'Approved Seller' Status

[Flaming_Telepath]

And for those who consider there is no benefit to an 'approved dealer' scheme of some description, this was posted in the other thread...

 

I don` t buy or sell here because I don`t know if its safe especially buying.

example is I buy $200 dollar book on Ebay and if I don`t get book I know Ebay/Paypal got me covered, what if I sent money here and then seller didn`t send books? What are the safeguards that are in place if something goes wrong with deal for this board?

This is a newbie question, maybe someone can answer it.

 

Two references in place now to assist in making a decision:

 

1) Check the Probation List for the problem children.

2) Search the "Kudos" thread for completed transactions acknowledements.

 

Are either perfect? No. Do they offer an initial step in trying to figure out who is trustworthy and who may not be. I believe so. Could the forum sellers benefit from additional "rating"? Possibly.

 

I think they are now wholly inadequate, Andrew.

 

In the early days, the Kudos thread was manageable. Now it's hopeless to find anything of real use. Additionally, it's only there for the 'good transactions' and even if a seller has 77 consecutive posts of praise, what about the other 78 buyers who aren't so happy?

 

As for the probation thread, there are so many people who don't actually make it there that actually need to be flagged up, it's not even funny anymore.

 

I didn't say they were adequate, I answered the question as to how someone new to the boards can start researching making a purchase on the boards. No system will be perfect.

 

Agreed. However, that doesn't mean that we don't try to improve what we've got and take additional measures.

 

With the scale of the selling that now goes on, and the number of 'unknown' sellers active in the Marketplace, I think that yesterday's measures are outdated and need a revamp.

 

As to how to do it...hey, at least I tried to come up with something.

[VintageComics]

Another feature that people may not use very often is the search function.

 

Do a search for either a board member's name (or real name if it is known) to see what is said about them on this forum.

 

Any searches will also highlight the Kudos thread if a forumite's name is in there...

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think you need to spend more time getting your website up and running Nick so people can buy some books.

 

We're now in 'waiting mode' as the programmers lay out the draft site. Then we get to trouble-shoot and then finalise. (thumbs u

[GACollectibles]

 

Agreed. However, that doesn't mean that we don't try to improve what we've got and take additional measures.

 

 

I never disagreed with that. (thumbs u

[Annihilus]

I applaud the discussion and wanting to make the Marketplace a better/safer place to transact business, though I haven't really come down on a 'side' yet. I haven't really had any problems buying or selling whatsoever, so that's probably why.

 

I have been annoyed by the habits of some sellers, but that's about the extent of it. Certainly nothing that would prompt me to want to commit to wholesale changes of the existing marketplace.

 

Some thoughts rolling around in my head:

 

1. I don't think I'd have a problem making 'approved seller' status being that I've had numerous successful sales threads without any issues that weren't resolvable. That being said, something feels wrong about the proposed 'elite seller' status voted on by a committee. I'm not sure what, and I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I am saying that something about it seems 'off'. Or 'offputting', maybe. I dunno yet.

 

2. Speaking as a moderator on a major Internet forum elsewhere on the web, I can almost guarantee you that anything that requires extra work from the admins on this board will be frowned upon. Running a place like this takes a ton of time and work, and asking them to create new forums, add code to make certain forums accessible to a certain group of users, etc., probably isn't high on their wish-list. Not saying it wouldn't happen, but any solution that we come up with here should be entirely (or at least mostly) community driven/run and not something that would create extra work for the moderators.

 

3. Who elects the 'committee' that approves sellers?

 

4. Would this new format (or whatever it is) affect buyers as well? I'm talking about non-paying buyers, not buyers that shaft someone after getting their money. As a seller, that's the biggest problem I've had.

 

5. What prompted this whole brouhaha anyway? Users abusing the 'bump' rule? Something else? Was the existing rule enforced?

 

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts, these are just what came to mind right away.

[jordanscott]

Is there a flight ring for the Legion of Special Sellers?

 

Possibly the non-special sellers can have their own buses as well to help them get to their own part of the message boards.

[AtlasFan]

Thanks go to Sharon for inspiring some thought on this matter.

