The Overstreet Price Guide - Obsolete and outdated?

[Mark 1]

Here is my .02 cents...

 

Since getting into collecting again I bought the OS price guide and I saw that prices for CGC books are just not in line with the suggested value of OS raw books.

 

In fact even raw books are in some cases are going above guide for keys.

 

I think if this continues the OS price guide will become a dinosaur and fall in the wake of GPA and other online sources of tracking actual sales pricing.

 

To me it would seem that Overstreet must adapt to compete in the CGC world or they are going to fade away.

 

When you see most key books that are selling above guide pricing it really hits home how out of date and touch the guide really is...

 

I'm curious about your thoughts....

[heartened]

I used to think the same way, but on deeper reflection I believe the Overstreet method of incremental price adjustments is healthier for the hobby, and far more important for the stability of the hobby. Actual sales on key books have always been multiples of Overstreet pricing, starting long before CGC was born. As for having Overstreet better reflect the crazy and volatile pricing in the high-end CGC market, that would not be at all good for the hobby; do you really want the Overstreet guide to show ups and downs in pricing from year to year?

 

 

[jjonahjameson1]

do you really want the Overstreet guide to show ups and downs in pricing from year to year?

 

 

Precedent was already set by Overstreet back in the late 1980s/early 1990s when his Overstreet Bulletin/Update were published bi-monthly and then monthly to capitalize on the insane run up on Silver Age.

 

The publications' primary focus was to provide an accurate price on the most volitile segment of the comics market during that time, and Overstreet would indicate % increase from prior month for each book listed in his update (entire runs of Marvel and DC Silver and Bronze).

 

I found the information to be invaluable and I would certainly welcome more up-to-date information from Overstreet. The OPG has definately lost a lot of lusture as a price guide, but I think it is still useful for reference information such as 1st appearances, artist citings, and some nice photos of comics I'd otherwise never see.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Here is my .02 cents...

 

Since getting into collecting again I bought the OS price guide and I saw that prices for CGC books are just not in line with the suggested value of OS raw books.

 

In fact even raw books are in some cases are going above guide for keys.

 

I think if this continues the OS price guide will become a dinosaur and fall in the wake of GPA and other online sources of tracking actual sales pricing.

 

To me it would seem that Overstreet must adapt to compete in the CGC world or they are going to fade away.

 

When you see most key books that are selling above guide pricing it really hits home how out of date and touch the guide really is...

 

I'm curious about your thoughts....

I use a combination of GPA,COMICLINK,EBAY and yes Overstreet to get a overall market run down, remember GPA and Comiclink are mostly tracking slabbed books,while Ebay and Overstreet tend to track raw better. So you actually have lots more pricing when you do nm vs CGC 9.6, the old days were a lot simpler when it was mint,fine and good but let`s face it there is no such thing as a truly mint comic.

[Silver]

OS does not track raw sales overall. They try to set pricing mostly by using across the board increases year to year.

 

Indespensible as a reference guiide, unreliable as a price guide.

[peewee22]

Here is my .02 cents...

 

Since getting into collecting again I bought the OS price guide and I saw that prices for CGC books are just not in line with the suggested value of OS raw books.

 

In fact even raw books are in some cases are going above guide for keys.

 

I think if this continues the OS price guide will become a dinosaur and fall in the wake of GPA and other online sources of tracking actual sales pricing.

 

To me it would seem that Overstreet must adapt to compete in the CGC world or they are going to fade away.

 

When you see most key books that are selling above guide pricing it really hits home how out of date and touch the guide really is...

 

I'm curious about your thoughts....

 

Overstreet will never fade away.

 

Bob was the first and still the best.

[jjonahjameson1]

Here is my .02 cents...

 

Since getting into collecting again I bought the OS price guide and I saw that prices for CGC books are just not in line with the suggested value of OS raw books.

 

In fact even raw books are in some cases are going above guide for keys.

 

I think if this continues the OS price guide will become a dinosaur and fall in the wake of GPA and other online sources of tracking actual sales pricing.

 

To me it would seem that Overstreet must adapt to compete in the CGC world or they are going to fade away.

 

When you see most key books that are selling above guide pricing it really hits home how out of date and touch the guide really is...

 

I'm curious about your thoughts....

 

Overstreet will never fade away.

 

Bob was the first and still the best.

 

Well, Bob's not getting any younger, and once the link between Overstreet + Price Guide is lost, I think you will see a rapid deterioration of loyalty...UNLESS he gets with the times and publishes online with Monthly or Bi-monthly updates.

