Time to Stir the pot... Overstreet grading vs CGC grading

[WEBHEAD]

I try to make my threads that are started selective, but this time I'm going to try to stir the pot.

 

As we all know CGC's grading policy is a highly guarded secret, next to the formula for Coke. Sure we have 10 years of products, but it seems that even 90+% of the books graded seem to hit on target, there are many that when sent in carefully packed miss the mark either by 1 or 2 point which can be a swing of major invested $$$.

 

 

Also I'm throwing out the gauntlent when those of us we are BSD and LCS when you are grading a raw book do you use

 

 

 

1. Overstreets highly documented policy which as a 30+ year history plus 3 very nice books?

 

2. Use CGC grading?

 

3. Your own secret method?

 

4. Throw the book on the ceiling and see if it sticks

 

Also is there enough graded books by CGC to start a thread showing board for one book in all the 10-.5 catagories. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

Also one thing that burns me up as well was the removal of the notes field for many of the books. Comics are graded by 3 sources pregrade, first grader, and senior grader. Shouldn't one of them have some documented notes? Do they keep detailed notes for restored books I'm not really sure.

 

 

 

Now that I've stirred the pot let the games begin.

 

 

 

WEBHEAD

 

 

 

[JasonNewcomb]

This is very interesting to a noob like me. Can you explain the acronyms BSD and LSC?

[3319comics]

WHeres the poll and pictures, orthless w/o them

[plasticide-migration]

This is very interesting to a noob like me. Can you explain the acronyms BSD and LSC?

 

BSD is usually Big Swinging aka Big Shot Dealer and it should be LCS, Local Comic Shop.

[Jeffro.]

This is very interesting to a noob like me. Can you explain the acronyms BSD and LSC?

 

He's another grad of the comicalgems school of abbreviations.

[plasticide-migration]

Also one thing that burns me up as well was the removal of the notes field for many of the books. Comics are graded by 3 sources pregrade, first grader, and senior grader. Shouldn't one of them have some documented notes? Do they keep detailed notes for restored books I'm not really sure.

 

Call 1-877-NMCOMICS for graders' notes.

[The Less Blob]

My own secret method. Most things seem to wind up G/VG, VG/Fine, F/VF or VF/NM as I have a hard time commiting.

 

One issue I have with CGC is heinous production defects and "bindery tears" apparenently not meaning much. I'm a little more on the fence about date stamps, though it does seem that some handwritten (particularly grease pencil) notations put on by the newstand do really detract from the cover.

 

I suppose there are things I think they are too harsh on in the better grades, but I can't think of anything right now, other than the occasional 9.0 where you wonder "what's wrong with that book that I can't see?", but it doesn't happen that often.

 

I think they are randomly a bit too harsh (sometimes) on 2.5 - 5.0 books and not so consistent. I see 2 - 2.5s that look like good VGs and 2.0 - 2.5s that should be fair or poor and it's not just being harsher with SA than GA.

[Mac Man]

My own secret method. Most things seem to wind up G/VG, VG/Fine, F/VF or VF/NM as I have a hard time commiting.

 

One issue I have with CGC is heinous production defects and "bindery tears" apparenently not meaning much. I'm a little more on the fence about date stamps, though it does seem that some handwritten (particularly grease pencil) notations put on by the newstand do really detract from the cover.

 

I suppose there are things I think they are too harsh on in the better grades, but I can't think of anything right now, other than the occasional 9.0 where you wonder "what's wrong with that book that I can't see?", but it doesn't happen that often.

 

I think they are randomly a bit too harsh (sometimes) on 2.5 - 5.0 books and not so consistent. I see 2 - 2.5s that look like good VGs and 2.0 - 2.5s that should be fair or poor and it's not just being harsher with SA than GA.

 

When I first started collecting, I used to give books an explicit grade--now, I typically assign them a grade range. My VG could be one person's VG/FN and another's G/VG. That said, I do try to keep my range as close to .5 margin as possible though some books are trickier so I'll give it a 1.0 margin.

 

I did use the Overstreet Grading Guide as the basis for much of how I grade--though many of the photo examples provided in the 2nd edition aren't always good examples of the grade. Where they are useful, however, is in providing examples of what some defects look like in case the definition isn't 100% clear.

[plasticide-migration]

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=34&s=259&ai=43753&ssd=7/19/2003&arch=y

 

CGC To Adopt Overstreet Grading System

 

"CGC's Steve Borock has announced that due to the tremendous response within the industry, CGC has decided to fully adopt the Overstreet grading standards for their grading service!"