 

I've been concerned for years about certain Marketplace activities...shady dealings, inappropriate postings, poor grading, abuse of rules and free exposure for the non-community minded. Not only is it tiresome to have to deal with these issues, but it can also relegate the good sellers...those who have contributed a lot around here and always offered great goods and stellar service...to the role of bit-players.

 

However, rather than disbar the noobs and the disinterested, I wonder whether it would be better to put a positive spin on it and have a 'authorised dealer' stamp of approval and a seperate Marketplace area for those who have earned the badge?

 

This is clearly open for both debate and finnessing, but here's how I could see it working...

 

(1) A three-person committee is nominated from a pool of universally respected long-standing members...foolkiller, MrBedrock, DrBanner, G.A.tor, etc., etc.

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

(3) The initial list of 'approved sellers' will be posted to the boards and anybody who has a problem with any of the named members can send objective evidence to the committee for their consideration.

 

(4) All successful applicants will be required to pay a $25 'bond', thus funding a 'fighting fund' for use if any approved member goes off the rails and defrauds a buyer.

 

(5) The committee will notify Arch of all successful applicants and they will be allowed thread starting rights in a new Marketplace area. They will also be entitled to carry a 'seal of approval' logo in their sig line.

 

(6) At any point, newer members can apply for approved seller status, but they will need to show a long track record of many honest dealings. Again, a unanimous vote will be required for the status to be granted.

 

(7) At any point, approved seller status can be removed, but only on a unanimous vote of the committee.

 

(8) The committee can issue warnings to approved sellers who are conducting themselves in a manner not befitting their status.

 

(9) In the case of an approved seller 'going bad' and defrauding a buyer, a compensation claim will be considered by the committee and damages paid from the 'fighting fund' on the back of a unanimous vote.

 

(10) Committee members serve for one year and a new committee will be elected by board vote.

 

(11) Once the 'fighting fund' reaches a certain agreed level ($1,000, $2,000, whatever) 50% of all future bonds will be passed to a charitable cause.

 

 

I'm sure there are a number of things that I haven't considered, so feel free to plug the gaps. I personally feel that this is a better way than barring new members from selling or throwing down criteria that is quite off-putting. Let them all sell, but sort the wheat from the chaff and give everybody something to aim at. (thumbs u

 

More rules...joiner fees...and now a cabal..er..star chamber..er... "respected members" committee? Yeesh! Using this process it should take...oh.. 4 to 6 weeks to turnaround approving a seller and allow someone to start dong business in the sales forum...Get real.

 

Now I shall put on my tin-foil hat...

 

Or is the real intent here to have a select oligopoly of Power Posters rule the sales forum? This will eventually lead to price collusion, pre-approved white lists, price fixing, required commissions on sales to the cabal (lets call it a "continuous approval fee"), and finally overall corruption.

 

Over time, disgruntled forumites will eventually demand anti-trust legislation and the cabal will be impeached (banned) and cast out into the darkness (where they may congregate at the Comics Corral for several years and plan some kind of counter-revolution).

 

Members, lets really think this over before we give away our liberties in the sales forum to some High Council who think they know whats best for us.

Bill

[Flaming_Telepath]

More rules...joiner fees...and now a cabal..er..star chamber..er... "respected members" committee? Yeesh! Using this process it should take...oh.. 4 to 6 weeks to turnaround approving a seller and allow someone to start dong business in the sales forum...Get real.

 

You might want to go back and re-read the thread...but all the words this time.

 

Nothing will change with regard to the Members Only Marketplace area. You can register today and your first post can be a sales thread.

[gaz973]

How about starting a list of reputable sellers that can be nominated by those board members that they've dealt with?

 

Any board member could nominate a seller that they've dealt with multiple times and had perfect transactions with every time. The nominator would have to have his name displayed on the list to avoid fake nominations.

 

EXAMPLE

 

Flaming Telepath (nominated by Gaz973 02/06/10)

 

Herald2Galactus (nominated by Capfreak 01/03/13)

 

... and so on.

[skypinkblu]

Thanks go to Sharon for inspiring some thought on this matter.

