It's a great piece. Maybe I was throwing the price under the bus. I think that hammer price is extremely high (not that I could even compete if it was only 10% of that). I think the MM #15 cover is high at $53K (and I think it is far superior), so what do I know?

 

As far as the hammer price, well, I guess when it comes to one of a kind commodities, all it takes is for TWO people with really deep pockets to want the SAME thing and POOF! And in all fairness who are we to judge what others should or shouldn't be spending (big) money on? Perhaps the two bidders that went down to the wire both had a STRONG nostalgic pull for Miller DD?

 

I can't argue with that. And I definitely won't judge what anyone can or does spend on something.

 

Also, for what it's worth I genuinely don't think this was a case of market manipulation by some insidious individual or individuals as was insinuated earlier in this thread.

 

I agree with you there. I don't feel like there was any manipulation either. I still think it's too high a number though.

[chrisco37]

# 168 could be up there, but what does the original look like?

 

True. I've never seen it, so I can't say if it's better or worse. I would bet it's equal or better. But, even if it was significantly "worse", it's still the more desirable cover. No contest.

 

Wolverine # 1 limited, sure it's great Wolverine etc, but boring by comparision.

 

 

From an artistic standpoint, yes. But, significance weighs big-time with art. Wolvierine #1 cover is an iconic image. I had to look the DD#188 cover up to see what it looks like. If someone asked me what the cover to Wolvie #1 looked like, I could describe it almost perfect. Heck, if someone says the name 'Wolverine' the first image in my head is the #1 cover. That is THE Wolverine image.

[tth2]

and I forgot to add that it isn't even a good cover...!!!

 

I like your honesty on this, but this is why discussions on how 'CRAZY" something is is somewhat relative. I think this cover is TERRIFIC. I mean, a superb cover from such an influential and important run of Daredevil, and I would LOVE to add this to my collection. I think it went for well over what I would have guessed (75k), but THIS type of art is exactly the type of art that I am not surprised by when it goes for an aggressive number. I think a lot of art is WAY overpriced, but this old time collector sees the logic in overpaying for THIS cover a lot more than a lot of other stuff I see for sale.

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott.. there is absolutely NOTHING about this particular cover that makes it special. As far as art goes, you are supposed to judge any particular artist's work on a curve according to quality of design, concept & finished work. Of all the Miller DD covers - this is one of the worst and this is not a new thinking. When it came out (meaning, when it was published) we all wondered aloud what a piece of it was.

 

Comics is a strange collecting field in several ways that don't measure in any way with other hobbies. Any comic book can be suddenly recognized as something "historic"

 

ie:

This is the first comic featuring Dung Beetle

This is the first cover appearance of Dung Beetle

this is the first issue exposing Dung Beetle's identity as Star Nosed Mole's brother

 

that's a bunch of hooey and they are what called "hype" so that something sells better. But comic fans deserve it if they fall for it just like any moe-ron who buys a $60,000 house for $150,000.

 

This Frank Miller cover is a low quality work and some fool just spent $101k on it. Fortunately any fool who spends that jack can afford to lose it or bury it or burn it and if it was bought by someone whose financial strata is not that he could burn teh cash.. he's an even bigger fool

 

 

 

So much anger in your posts.

 

The hobby has passed you by. Deal with it.

[Mephisto]

$100K for that cover? That's just downright retarded. I'm sure all the OA Market bulls will dismiss my comment but how about a reality check here? When I see auction results like this I see speculation, manipulation and business. That is not the kind of hobby I want to be a part of. I've seen it happen gradually over the last 7 or 8 years. For me, this is like watching a big slab fall off of my idea of a hobby that I've been watching crumble for some time.

 

I agree too. I loved Miller DD but honestly was not nearly as fond of the later run issues after 181. I never even bothered to buy that TPB. I'm glad I've decided to keep my pen and ink comic art very limited. Granted I have spent retarded money on a few very modern pieces, but the over all amount was really just peanuts.

[comicartcom]

and I forgot to add that it isn't even a good cover...!!!

 

I like your honesty on this, but this is why discussions on how 'CRAZY" something is is somewhat relative. I think this cover is TERRIFIC. I mean, a superb cover from such an influential and important run of Daredevil, and I would LOVE to add this to my collection. I think it went for well over what I would have guessed (75k), but THIS type of art is exactly the type of art that I am not surprised by when it goes for an aggressive number. I think a lot of art is WAY overpriced, but this old time collector sees the logic in overpaying for THIS cover a lot more than a lot of other stuff I see for sale.

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott.. there is absolutely NOTHING about this particular cover that makes it special. As far as art goes, you are supposed to judge any particular artist's work on a curve according to quality of design, concept & finished work. Of all the Miller DD covers - this is one of the worst and this is not a new thinking. When it came out (meaning, when it was published) we all wondered aloud what a piece of it was.

 

Comics is a strange collecting field in several ways that don't measure in any way with other hobbies. Any comic book can be suddenly recognized as something "historic"

 

ie:

This is the first comic featuring Dung Beetle

This is the first cover appearance of Dung Beetle

this is the first issue exposing Dung Beetle's identity as Star Nosed Mole's brother

 

that's a bunch of hooey and they are what called "hype" so that something sells better. But comic fans deserve it if they fall for it just like any moe-ron who buys a $60,000 house for $150,000.