[thehumantorch]

I still love Overstreet. They were the only source of pricing info for me for many years. Today their prices are out of whack but I still use it to look up prices and then adjust based on condition and desirability of the book. Mid grade SA books get an immediate Walmart price slash of at least 50%.

 

Overstreet is worth the $$ just for all of the non-price information contained inside.

[Hey Kids, Comics!]

The lack of updates is what makes it a unreliable source for pricing. New Mutants 98 is the perfect example. I think in the latest update it is still a $5 book in 9.2 : 9.4 routinely bring $100 and it's hard to find a VF copy for under $40. It's great for older books that have no trends happening with it, but for anything with any buzz, throw it out the window. As far as reference goes.........invaluable!

[Silver]

Here is my .02 cents...

 

Since getting into collecting again I bought the OS price guide and I saw that prices for CGC books are just not in line with the suggested value of OS raw books.

 

In fact even raw books are in some cases are going above guide for keys.

 

I think if this continues the OS price guide will become a dinosaur and fall in the wake of GPA and other online sources of tracking actual sales pricing.

 

To me it would seem that Overstreet must adapt to compete in the CGC world or they are going to fade away.

 

When you see most key books that are selling above guide pricing it really hits home how out of date and touch the guide really is...

 

I'm curious about your thoughts....

 

Overstreet will never fade away.

 

Bob was the first and still the best.

 

this year's release at Comic-Con was months after the traditional release and does not bode well for how they are doing....

[Wayne-Tec]

I've thought about this as well.

 

But I think there are some good reasons that the OSPG does not reflect (as accurately as we might like) the actual realized prices in the market.

 

The first major reason is that we often compare how the guide values raw books to how well CGC-graded books sell. CGC is a paid service that delivers a restoration check (perhaps the most important aspect), a more qualified grade than the average eBay seller can deliver, and the protection of the slab which is also an added bonus for collectors like myself who enjoy books that are slabbed more than books that are raw if for nothing else than the way they are protected.

 

Now, to assume that the guide should reflect the figures of CGC graded books is to throw all of the reasons collectors value and pay for the CGC service out the window; it's just not the same thing as a raw book thus, an added premium should be expected.

 

The next aspect to think about...market trends. Many stay stable while others go up and down at the drop of a dime. If the OSPG printed 2008 CGC-graded values for AF #15 (for instance), would we really have been any better off using those figures as a reference during a time in which the FMV dropped over the course of the next year?

 

The concept of having them publish semi-annual updates is an interesting one but one that I'm sure they would take full advantage of if they had the money and resources to make it a profitable endeavour. I'm not saying it wouldn't be; I'm just saying that there must be a reason we have not seen it happen already.

 

The OSPG does the best job it can of trying to maintain stability in a somewhat unstable market; that's a hard thing to do. I have no problem with the annual values climbing at a pretty regular but stable rate. A greater cause for concern is not so much that many of the books seem to go up like clock-work but rather, that the guide continues to value certain books above others that have out-sold their counterparts for years.

 

I've heard people discuss the fact that Batman #11 has been valued ahead of Superman #14 despite the fact that Superman #14 sells for higher figures and has continued to do so for years (I'm not sure if this is true so feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken). If the actual figures cannot reflect the market accurately, at least make sure that you establish a proper sense of hierarchy. That might not be practical to expect within one year's time but if trends continue year after year, it might be time for a slight adjustment.

 

My next issue is with the OSPG being valued as the ultimate reference guide. True, there are so many details regarding first appearences, origins, etc. that the guide provides but at the same time, they continue to re-print errors year after year that to me are unacceptable.

 

For years they stated that Batman #4 was the third appearence of the Joker when in every sense (both in terms of story progression and newsstand release date) it was the fourth. If you're going to take the time to print it, you'd better be sure that your information is correct or else you might very well lead people to buy books under false assumptions. Errors happen but to continue to reprint them over and over again (as was the case with the Joker example I just gave) just makes it appear as though you either don't notice or you don't care enough to make the correction.

 

I wrote to them last year about the Joker error and for the first time since I began collecting comics, they finally corrected the error in last year's guide (although I never received a response from them so call it coincidence if you will).

 

For those of you who tend to notice these same types of errors and wonder why, you might find this little bit of research to be most intriguing...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=188967&Number=3930098#Post3930098

 

Some seem to criticize the guide for its pricing yet value it for its reference function; strange that to some slight degrees, I feel the exact opposite (perhaps I'm in the minority).

 

But to be fair, we could pick apart little aspects all day long if we wanted to. The OSPG is over a thousand pages long and for every pricing error or reference error we stumble upon, I'm sure there are hundreds of correct bits of reference information and plenty of people out there who still use the OSPG as the "guide" in which to guide them to buy and sell comics.

