'Approved Seller' Status

[Flaming_Telepath]

Thanks go to Sharon for inspiring some thought on this matter.

 

I've been concerned for years about certain Marketplace activities...shady dealings, inappropriate postings, poor grading, abuse of rules and free exposure for the non-community minded. Not only is it tiresome to have to deal with these issues, but it can also relegate the good sellers...those who have contributed a lot around here and always offered great goods and stellar service...to the role of bit-players.

 

However, rather than disbar the noobs and the disinterested, I wonder whether it would be better to put a positive spin on it and have a 'authorised dealer' stamp of approval and a seperate Marketplace area for those who have earned the badge?

 

This is clearly open for both debate and finnessing, but here's how I could see it working...

 

(1) A three-person committee is nominated from a pool of universally respected long-standing members...foolkiller, MrBedrock, DrBanner, G.A.tor, etc., etc.

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

(3) The initial list of 'approved sellers' will be posted to the boards and anybody who has a problem with any of the named members can send objective evidence to the committee for their consideration.

 

(4) All successful applicants will be required to pay a $25 'bond', thus funding a 'fighting fund' for use if any approved member goes off the rails and defrauds a buyer.

 

(5) The committee will notify Arch of all successful applicants and they will be allowed thread starting rights in a new Marketplace area. They will also be entitled to carry a 'seal of approval' logo in their sig line.

 

(6) At any point, newer members can apply for approved seller status, but they will need to show a long track record of many honest dealings. Again, a unanimous vote will be required for the status to be granted.

 

(7) At any point, approved seller status can be removed, but only on a unanimous vote of the committee.

 

(8) The committee can issue warnings to approved sellers who are conducting themselves in a manner not befitting their status.

 

(9) In the case of an approved seller 'going bad' and defrauding a buyer, a compensation claim will be considered by the committee and damages paid from the 'fighting fund' on the back of a unanimous vote.

 

(10) Committee members serve for one year and a new committee will be elected by board vote.

 

(11) Once the 'fighting fund' reaches a certain agreed level ($1,000, $2,000, whatever) 50% of all future bonds will be passed to a charitable cause.

 

 

I'm sure there are a number of things that I haven't considered, so feel free to plug the gaps. I personally feel that this is a better way than barring new members from selling or throwing down criteria that is quite off-putting. Let them all sell, but sort the wheat from the chaff and give everybody something to aim at. (thumbs u

[Boozad]

Great idea Nick, but the one outlined below may be a slight problem.

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

A lot of people may deal primarily (or solely) in slabbed books. Would they be included in this as the grade is 'guaranteed'? Also, with the old 'grading is subjective' chestnut, aggrieved old buyers may throw their hat in the ring about a seller they have a beef with, whether it be warranted or not.

 

Overall a great idea, but I could just see that one piece being a bit of a stick in the mud. (thumbs u

[Flaming_Telepath]

Great idea Nick, but the one outlined below may be a slight problem.

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

A lot of people may deal primarily (or solely) in slabbed books. Would they be included in this as the grade is 'guaranteed'? Also, with the old 'grading is subjective' chestnut, aggrieved old buyers may throw their hat in the ring about a seller they have a beef with, whether it be warranted or not.

 

Overall a great idea, but I could just see that one piece being a bit of a stick in the mud. (thumbs u

 

(1) I think that the long-term sellers...those who would reasonably be expected to qualify for this status...will have sold both raw and slabbed books over the years. Regardless, CGC-only sellers could qualify and if at any point they started to sell raw...and couldn't grade their way out of a paper bag...their status can be reviewed in the case of complaints being received by the committee.

 

(2) Anybody can raise old beefs with the committee regarding any aspects of a sellers conduct. However, they will need to produce evidence and they will need to convince three people (and possibly in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence) that there is a case to answer.

[buttock]

I disagree with any type of fee. Too much potential for abuse, and virtually no benefit to be obtained.

[GACollectibles]

Another Marketplace sub-forum?

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

I disagree with any type of fee. Too much potential for abuse, and virtually no benefit to be obtained.

 

Abuse by whom?

 

And the benefit is solely for the buyers...should they get ripped off, there is a means of compensation if all else fails.

 

Finally, given the cost of selling anywhere else...CLink, Heritage, eBay...I don't think a $25 lifetime membership is exactly taxing.