 

This lasted about 3 weeks before they backpedaled from this announcement.

 

"President Steve Eichenbaum stated that although the company had adopted the Overstreet standards, CGC's standards remained unchanged. Eichenbaum cited the 2002 publication of the 2nd edition of The Official Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide – with input from CGC's graders – as the reason for the announcement, stating that "there is now little difference between Overstreet and CGC."

 

In reporting on the subject, Comics Buyer's Guide reporter Nathan Melby asked, "Who adopted whose standards?"

[JasonNewcomb]

I'll give my small opinion here. I am learning to grade a blend of overstreet and my LCS's way. Basically the only market I trade, buy and sell into happens in my local scene so something that might be a certain grade according to overstreet, CGC or myself might be another one according to my LCS or local collectors. Basically I just try to assess the condition of a book according to if I can buy or sell it around here.

[plasticide-migration]

I'll give my small opinion here. I am learning to grade a blend of overstreet and my LCS's way. Basically the only market I trade, buy and sell into happens in my local scene so something that might be a certain grade according to overstreet, CGC or myself might be another one according to my LCS or local collectors. Basically I just try to assess the condition of a book according to if I can buy or sell it around here.

 

Expand your horizons, dude! (thumbs u

[Mac Man]

I'll give my small opinion here. I am learning to grade a blend of overstreet and my LCS's way. Basically the only market I trade, buy and sell into happens in my local scene so something that might be a certain grade according to overstreet, CGC or myself might be another one according to my LCS or local collectors. Basically I just try to assess the condition of a book according to if I can buy or sell it around here.

 

Could be problematic if you ever leave your local area though or try to sell your books. One of the LCSs near where I lived is NOTORIOUS for cover grading. I wouldn't swear to it but I think I even remember hearing something to the effect that most of the grade is in the cover itself! I'm not saying your store is grossly negligent like that, but it force you into a more limited POV through adopting the biases of one particular owner/store---even if they are generally good at grading.

[Mr. Zipper]

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=34&s=259&ai=43753&ssd=7/19/2003&arch=y

 

CGC To Adopt Overstreet Grading System

 

"CGC's Steve Borock has announced that due to the tremendous response within the industry, CGC has decided to fully adopt the Overstreet grading standards for their grading service!"

 

This lasted about 3 weeks before they backpedaled from this announcement.

 

"President Steve Eichenbaum stated that although the company had adopted the Overstreet standards, CGC's standards remained unchanged. Eichenbaum cited the 2002 publication of the 2nd edition of The Official Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide – with input from CGC's graders – as the reason for the announcement, stating that "there is now little difference between Overstreet and CGC."

 

In reporting on the subject, Comics Buyer's Guide reporter Nathan Melby asked, "Who adopted whose standards?"

 

Make no mistake, CGC's grading system is 90% based on Overstreet. The only "CGC secret" is the methodology they use to apply the standards.

 

The 10% that is not based on Overstreet is likely small idiosyncrasies of the people at CGC who train the graders to interpret the standards. If Borock hates spine bends, he's going to be tougher on them and train his graders to be the same way. If someone at CGC decided that staple replacement should not be allowed, they'll diverge from OS standards there. If Mark Haspel is tougher on foxing, the organization under his guidance is going to be ding books more for foxing than perhaps they did before.

[Bill Robinson]

As far as grading the way my lcs does, I live in Colorado, the home of Mile High Comics. Their motto seems to be "If we're selling, its 2.0 better than Overstreet and if we're buying, its 2.0 less."

Meanwhile Time Warp in Boulder is, if anything, guilty of undergrading everything by .5 - 1, but they use the OSPG for prices. This way, the customer always feels like they are getting a deal.

 

I try to grade with the OSPG standards in mind, but with an eye toward what I have seen from CGC when it comes to ultra high grade books. For instance, if OSPG would grade a book a NM, I try to determine if CGC would go 9.4, 9.6 or 9.8 based on other books I have gotten graded and seen in person.

 

[Boboset]

I try and follow CGC grading as my personal standard, but I'll take eye appeal any day over technical grade.

[fantastic_four]

1. Overstreets highly documented policy which as a 30+ year history plus 3 very nice books?

 

2. Use CGC grading?

 

3. Your own secret method?

 

4. Throw the book on the ceiling and see if it sticks

 

I use a blend of all four of these, except that I don't consider my method secret in that I'm willing to disclose anything I do that isn't explicitly defined by Overstreet or CGC.