 

Regardless of everything stated above, I'll be sure to pick up my copy for the 9th year in a row.

[Jeffro.]

..UNLESS he gets with the times and publishes online with Monthly or Bi-monthly updates.

 

They did that once.

[Jeffro.]

What's interesting is that plenty of collectors and dealers still use OS for pricing, or at least as a base for pricing.

 

Everyone can get up on their high horse and decry that OS is hopelessly outdated, but currently we don't have anything better. If OS were to suddenly vanish, what would fill that void? It can't be GPA as that only tracks realized prices of slabbed books.

[jjonahjameson1]

..UNLESS he gets with the times and publishes online with Monthly or Bi-monthly updates.

 

They did that once.

 

Really?

[Silver]

What's interesting is that plenty of collectors and dealers still use OS for pricing, or at least as a base for pricing.

 

Everyone can get up on their high horse and decry that OS is hopelessly outdated, but currently we don't have anything better. If OS were to suddenly vanish, what would fill that void? It can't be GPA as that only tracks realized prices of slabbed books.

 

Jeffro,

 

When I go to a con and see the major dealers....

 

They sell GPA and whip out OS when they buy....

[jjonahjameson1]

There's so much to respond to, I think I'll just use red font, and perhaps we can have a friendly discussion

 

I've thought about this as well.

 

But I think there are some good reasons that the OSPG does not reflect (as accurately as we might like) the actual realized prices in the market.

 

The first major reason is that we often compare how the guide values raw books to how well CGC-graded books sell. CGC is a paid service that delivers a restoration check (perhaps the most important aspect), a more qualified grade than the average eBay seller can deliver, and the protection of the slab which is also an added bonus for collectors like myself who enjoy books that are slabbed more than books that are raw if for nothing else than the way they are protected.

 

Now, to assume that the guide should reflect the figures of CGC graded books is to throw all of the reasons collectors value and pay for the CGC service out the window; it's just not the same thing as a raw book thus, an added premium should be expected.

 

The next aspect to think about...market trends. Many stay stable while others go up and down at the drop of a dime. If the OSPG printed 2008 CGC-graded values for AF #15 (for instance), would we really have been any better off using those figures as a reference during a time in which the FMV dropped over the course of the next year? Kind of a moot point considering Dealer input and market reports are required in October and the Guide is usually available for sale six months later, in April. However, this year, the book is being made available even later, in July to coincide with San Diego.

 

The concept of having them publish semi-annual updates is an interesting one but one that I'm sure they would take full advantage of if they had the money and resources to make it a profitable endeavour. I'm not saying it wouldn't be; I'm just saying that there must be a reason we have not seen it happen already. As mentioned previously on this thread, Overstreet alredy did that, and I'm certain it was profitable because they published updates for several years. Ultimately, I believe the reason they stopped is because they lost out to Wizard.

The OSPG does the best job it can of trying to maintain stability in a somewhat unstable market; that's a hard thing to do. I have no problem with the annual values climbing at a pretty regular but stable rate. A greater cause for concern is not so much that many of the books seem to go up like clock-work but rather, that the guide continues to value certain books above others that have out-sold their counterparts for years. So the mandate of the Overstreet is to maintain stability in an unstable market? That's good...for the dealer's that use it to their advantage when purchasing/advertising along the lines of: I will pay a higher % of Overstreet for a NM-9.2 AF15. Meanwhile, the book in 9.2 was worth multiples of Overstreet, rather than a percentage thereof. It is to the dealer's advantage that Overstreet artificially 'flattens' the true value of a book.

 

I've heard people discuss the fact that Batman #11 has been valued ahead of Superman #14 despite the fact that Superman #14 sells for higher figures and has continued to do so for years (I'm not sure if this is true so feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken). If the actual figures cannot reflect the market accurately, at least make sure that you establish a proper sense of hierarchy. That might not be practical to expect within one year's time but if trends continue year after year, it might be time for a slight adjustment.

 

My next issue is with the OSPG being valued as the ultimate reference guide. True, there are so many details regarding first appearences, origins, etc. that the guide provides but at the same time, they continue to re-print errors year after year that to me are unacceptable. An old publisher's trick to prove copyright infringements. I have no doubt that nearly every page has an error, but the errors are intentional.

For years they stated that Batman #4 was the third appearence of the Joker when in every sense (both in terms of story progression and newsstand release date) it was the fourth. If you're going to take the time to print it, you'd better be sure that your information is correct or else you might very well lead people to buy books under false assumptions. Errors happen but to continue to reprint them over and over again (as was the case with the Joker example I just gave) just makes it appear as though you either don't notice or you don't care enough to make the correction.