 

It's certainly not a deal-breaker, but many associations have this sort of thing in place.

[Bosco685]

Nick, I like where this is going.

 

The challenge may be having a process that is standardized to rate someone's proven track record (Items 2, 6, 8). I think this is going to require some brainstorming to lock down a process that would be considered thorough and fair, and documented so it is clear to everyone what the standards are.

 

Item 9 concerns me because all it would take is a few key Golden or Silver Age books to break the bank, and the fund could be depleted fast. But having such a fund does bring comfort a seller just can't disappear and leave the buyer high and dry.

 

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

(6) At any point, newer members can apply for approved seller status, but they will need to show a long track record of many honest dealings. Again, a unanimous vote will be required for the status to be granted.

 

(8) The committee can issue warnings to approved sellers who are conducting themselves in a manner not befitting their status.

 

(9) In the case of an approved seller 'going bad' and defrauding a buyer, a compensation claim will be considered by the committee and damages paid from the 'fighting fund' on the back of a unanimous vote.

 

[Speedy-D]

Are things really so bad that the Special People need to have their sales threads shielded from contact with those of the Commoners? It sounds pretty negative to me. I know I'd definitely not be included in the privileged group, nor would I be considered "universally respected" enough to participate in decision making, and there's no way I'd be pleased with that.

 

It also doesn't sound great to have the sales forums further fractured (alliteration!). Would the Wonderful Area also be divided into eras (GA/SA/BA, etc.)?

 

I suppose I like this better than making new members work for the privilege of buying or selling comics here, but I still don't see what the huge problem is.

[goldust40]

Great idea Nick, but the one outlined below may be a slight problem.

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

A lot of people may deal primarily (or solely) in slabbed books. Would they be included in this as the grade is 'guaranteed'? Also, with the old 'grading is subjective' chestnut, aggrieved old buyers may throw their hat in the ring about a seller they have a beef with, whether it be warranted or not.

 

Overall a great idea, but I could just see that one piece being a bit of a stick in the mud. (thumbs u

 

(1) I think that the long-term sellers...those who would reasonably be expected to qualify for this status...will have sold both raw and slabbed books over the years. Regardless, CGC-only sellers could qualify and if at any point they started to sell raw...and couldn't grade their way out of a paper bag...their status can be reviewed in the case of complaints being received by the committee.

 

(2) Anybody can raise old beefs with the committee regarding any aspects of a sellers conduct. However, they will need to produce evidence and they will need to convince three people (and possibly in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence) that there is a case to answer.

 

These are all commendable ideas, even though politics will no doubt affect the committee process - on the one hand, established boardies don't want to see the marketplace exploited, on the other, they don't wish to be seen as an elite cabal being too heavy-handed in overseeing matters.

 

There has to be flexibility, rules that everyone can agree on, rotation of the committee, and no overlapping with what the Mods would rather deal with.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Nick, I like where this is going.

 

The challenge may be having a process that is standardized to rate someone's proven track record (Items 2, 6, 8). I think this is going to require some brainstorming to lock down a process that would be considered thorough and fair, and documented so it is clear to everyone what the standards are.

 

Item 9 concerns me because all it would take is a few key Golden or Silver Age books to break the bank, and the fund could be depleted fast. But having such a fund does bring comfort a seller just can't disappear and leave the buyer high and dry.

 

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

(6) At any point, newer members can apply for approved seller status, but they will need to show a long track record of many honest dealings. Again, a unanimous vote will be required for the status to be granted.

 

(8) The committee can issue warnings to approved sellers who are conducting themselves in a manner not befitting their status.

 

(9) In the case of an approved seller 'going bad' and defrauding a buyer, a compensation claim will be considered by the committee and damages paid from the 'fighting fund' on the back of a unanimous vote.

 

 

Yeah, quantifying what is required would indeed take some thought. Not impossible, but not exactly straight-forward. A list of 'service standards' would be required, certainly.

 

As for the compensation, full restitution might be an issue in certain circumstances. However, with large purchases, I'm sure that shipping insurance will be involved, as will payment via credit card, so there's already two avenues for claims open to the buyer, thus severely cutting down the possibility.

[drbanner]

Hmmm, further sub-division of the sales forum doesn't sound like a great idea.