 

This Frank Miller cover is a low quality work and some fool just spent $101k on it. Fortunately any fool who spends that jack can afford to lose it or bury it or burn it and if it was bought by someone whose financial strata is not that he could burn teh cash.. he's an even bigger fool

 

 

 

So much anger in your posts.

 

The hobby has passed you by. Deal with it.

 

what in the world are you even talking about.. You have no clue where I'm at. If you did, you would realize what an idiotic statement you made

[tth2]

and I forgot to add that it isn't even a good cover...!!!

 

I like your honesty on this, but this is why discussions on how 'CRAZY" something is is somewhat relative. I think this cover is TERRIFIC. I mean, a superb cover from such an influential and important run of Daredevil, and I would LOVE to add this to my collection. I think it went for well over what I would have guessed (75k), but THIS type of art is exactly the type of art that I am not surprised by when it goes for an aggressive number. I think a lot of art is WAY overpriced, but this old time collector sees the logic in overpaying for THIS cover a lot more than a lot of other stuff I see for sale.

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott.. there is absolutely NOTHING about this particular cover that makes it special. As far as art goes, you are supposed to judge any particular artist's work on a curve according to quality of design, concept & finished work. Of all the Miller DD covers - this is one of the worst and this is not a new thinking. When it came out (meaning, when it was published) we all wondered aloud what a piece of it was.

 

Comics is a strange collecting field in several ways that don't measure in any way with other hobbies. Any comic book can be suddenly recognized as something "historic"

 

ie:

This is the first comic featuring Dung Beetle

This is the first cover appearance of Dung Beetle

this is the first issue exposing Dung Beetle's identity as Star Nosed Mole's brother

 

that's a bunch of hooey and they are what called "hype" so that something sells better. But comic fans deserve it if they fall for it just like any moe-ron who buys a $60,000 house for $150,000.

 

This Frank Miller cover is a low quality work and some fool just spent $101k on it. Fortunately any fool who spends that jack can afford to lose it or bury it or burn it and if it was bought by someone whose financial strata is not that he could burn teh cash.. he's an even bigger fool

 

 

 

So much anger in your posts.

 

The hobby has passed you by. Deal with it.

 

what in the world are you even talking about.. You have no clue where I'm at. If you did, you would realize what an idiotic statement you made

Have you ever made a positive and uplifting post on these boards?

[CollectingFool]

Also, for what it's worth I genuinely don't think this was a case of market manipulation by some insidious individual or individuals as was insinuated earlier in this thread.

 

I didn't insinuate it, I said it outright. Although, to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything untoward happened with this particular auction. I was referring to the general manipulation of the market that can make absurdities like this occur and even be rationalized by some. Something that has been discussed before at length here and in other forums.

 

 

 

 

 

[stinkininkin]

Also, for what it's worth I genuinely don't think this was a case of market manipulation by some insidious individual or individuals as was insinuated earlier in this thread.

 

I didn't insinuate it, I said it outright. Although, to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything untoward happened with this particular auction. I was referring to the general manipulation of the market that can make absurdities like this occur and even be rationalized by some. Something that has been discussed before at length here and in other forums.

 

 

 

 

And though we don't always agree on some things Ruben, to deny that there is market manipulation in this hobby is to be blind or ignorant or both. I'll even admit to rationalizing my spoon off to justify some of my purchases! But I'm doing so with my eyes wide open!

 

Scott Williams

[jbud73]

I thought this was one of the best Miller covers ?

 

What other Miller covers surpass this one ?

 

It's really complete, with lush dark values, and a menacing mood that brings one into the web.

 

 

 

 

Also, with the Miller Daredevil pages, I see a lot of them where Janson may or may not have been the penciler, or Miller may have only done layouts. And then there are some where Miller really did the pencils. Many seller can get away saying it's miller or having him sign it, because he often wrote it. Is there a way to find out which pages were true Miller Pencils ?

 

 

I sometimes see Janson credited as the penciler, with Miller as secondary, then later sold by someone else, just mentiong it's Miller pencils, and getting 5 times more.

 

 

 

Back Issue Magazine #21 had an article about it

 

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=105048

 

In Summary:

 

158-172 Tight Miller drawings (he also spots blacks), Janson inks.

 

173-185 Looser Miller pencils, Janson inks and spots blacks. 179 Janson starts coloring as well.

 

185-190 Miller layouts on small sheets of paper. Janson draws, inks and colors.

 

Ouch, so how much Miller is in that cover? 20%?

[stinkininkin]

I thought this was one of the best Miller covers ?

 

What other Miller covers surpass this one ?

 

It's really complete, with lush dark values, and a menacing mood that brings one into the web.

 

 

 

 

Also, with the Miller Daredevil pages, I see a lot of them where Janson may or may not have been the penciler, or Miller may have only done layouts. And then there are some where Miller really did the pencils. Many seller can get away saying it's miller or having him sign it, because he often wrote it. Is there a way to find out which pages were true Miller Pencils ?