 

I wrote to them last year about the Joker error and for the first time since I began collecting comics, they finally corrected the error in last year's guide (although I never received a response from them so call it coincidence if you will).

 

For those of you who tend to notice these same types of errors and wonder why, you might find this little bit of research to be most intriguing...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=188967&Number=3930098#Post3930098

 

Some seem to criticize the guide for its pricing yet value it for its reference function; strange that to some slight degrees, I feel the exact opposite (perhaps I'm in the minority).

 

But to be fair, we could pick apart little aspects all day long if we wanted to. The OSPG is over a thousand pages long and for every pricing error or reference error we stumble upon, I'm sure there are hundreds of correct bits of reference information and plenty of people out there who still use the OSPG as the "guide" in which to guide them to buy and sell comics.

 

Regardless of everything stated above, I'll be sure to pick up my copy for the 9th year in a row.

[Wayne-Tec]

There's so much to respond to, I think I'll just use red font, and perhaps we can have a friendly discussion

 

I've thought about this as well.

 

But I think there are some good reasons that the OSPG does not reflect (as accurately as we might like) the actual realized prices in the market.

 

The first major reason is that we often compare how the guide values raw books to how well CGC-graded books sell. CGC is a paid service that delivers a restoration check (perhaps the most important aspect), a more qualified grade than the average eBay seller can deliver, and the protection of the slab which is also an added bonus for collectors like myself who enjoy books that are slabbed more than books that are raw if for nothing else than the way they are protected.

 

Now, to assume that the guide should reflect the figures of CGC graded books is to throw all of the reasons collectors value and pay for the CGC service out the window; it's just not the same thing as a raw book thus, an added premium should be expected.

 

The next aspect to think about...market trends. Many stay stable while others go up and down at the drop of a dime. If the OSPG printed 2008 CGC-graded values for AF #15 (for instance), would we really have been any better off using those figures as a reference during a time in which the FMV dropped over the course of the next year? Kind of a moot point considering Dealer input and market reports are required in October and the Guide is usually available for sale six months later, in April. However, this year, the book is being made available even later, in July to coincide with San Diego.

 

The concept of having them publish semi-annual updates is an interesting one but one that I'm sure they would take full advantage of if they had the money and resources to make it a profitable endeavour. I'm not saying it wouldn't be; I'm just saying that there must be a reason we have not seen it happen already. As mentioned previously on this thread, Overstreet alredy did that, and I'm certain it was profitable because they published updates for several years. Ultimately, I believe the reason they stopped is because they lost out to Wizard.

The OSPG does the best job it can of trying to maintain stability in a somewhat unstable market; that's a hard thing to do. I have no problem with the annual values climbing at a pretty regular but stable rate. A greater cause for concern is not so much that many of the books seem to go up like clock-work but rather, that the guide continues to value certain books above others that have out-sold their counterparts for years. So the mandate of the Overstreet is to maintain stability in an unstable market? That's good...for the dealer's that use it to their advantage when purchasing/advertising along the lines of: I will pay a higher % of Overstreet for a NM-9.2 AF15. Meanwhile, the book in 9.2 was worth multiples of Overstreet, rather than a percentage thereof. It is to the dealer's advantage that Overstreet artificially 'flattens' the true value of a book.

 

I've heard people discuss the fact that Batman #11 has been valued ahead of Superman #14 despite the fact that Superman #14 sells for higher figures and has continued to do so for years (I'm not sure if this is true so feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken). If the actual figures cannot reflect the market accurately, at least make sure that you establish a proper sense of hierarchy. That might not be practical to expect within one year's time but if trends continue year after year, it might be time for a slight adjustment.

 

My next issue is with the OSPG being valued as the ultimate reference guide. True, there are so many details regarding first appearences, origins, etc. that the guide provides but at the same time, they continue to re-print errors year after year that to me are unacceptable. An old publisher's trick to prove copyright infringements. I have no doubt that nearly every page has an error, but the errors are intentional.

For years they stated that Batman #4 was the third appearence of the Joker when in every sense (both in terms of story progression and newsstand release date) it was the fourth. If you're going to take the time to print it, you'd better be sure that your information is correct or else you might very well lead people to buy books under false assumptions. Errors happen but to continue to reprint them over and over again (as was the case with the Joker example I just gave) just makes it appear as though you either don't notice or you don't care enough to make the correction.

 

I wrote to them last year about the Joker error and for the first time since I began collecting comics, they finally corrected the error in last year's guide (although I never received a response from them so call it coincidence if you will).