 

I've been concerned for years about certain Marketplace activities...shady dealings, inappropriate postings, poor grading, abuse of rules and free exposure for the non-community minded. Not only is it tiresome to have to deal with these issues, but it can also relegate the good sellers...those who have contributed a lot around here and always offered great goods and stellar service...to the role of bit-players.

 

However, rather than disbar the noobs and the disinterested, I wonder whether it would be better to put a positive spin on it and have a 'authorised dealer' stamp of approval and a seperate Marketplace area for those who have earned the badge?

 

This is clearly open for both debate and finnessing, but here's how I could see it working...

 

(1) A three-person committee is nominated from a pool of universally respected long-standing members...foolkiller, MrBedrock, DrBanner, G.A.tor, etc., etc.

 

(2) That committee considers applications from all those members wishing to be grand-fathered in. There will need to be a proven track record of multiples sales threads, exemplary customer service, full disclosure, stellar grading and glowing feedback for an application to be successful. Only a unanimous vote can grant approval.

 

(3) The initial list of 'approved sellers' will be posted to the boards and anybody who has a problem with any of the named members can send objective evidence to the committee for their consideration.

 

(4) All successful applicants will be required to pay a $25 'bond', thus funding a 'fighting fund' for use if any approved member goes off the rails and defrauds a buyer.

 

(5) The committee will notify Arch of all successful applicants and they will be allowed thread starting rights in a new Marketplace area. They will also be entitled to carry a 'seal of approval' logo in their sig line.

 

(6) At any point, newer members can apply for approved seller status, but they will need to show a long track record of many honest dealings. Again, a unanimous vote will be required for the status to be granted.

 

(7) At any point, approved seller status can be removed, but only on a unanimous vote of the committee.

 

(8) The committee can issue warnings to approved sellers who are conducting themselves in a manner not befitting their status.

 

(9) In the case of an approved seller 'going bad' and defrauding a buyer, a compensation claim will be considered by the committee and damages paid from the 'fighting fund' on the back of a unanimous vote.

 

(10) Committee members serve for one year and a new committee will be elected by board vote.

 

(11) Once the 'fighting fund' reaches a certain agreed level ($1,000, $2,000, whatever) 50% of all future bonds will be passed to a charitable cause.

 

 

I'm sure there are a number of things that I haven't considered, so feel free to plug the gaps. I personally feel that this is a better way than barring new members from selling or throwing down criteria that is quite off-putting. Let them all sell, but sort the wheat from the chaff and give everybody something to aim at. (thumbs u

 

More rules...joiner fees...and now a cabal..er..star chamber..er... "respected members" committee? Yeesh! Using this process it should take...oh.. 4 to 6 weeks to turnaround approving a seller and allow someone to start dong business in the sales forum...Get real.

 

Now I shall put on my tin-foil hat...

 

Or is the real intent here to have a select oligopoly of Power Posters rule the sales forum? This will eventually lead to price collusion, pre-approved white lists, price fixing, required commissions on sales to the cabal (lets call it a "continuous approval fee"), and finally overall corruption.

 

Over time, disgruntled forumites will eventually demand anti-trust legislation and the cabal will be impeached (banned) and cast out into the darkness (where they may congregate at the Comics Corral for several years and plan some kind of counter-revolution).

 

Members, lets really think this over before we give away our liberties in the sales forum to some High Council who think they know whats best for us.

Bill

 

I would have loved you when I was in college...

 

It's wonderful that people are coming out and sharing their thoughts, all 12 sides;)

[lizards2]

I'm left wondering what the problem is we're trying to solve. The bad sellers usually illuminate themselves quite well - it is only our greed and lust for books that allows the occasional one to prosper. :shrug:

[KryptoSpidey]

Personally, i think that we do need to have some type of system to weed out the BS and the sellers that have no intention other than trying to get "one over" on fellow boardies,BEFORE the screwing takes place.Whether it be a "Noob" or a long time member.

Is this approach the solution? I guess we will have to see how it evolves.

The "WOS" and "probation list" solution doesn't seem to cut it.You only get there by screwing over someone to start.

I just hope that this doesn't become too complicated,in a place where the ultimate goal,is FUN and ENJOYMENT for our passion of comics.