 

 

I sometimes see Janson credited as the penciler, with Miller as secondary, then later sold by someone else, just mentiong it's Miller pencils, and getting 5 times more.

 

 

 

Back Issue Magazine #21 had an article about it

 

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=105048

 

In Summary:

 

158-172 Tight Miller drawings (he also spots blacks), Janson inks.

 

173-185 Looser Miller pencils, Janson inks and spots blacks. 179 Janson starts coloring as well.

 

185-190 Miller layouts on small sheets of paper. Janson draws, inks and colors.

 

Ouch, so how much Miller is in that cover? 20%?

 

The breakdown refers to the interiors. ALL the covers were completely penciled by Miller and this cover in question was also inked by Miller.

 

Scott Williams

[jbud73]

thanks Scott, who needs the Grand Comic Database the knowledge is all here

[comicartcom]

Also, for what it's worth I genuinely don't think this was a case of market manipulation by some insidious individual or individuals as was insinuated earlier in this thread.

 

I didn't insinuate it, I said it outright. Although, to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything untoward happened with this particular auction. I was referring to the general manipulation of the market that can make absurdities like this occur and even be rationalized by some. Something that has been discussed before at length here and in other forums.

 

 

 

 

And though we don't always agree on some things Ruben, to deny that there is market manipulation in this hobby is to be blind or ignorant or both. I'll even admit to rationalizing my spoon off to justify some of my purchases! But I'm doing so with my eyes wide open!

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott.. I looked over the gallery of DD covers.. and you're right it isn't one of the worst as there are some real dogs in there I have forgotten. I'd say it's in the middle.. But 100k is still a :screwy: :screwy: price

[clemso]

Here is another way to look at it, if you are already lucky enough to be sitting on a load of primo Miller art and you had the financial means to compete for more, it would hurt your existing holdings would it.

[stinkininkin]

Also, for what it's worth I genuinely don't think this was a case of market manipulation by some insidious individual or individuals as was insinuated earlier in this thread.

 

I didn't insinuate it, I said it outright. Although, to be clear, I wasn't suggesting anything untoward happened with this particular auction. I was referring to the general manipulation of the market that can make absurdities like this occur and even be rationalized by some. Something that has been discussed before at length here and in other forums.

 

 

 

 

And though we don't always agree on some things Ruben, to deny that there is market manipulation in this hobby is to be blind or ignorant or both. I'll even admit to rationalizing my spoon off to justify some of my purchases! But I'm doing so with my eyes wide open!

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott.. I looked over the gallery of DD covers.. and you're right it isn't one of the worst as there are some real dogs in there I have forgotten. I'd say it's in the middle.. But 100k is still a :screwy: :screwy: price

 

We don't really disagree all that much on the merits of this cover after all then Richard. I'd say AT LEAST middle of the pack (or better), and from that point it's all about personal taste and preference. As for the price paid, I'm guessing even the buyer knows he reached above and beyond, and I'm sure he's fine with that fact. I had felt well before the auction that this piece had the potential to create a stir, which it most certainly has!

 

Scott Williams

[DStorm]

and when people say WORST of the Frank Miller covers, what are you saying really?? It's still Frank Miller! His "WORST" art is still pretty damn good!

 

I personally love this cover and agree that, as a piece of art, it could stand on it's own without knowing the story. With that said, that price is still pretty retarded as someone so eloquently said ....

 

BUT I wish I was retarded enough to have $100K to blow on this because I want it !!!

 

Congrats to the winner!

[Bronty]

yeah the cover lacks some execution for sure (people have mentioned dd's hands, what about the widows they look like the fingers of a 4 year old) but on the other hand I like what he's trying to do. When I look at that cover I don't so much care for the particular piece but I do like that its showing me what's still to come from him later on.

[Brian Peck]

How many of the dd covers were penciled and inked by miller?

[stinkininkin]

and when people say WORST of the Frank Miller covers, what are you saying really?? It's still Frank Miller! His "WORST" art is still pretty damn good!

 

I personally love this cover and agree that, as a piece of art, it could stand on it's own without knowing the story. With that said, that price is still pretty retarded as someone so eloquently said ....

 

BUT I wish I was retarded enough to have $100K to blow on this because I want it !!!

 

Congrats to the winner!

 

Here's where I would disagree in that just because it's Frank Miller, that does not mean the drawing is necessarily good. His work has rarely if ever been ''pretty", but can be really beautiful in a way that has nothing to do with surface aesthetics. It's usually about the storytelling with Frank, occasionally drawn with elegance and usually with an economy of line. But every once in a while, even in some of his best known work, his drawing lacks aesthetics (IMHO) so completely that it takes me out of the story. I LOVE Miller at his best, but Miller at his worst is pretty bloody awful!

 

Scott Williams

[supapimp]

must be a record for a miller at auction?

 

makes me wonder what a truly top tier miller like Dark Knight #2 would get

 

150k. At least. Trust me.

 

Scott Williams

 

i'd say 250K

[stinkininkin]

Miller inked 3 DD covers Brian. 176, 188, and 191.

 

Scott Williams