 

I believe in one of our previous discussions on this issue, someone noted that in another forum they participated in, you couldn't post in the "sales" forums until you were "nominated" by some minimum number of their fellow boardees. I really think any screening tool we come up with would have to be easily integrated into the forum software such that it's an automated process...not sure what capabilities the current software has but maybe Arch could chime in and let us know what options we have?

[kdoginohio]

[lscomics]

This all sounds like a crock to me. Since I've been on here I think I've run 3 or 4 sales threads, in my experience most buyers on here only buy from specific sellers. My last thread didn't even bring in so much as a single PM low ball offer. Without question, the majority of members don't know who I am and that without question affects the success of a sales thread. Keep in mind, newer members joining this board don't know you either and just because you have a high post count doesn't imply you're in any way trustworthy. All this new concept, in my opinion, would do is form a little inner circle of those that have been on here the longest. I never knew this board existed until around August of 2009, I just don't spend that much time online, but I've been buying/selling comics for over 25 years. I don't sell much anymore because I've pretty much sold off the majority of what I no longer want but I also don't feel the need to prove my honesty/integrity/grading ability to ANYONE unless there's an actual dispute over it. The entire time I've been in this hobby I've never taken advantage of anyone I've dealt with nor do I intend to. I find this whole proposed concept to be a bit insulting. Just because an individual isn't on here posting as much as some doesn't mean in the least that they're a lesser member of this community and should be suspect before any wrong doing has even occurred.

[chrisco37]

Are things really so bad that the Special People need to have their sales threads shielded from contact with those of the Commoners? It sounds pretty negative to me. I know I'd definitely not be included in the privileged group, nor would I be considered "universally respected" enough to participate in decision making, and there's no way I'd be pleased with that.

 

It also doesn't sound great to have the sales forums further fractured (alliteration!). Would the Wonderful Area also be divided into eras (GA/SA/BA, etc.)?

 

I suppose I like this better than making new members work for the privilege of buying or selling comics here, but I still don't see what the huge problem is.

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

While I appreciate the effort that some people are trying to make, is it really THAT bad that we need to try and come up with a committee to regulate the sales threads?

 

Is the constant bumping annoying? Sure

 

Have some people been burned? Yep

 

Are the boards a better option than eBay? You bet

 

Are there people that, despite every warning signal, are still going to "roll the dice" with a less than stellar seller? Of course

 

Is that same person then going to come on and complain about how they got screwed? Oh yeah.

 

 

As the community here grows, you're going to get some bad apples in the bunch, a few transactions are going to go sour (law of averages and all).

 

All in all, the boards do a great job of policing ourselves as things are. The unfortunate reality is we're never going to have a "perfect system", but we're pretty close.

 

You can put as many additional checks and balances on the thing, but something will still go wrong.

 

Seems like alot of "sound & fury" to me.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I suppose I like this better than making new members work for the privilege of buying or selling comics here, but I still don't see what the huge problem is.

 

Well, the 'huge problem' appears to be many-faceted...

 

(1) Sellers having no input to the community but treating the Marketplace as a way of avoiding eBay fees.

 

(2) Poor seller conduct 'in thread'.

 

(3) Poor seller service.

 

(4) Non-delivery of goods.

 

(5) Poor grading (and I was shown two excellent examples of this only yesterday ).

[chrisco37]

 

Well, the 'huge problem' appears to be many-faceted...

 

(1) Sellers having no input to the community but treating the Marketplace as a way of avoiding eBay fees. Don't buy from these sellers (but, we know that won't happen)

 

(2) Poor seller conduct 'in thread'. Don't buy from these sellers

 

(3) Poor seller service. Aye, theres the rub. You won't know about poor service if you don't buy. But, if someone has a track record of poor service, don't buy from them. If you're worried about this, don't make a big purchase from someone that doesn't have the track record yet. Anyone can PM anyone asking for info on a seller.

 

(4) Non-delivery of goods. See #3

 

(5) Poor grading (and I was shown two excellent examples of this only yesterday ). Return the books for a refund. If seller doesn't offer refund on books, don't buy from them.

 

See bold responses.

[Jeffro.]

Are things really so bad that the Special People need to have their sales threads shielded from contact with those of the Commoners? It sounds pretty negative to me. I know I'd definitely not be included in the privileged group, nor would I be considered "universally respected" enough to participate in decision making, and there's no way I'd be pleased with that.

 

Honestly, this kinda stuff crossed my mind as well.