[drbanner]

And for those who consider there is no benefit to an 'approved dealer' scheme of some description, this was posted in the other thread...

 

I don` t buy or sell here because I don`t know if its safe especially buying. example is I buy $200 dollar book on Ebay and if I don`t get book I know Ebay/Paypal got me covered, what if I sent money here and then seller didn`t send books? What are the safeguards that are in place if something goes wrong with deal for this board? This is a newbie question, maybe someone can answer it.

 

'Approved dealers'? If dealers were allowed to post their wares here (even if they were posted elsewhere), then upstanding forum members and well-respected dealers such as Bob Storms, Rich Evans, and yourself (after your site goes live) could offer accurately graded books to forum members that wouldn't have to worry about being ripped off. As it is now, the weekend warriors, wanna-be dealers, and profiteering-flippers have unimpeded, open access to the sales forum while well-respected and long-established "professionals" are shut out.

 

It seems to me we want to have our cake ("No dealers allowed, I don't need the competition for my overgraded "original owner" books!" ) and eat it too (everyone selling here should offer the same accurate grading, customer service, and return policy that the big boys offer).

 

Dunno...I think a minimum time after registration (or post count) is the only viable alternative. That, and enforcing the existing guidelines by calling people out when they're out of line might help clean things up a bit.

[seank]

How about we call this new board area... CGCbay?

 

Buyers can rate sellers on how good or bad the transaction went. To see a seller's reputation, Arch could put a little number in parentheses after their name, e.g. Billy Parker(264) or Greggy(-12). Those with high reputations could get colored stars also.

 

And to help with administration of CGCbay, each seller could contribute part of their sale price to a central fund.

 

If this works, we could expand the system from pez dispensers comic books to things like action figures and Magic the Gathering cards.

 

If it really works, we could hire someone to run it to ensure smooth and continuous functionality. I bet Meg Whitman could do it after she loses the election.

 

Ok, [/sarcasm] now. I'm not so certain such a system is feasible long-term. I like the whuffie system we have here, despite its shortcomings.

[VintageComics]

Dunno...I think a minimum time after registration (or post count) is the only viable alternative. That, and enforcing the existing guidelines by calling people out when they're out of line might help clean things up a bit.

 

Gotta go with Mike here.

 

Simple is best.

 

This little thing will have the greatest impact. Other measures will be effective (and I agree with F_T's proposal in spirit) but a lot of effort for relatively little result.

 

Forcing people to "read the selling forums only" for a while will force them to see how things are done, get a feel for what is right and wrong AND motivate them to participate in other forums.

 

Again, very simple solution that accomplishes many things at once.

 

 

 

[GACollectibles]

'Approved dealers'? If dealers were allowed to post their wares here (even if they were posted elsewhere), then upstanding forum members and well-respected dealers such as Bob Storms, Rich Evans, and yourself (after your site goes live) could offer accurately graded books to forum members that wouldn't have to worry about being ripped off. As it is now, the weekend warriors, wanna-be dealers, and profiteering-flippers have unimpeded, open access to the sales forum while well-respected and long-established "professionals" are shut out.

 

It seems to me we want to have our cake ("No dealers allowed, I don't need the competition for my overgraded "original owner" books!" ) and eat it too (everyone selling here should offer the same accurate grading, customer service, and return policy that the big boys offer).

 

 

It's not a "No Dealers Allowed" Marketplace, many do sell there. The only requirement is that the products are exclusive to the Board Marketplace.

[Foolkiller]

Nick,

 

I applaud your effort and ideas, but I can't say that I'm in favor of a sub forum or any special designation for any seller.

 

The beauty of the forum sales area is that it evens out all on its own and when there's a problem, the public shaming is intense enough to act as a deterrent.

 

Any success I've had on the sales forum has been largely due to offering books at a low cost. I think offering reasonable returns, trying to grade accurately and being responsive when questions are asked are all fundamental things to being a good seller, if you are consistent in doing these things, your sales threads will generate interest.

 

Whether people are able to move books or not, to me, is not a function of their post count, but rather, what they offer. If you are offering accurately graded books with large scans, guess what, people will buy your books. If you are offering less popular books, the books sit or need to be further reduced in price to entice someone to buy. This is a pretty simple equation.

