Looking for thoughts on the hobby's darkside

[inovrmihd]

After having read a large number of posts, disillusionment with the hobby (or at the very least, a sense of cynicism) seems to be a common theme. Frankly, this is just the opposite of my experences reaching out to other collectors on the CAF site, who uniformally seemed to be helpful (of course I could just be naive). In any event, I was wondering if the more expericed members would mind elaborating on their bad experieces, if for no other reasons than to serve as cautionary lessons. One of the things I have heard is that Heritage should not be trusted (they are really a dealer, they own a lot of the pieces in their auctions, they use shills, etc.). In the modern (not comic related) art market, it is common practice to build up hype on a particular artist that a dealer has a lot of inventory of and then engage others to bid up prices at auction. I would think this would be much harder to do with OA (it would be difficult to take someone whose art no one thought highly of and after a few years proclaim him or her a star), but on teh other hand, it seems as though one huge sale of anyone sets the bar higher for every peice, at least on the high end of things (If the DD cover is worth over $100k, the art I am selling should be worth at least X). I would be interested in hearing other's thoughts. Also, how much of the disillusionment has been due to the "pricing out" of many collectors in recent years. Are people simply upset that money has replaced passion ("I can't afford the price of the art I really want because some Wall Street trader, Hollywood acter/producer or general rich guy decides it catches his fancy")? Are the problems with the hobby limited to the higher priced pieces? Are there other reasons people are cynical? Alternatively, am I making a big deal out of nothing? I look forward to hearing other's thoughts. Any specific examples woud be extremely helpful.

[CollectingFool]

Well, for starters you'll find people are more willing to talk openly and share information when they know who they are speaking to. I think if you introduce yourself properly with your name and maybe a CAF site with the few pieces you've picked up already you'll find people willing to jump in and start sharing info. It would be great if you added that as a signature to the bottom of your posts too.

 

If you've done this already and I missed the post, I apologize. Please just link to the post in which you put your info.

 

 

 

 

[heartened]

After having read a large number of posts, disillusionment with the hobby (or at the very least, a sense of cynicism) seems to be a common theme. Frankly, this is just the opposite of my experences reaching out to other collectors on the CAF site, who uniformally seemed to be helpful (of course I could just be naive). In any event, I was wondering if the more expericed members would mind elaborating on their bad experieces, if for no other reasons than to serve as cautionary lessons. One of the things I have heard is that Heritage should not be trusted (they are really a dealer, they own a lot of the pieces in their auctions, they use shills, etc.). In the modern (not comic related) art market, it is common practice to build up hype on a particular artist that a dealer has a lot of inventory of and then engage others to bid up prices at auction. I would think this would be much harder to do with OA (it would be difficult to take someone whose art no one thought highly of and after a few years proclaim him or her a star), but on teh other hand, it seems as though one huge sale of anyone sets the bar higher for every peice, at least on the high end of things (If the DD cover is worth over $100k, the art I am selling should be worth at least X). I would be interested in hearing other's thoughts. Also, how much of the disillusionment has been due to the "pricing out" of many collectors in recent years. Are people simply upset that money has replaced passion ("I can't afford the price of the art I really want because some Wall Street trader, Hollywood acter/producer or general rich guy decides it catches his fancy")? Are the problems with the hobby limited to the higher priced pieces? Are there other reasons people are cynical? Alternatively, am I making a big deal out of nothing? I look forward to hearing other's thoughts. Any specific examples woud be extremely helpful.

 

There will always be people who focus more on the negative than the positive. As prices rise, there certainly is more questionable behavior, but we see this in everything from Wall Street transactions to other day to day issues we all deal with. I find it's much healthier to focus on the positive, and would recommend you do the same. Always watch where you leap, of course, but do not use the negatives as an excuse not to leap at all. Just my two cents, but it's worked for me so far.

 

 

[Pirate]

This is Krazy talk

[*paull*]

The first post by this person was an attempt to establish himself as a collector like the rest of us, and now with the second post, here comes the real agenda. Don't feed.

[inovrmihd]

What exactly do you suppose my real agenda is, Paul? I am trying to learn what I can so I can avoid getting screwed. I ahve seen references to scummy behavior but little in the way of specifics. For anyone that is worried I am trying to spread ill will, please respond privately.

 

- Andrew

[Pirate]

What exactly do you suppose my real agenda is, Paul? I am trying to learn what I can so I can avoid getting screwed. I ahve seen references to scummy behavior but little in the way of specifics. For anyone that is worried I am trying to spread ill will, please respond privately.

 

- Andrew

 

it's more fun here

[inovrmihd]

This thread is not being taken in the manner it was intended. I am going to request that it be closed down.

[dem1138]

Andrew,

 

If the thread isn't being taken in the manner which you intended it to be, then perhaps you need to read through some of the comments a little more closely to understand why. Original art collectors, by nature, are cagey with the kind of information you are seeking, especially when we have no idea who you are. You signed your previous post with your name for the first time, so now we know you have a first name. However, I think people would be a lot more comfortable responding to your probing questions if you were a little more forthcoming about yourself. We understand that your described motivation is that your intent is pure, but frankly, too many people here are skeptics, and therefore, we're inclined not to believe or trust you until you are a little more forthcoming about yourself (i.e. - who are you? where are you from? etc.) because you came out of the blue looking for some very big pieces. Being new here, you have no context for the fact that you are not the first, and you probably won't be the last person to have done this. And your predecessors have not built a positive track record for you. The fact is also that many OA collectors are private and work very hard to develop the kind of information that you seek. Much of the information you ask about is information that is better ascertained in person - at shows or dinners, etc. Unfortunately, and this isn't your fault, the OA section of these boards is not the open environment you seem to be seeing. If you want to discuss the types of topics you are interested in on this message board, you are much better off contributing to one of the many other chats on this board with regards to comics. You will find the commenters there to be much more forthcoming with the kind of information that you seek, but about comic books. With GPA and a plethora of comic dealers and collectors, you will find the information flows much more freely about comic books. Perhaps OA collectors only have ourselves to blame for keeping so much information private, but when you think about it more, it makes sense. These collectors are, for the most part, extremely passionate, and they are looking for items of which there exists only one. To share information openly can inhibit their ability to obtain these items with discretion.

Perhaps you'll make it out to one of the many conventions and/or dinners that occur and you will find that many OA collectors are wonderful people in person and are much more willing to discuss openly the topics that interest you.

 

--David E. Miller