 

It's an interesting idea to be sure and one worth discussing but I can see this leading to the perception of exclusion. Just another clique on the boards. If you don't know the (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more) secret handshake then you're not in the "club"

Plus, you will have some complaining that they are being blacklisted from this group for whatever reason, justified or not.

 

I've been on these boards long enough and have seen enough to know that this could go to a very bad place very quickly. You know it will happen.

 

As far as a board member committee, didn't we try a forum liason (sp?) a few years ago? How did that work out?

 

I hate to be so cynical about this because I think it's not a decent idea in theory. I just have some reservations about it in practise.

[Flaming_Telepath]

This all sounds like a crock to me. Since I've been on here I think I've run 3 or 4 sales threads, in my experience most buyers on here only buy from specific sellers. My last thread didn't even bring in so much as a single PM low ball offer. Without question, the majority of members don't know who I am and that without question affects the success of a sales thread. Keep in mind, newer members joining this board don't know you either and just because you have a high post count doesn't imply you're in any way trustworthy. All this new concept, in my opinion, would do is form a little inner circle of those that have been on here the longest. I never knew this board existed until around August of 2009, I just don't spend that much time online, but I've been buying/selling comics for over 25 years. I don't sell much anymore because I've pretty much sold off the majority of what I no longer want but I also don't feel the need to prove my honesty/integrity/grading ability to ANYONE unless there's an actual dispute over it. The entire time I've been in this hobby I've never taken advantage of anyone I've dealt with nor do I intend to. I find this whole proposed concept to be a bit insulting. Just because an individual isn't on here posting as much as some doesn't mean in the least that they're a lesser member of this community and should be suspect before any wrong doing has even occurred.

 

This is not a means of stopping people selling here. Think of it more as 'Power Seller' status.

 

Status will not be determined by post count but by previous conduct and board involvement.

 

I'm sure you've never taken advantage of anybody...and if you'd traded through here all those years, your exemplary conduct would be recognised if this was ever implimented.

 

Why are you insulted? You're insulted because people who have professionally and ethically dealt with hundreds, possibly thousands, of transactions right here might have a level of recognition that you don't?

 

Please explain why 'it's a crock'?

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

Well, the 'huge problem' appears to be many-faceted...

 

(1) Sellers having no input to the community but treating the Marketplace as a way of avoiding eBay fees. Don't buy from these sellers (but, we know that won't happen) Which is why it needs addressing.

 

(2) Poor seller conduct 'in thread'. Don't buy from these sellers But that doesn't stop the seller taking up prime real estate at the top of the first page.

 

(3) Poor seller service. Aye, theres the rub. You won't know about poor service if you don't buy. But, if someone has a track record of poor service, don't buy from them. If you're worried about this, don't make a big purchase from someone that doesn't have the track record yet. Anyone can PM anyone asking for info on a seller. Lots of hoops to jump through, whereas a 'seal of approval' would make it so much easier.

 

(4) Non-delivery of goods. See #3 See #3

 

(5) Poor grading (and I was shown two excellent examples of this only yesterday ). Return the books for a refund. If seller doesn't offer refund on books, don't buy from them. But you're still in the hole for the money you're out? So why not stop it before it happens?

 

See bold responses.

 

See coloured responses.

[Speedy-D]

I suppose I like this better than making new members work for the privilege of buying or selling comics here, but I still don't see what the huge problem is.

 

Well, the 'huge problem' appears to be many-faceted...

 

(1) Sellers having no input to the community but treating the Marketplace as a way of avoiding eBay fees.

So what? Why does someone need to be chatty in order to sell me comics?

 

(2) Poor seller conduct 'in thread'.

This is so touchy. Will the elite be selected based on politeness? Or is the new area intended to be a place where I can feel safe from the horrors of seeing someone act inappropriately?

 

(3) Poor seller service.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't about 99.99% of all transactions go smoothly, or at least work out in the end with an acceptable amount of fuss?

 

(4) Non-delivery of goods.

This happens very infrequently, but it does happen. I'd rather see a system that punishes the guilty rather create an elite who we assume are above reproach.

 

(5) Poor grading (and I was shown two excellent examples of this only yesterday ).

A very different issue from the others. If you think something's overgraded, don't buy it. We can hardly have a section of the forum for overgraded comics, or rather for sellers who we think don't grade the way we'd like them to. That seems silly to me, and not really possible.