 

If you handed me a pile of Smurfs, i wouldn't move them any better than anyone else.

 

However, I see a lot of books on here at near or just below full market value. Unless they are early marvels, keys, hard to find books or classics (like Adams stuff) they are going to be more difficult to move.

 

If your books don't move, it isn't because this is some secret club on the boards -- it's a function of either your pricing, grading or material offered or some combination of all of these things.

 

With all that said, I think it's best to keep the Marketplace as easy and open as possible. I think the community does a good job of screening and more committees, regulations and rules are only bound to make it more onerous and complicated rather than free and open.

[Flaming_Telepath]

And for those who consider there is no benefit to an 'approved dealer' scheme of some description, this was posted in the other thread...

 

I don` t buy or sell here because I don`t know if its safe especially buying. example is I buy $200 dollar book on Ebay and if I don`t get book I know Ebay/Paypal got me covered, what if I sent money here and then seller didn`t send books? What are the safeguards that are in place if something goes wrong with deal for this board? This is a newbie question, maybe someone can answer it.

 

'Approved dealers'? If dealers were allowed to post their wares here (even if they were posted elsewhere), then upstanding forum members and well-respected dealers such as Bob Storms, Rich Evans, and yourself (after your site goes live) could offer accurately graded books to forum members that wouldn't have to worry about being ripped off. As it is now, the weekend warriors, wanna-be dealers, and profiteering-flippers have unimpeded, open access to the sales forum while well-respected and long-established "professionals" are shut out.

 

It seems to me we want to have our cake ("No dealers allowed, I don't need the competition for my overgraded "original owner" books!" ) and eat it too (everyone selling here should offer the same accurate grading, customer service, and return policy that the big boys offer).

 

Dunno...I think a minimum time after registration (or post count) is the only viable alternative. That, and enforcing the existing guidelines by calling people out when they're out of line might help clean things up a bit.

 

OK, it should be 'approved sellers' (as the thread title suggests) and, providing they didn't list the items anywhere else, any seller...whether full-time dealer, weekend warrior or just easily distracted...could get a stamp of approval, or a AAA rating, or a...

 

Just something that says 'hey, noob, if you're worried about transactions here, start with these guys'.

[comix4fun]

Will there be a swimsuit component to the judging?

[comicwiz]

I think the spirit of Nick's post and his suggestions have significant merit, but there are also a few suggestions here that can act as the enabler without the need to require a committee or approval process.

 

I think the answer is found somewhere in the intended design for the boards - i.e. our voice/opinion as an organic feedback mechanism.

 

We have a kudos thread and with a little tinkering around, you could have something similar to this appearing in the persons sales thread:

 

Past transaction kudos for: comicwiz (600 references)

 

Obviously, the search can be a little overly-sensitive and picks up irrelevant and duplicate posts. However IMHO this is a decent starting point.

 

Another thing I've tried to do is include a link to my eBay feedback in my signature. This might not be functional for members that turn off sigs, but I think that is an effective way to translate ones transaction history into a working model for a members reputation history. For those who have sigs turned off, here is how it looks:

 

eBay Feedback

 

Where things get tricky is when you attempt to tease out membership merit. Does merit derive exclusively from sales thread participation, or should it include community involvement, years as a member, involvement in the hobby, etc. I think any good reputation system needs to incorporate all these elements, but it isn't always easy to package it in an ID format that you can carry around with you everywhere like a drivers license.

 

I believe where things can get unnecessarily tedious is the politics. An example would be when I tried to introduce an auction widget in the sales thread. I communicated with Arch prior to launching it, and his response was let's try it out, but no promise it can stay. Even with the "trial offer" approval, the first auctions met PM's and posts of discontent.

 

Ultimately, the boards intent is to foster a community of people with like-minded interests, and in order for the community to thrive, at the core is a self-regulating human response which will always be required. While it can be moderated, trying to categorize and cram this notion into more structured and confining ways won't be easy, nor is it a given that it will it be well-received, even if it's meant to safeguard the wider interests of this community of collectors.