 

What books don't get notes--are you talking about cheaper modern books? That's a complaint purely about money and CGC policy as opposed to comic book grading standards...I'm guessing that they don't consider notes documentation to be price effective for the lower-cost tiers.

[fantastic_four]

Make no mistake, CGC's grading system is 90% based on Overstreet. The only "CGC secret" is the methodology they use to apply the standards.

 

The 10% that is not based on Overstreet is likely small idiosyncrasies of the people at CGC who train the graders to interpret the standards. If Borock hates spine bends, he's going to be tougher on them and train his graders to be the same way. If someone at CGC decided that staple replacement should not be allowed, they'll diverge from OS standards there. If Mark Haspel is tougher on foxing, the organization under his guidance is going to be ding books more for foxing than perhaps they did before.

 

+1

 

Borock announcing they were "adopting Overstreet standards" was almost certainly pure PR as opposed to any actual change in their standards...their standards were already so similar to CGC's--and Overstreet altered his own standards to match CGC's when he revised his grading guide--that it was a moot point.

[The Less Blob]

One of the LCSs near where I lived is NOTORIOUS for cover grading. I wouldn't swear to it but I think I even remember hearing something to the effect that most of the grade is in the cover itself!

 

------------

 

within reason, I think that most collectors and CGc would probably agree. I kindah think that most collectors consider a crease on an interior page to be less of a negative to the overall grade than a crease on the front cover (ditto for a small page rip vs. a small rip on the cover). And honestly, I think a crease on the back ad page isn't as bad as a crease on the front, though it's a little subjective I suppose. A crease on the back (particularly on a white back, where it is less of an eyesore) is going to preclude it from being NM or NM- regardless, but would you say an otherwise perfect book can't be NM- because page 12 had a corner fold at some point? An interior non-story impacting clipped coupon is worse than a coupon clipped from the back cover. Heck, CGC (and OPG) don't care about page color until you get into the tan and brittle range.

[The Less Blob]

Make no mistake, CGC's grading system is 90% based on Overstreet. The only "CGC secret" is the methodology they use to apply the standards.

 

The 10% that is not based on Overstreet is likely small idiosyncrasies of the people at CGC who train the graders to interpret the standards. If Borock hates spine bends, he's going to be tougher on them and train his graders to be the same way. If someone at CGC decided that staple replacement should not be allowed, they'll diverge from OS standards there. If Mark Haspel is tougher on foxing, the organization under his guidance is going to be ding books more for foxing than perhaps they did before.

 

+1

 

Borock announcing they were "adopting Overstreet standards" was almost certainly pure PR as opposed to any actual change in their standards...their standards were already so similar to CGC's--and Overstreet altered his own standards to match CGC's when he revised his grading guide--that it was a moot point.

 

I dunno, I think CGC has deviated somewhat from OPG in the 2.5 - 5.0/6.0 (maybe even up to 7.0) range for SA and BA in that they're a bit rougher on those books. Or so it seems. I haven't owned that many of them and maybe they've gotten nicer over the years.

[WEBHEAD]

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=34&s=259&ai=43753&ssd=7/19/2003&arch=y

 

CGC To Adopt Overstreet Grading System

 

"CGC's Steve Borock has announced that due to the tremendous response within the industry, CGC has decided to fully adopt the Overstreet grading standards for their grading service!"

 

This lasted about 3 weeks before they backpedaled from this announcement.

 

"President Steve Eichenbaum stated that although the company had adopted the Overstreet standards, CGC's standards remained unchanged. Eichenbaum cited the 2002 publication of the 2nd edition of The Official Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide – with input from CGC's graders – as the reason for the announcement, stating that "there is now little difference between Overstreet and CGC."

 

In reporting on the subject, Comics Buyer's Guide reporter Nathan Melby asked, "Who adopted whose standards?"

 

 

This is exactly what I mean, I've seen books that according to Overstreet's standard would be a 7.0 or 6.5 show up as a 6.0 which is a significant drop in investment value. When you call in seems that no apparent notes are made to back up the grading. I really think it's about time 10 years that CCG provide a detailed list of items that it takes points off and specific examples.

 

One other question how many graders does CGC employ and is there any quality assurance that graders are being consistant?

 

Another to use a corporate "lingo" is CGC a six sigma business (this means zero defects) if so what sigma might you give to them?

 

WEBHEAD