 

For those of you who tend to notice these same types of errors and wonder why, you might find this little bit of research to be most intriguing...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=188967&Number=3930098#Post3930098

 

Some seem to criticize the guide for its pricing yet value it for its reference function; strange that to some slight degrees, I feel the exact opposite (perhaps I'm in the minority).

 

But to be fair, we could pick apart little aspects all day long if we wanted to. The OSPG is over a thousand pages long and for every pricing error or reference error we stumble upon, I'm sure there are hundreds of correct bits of reference information and plenty of people out there who still use the OSPG as the "guide" in which to guide them to buy and sell comics.

 

Regardless of everything stated above, I'll be sure to pick up my copy for the 9th year in a row.

 

The point I was trying to make with the reference to market trends wasn't so much that when we get the guide, it's up to date; but that trying to reflect some of the explosive trends might not always be the best thing to do either.

 

Not because I want the guide to be deceptive; I'm not trying to say that it should intentionally publish lower figures than we see realized in the open market just because. It brings me back to the point I was trying to make about seeing a continual trend over extended periods of time (where to draw that line, I'm not so certain).

 

If a particular issue gets hot for a rather brief period of time (lets say around the time a new movie comes out) but then looses steam shortly there after, I don't think it's the best idea in the world to publish those inflated figures for the use in a guide that will obviously be used shortly there after. However, if a particular book continues to sell for multiples of guide for an extended period of time (Again, I'm not sure where to draw that line but over a year might be a good start ) then I agree that it is time to allow the guide to reflect the market; or at least do so to the best of its ability.

 

To put it in more direct terms, updating the values for ASM #300 when it reached it's peak a few years ago might not be the best decision if we didn't see that trend continue; where updating the values for pre-Robin Tecs that continue to sell well above guide might be a good idea due to that particular market trend being established over a greater period of time.

 

As far as the possibility of seeing the OSPG publish multiple editions per-year to better reflect the very current market trends, I'd be all for that. I just mentioned that if it would be a profitable endeavour, I imagine we would see what they've already done brought back again.

 

I'm not saying that it is the OSPG's responsibility to maintain stability in an unstable market, I was just pointing that out as a potentially positive factor that might be overlooked. Believe me, I don't think it is a good thing at all for dealers, fellow collectors, or anyone else to rip someone off by offering "over-guide" for books that are clearly worth much more than the offered sum.

 

Instances like that is where GPA can come in very handy. The positive aspects I tried to point out about the OSPG were not intended to knock some of the other "guides" we have to determine a more accurate FMV for our books.

 

And as far as the publisher's trick to catch copyright infringements, I'm honestly not sure if that is their intent but I do feel that on some of the more key books (and yes I'll throw Batman #4 into that mix), they should at least get the info right in regards to the most popular comic-villian of all time. In regards to the Action/Superman #1 point that I linked, that to me seems to be the result of a lack of research more so than a trick to catch copyright infringements. Of course I could be mistaken but it seems as though the info provided for the descriptions of both Action #1 and Superman #1 isn't questioned by many and has become universally adopted as factual by a great percentage of the comic collecting community.

[oakman29]

Overstreet is an indispensible guide,but I really like to read the market reports from Rick/Gator and Dan/Flying donut and everyone.You kind of feel like your in the know,because you converse on the boards with some of the biggest players in the comic book world,and your reading their reports in the guide.I gotta be careful,you don't want to give them big heads. (thumbs u

[Jeffro.]

..UNLESS he gets with the times and publishes online with Monthly or Bi-monthly updates.

 

They did that once.

 

Really?

 

Yes, from wikipedia

 

Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, Overstreet also produced a publication that would serve as a price update regarding newer comics releases from the present to selected titles dating from the Silver Age, including a price guide to current and valuable comics, as well as comic book, collector news, and interviews. These various incarnations of the publication (which were published quarterly to bi-monthly, and eventually monthly) included Overstreet's Comic Book Price Update, Overstreet Comic Book Monthly, and Overstreet's Fan, with this last incarnation showing a great deal of similarity to the successful comics news magazine Wizard: The Guide to Comics. Ultimately, Overstreet's Fan ceased publication in 1995. In July 2003, Gemstone published the first issue of Overstreet's Comic Price Review, which would run for nineteen issues.

 

 

 

 

[Jeffro.]

What's interesting is that plenty of collectors and dealers still use OS for pricing, or at least as a base for pricing.

 

Everyone can get up on their high horse and decry that OS is hopelessly outdated, but currently we don't have anything better. If OS were to suddenly vanish, what would fill that void? It can't be GPA as that only tracks realized prices of slabbed books.

 

Jeffro,

 

When I go to a con and see the major dealers....

 

They sell GPA and whip out OS when they buy....

 

I know Doesn't make it right.