IS THERE NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES?

[Guest]

To clarify:

 

The title: Is there no honor among thieves?

 

This is very simply the terminology that is used among a close knit group of folks. The title historically implies simply that even among thieves certain gentlemanly types of unspoken rules and conduct apply. Numerous collectors here look to cut deals all the time on and off eBay. While there are no written rules, honor among thieves would certainly apply.

[underthebigw]

I honestly see nothing wrong with what Jeremy has done. He had no knowledge of the arrangement and, frankly, setting up BIN's involves a certain degree of risk if you do not require pre-approval. Most of the variant collectors on this board have had the experience of hoping no one else snapped up a book after the seller changed the auction to a BIN. I know I did with the X-men 105 I picked up.

 

Glenn, you could have done so many things to make sure you got this. To wait 16 hrs and hope it was still there is a bit urealistic. And, besides, how many copies do you have? And didn't Jeremy give you your first copy through trade? Demonstrate a little graciousness. You got beat, fair and square and I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Most of us who already have this issue would probably have emailed Jeremy to let him know it was listed.

[buena_vista]

Glenn,

 

I'm glad you clarified that you weren't just calling me a thief -- but every variant collector is one! We're all a group of "tightly knit" folk. Maybe that's why you're always helping out your fellow collectors... Seriously, give me a break.

 

Bottom Line:

 

I never denied the fact that you made the negotiation with the seller before I ever laid eyes on the auction.

 

My point was simple -- I can see how both of us have a case -- I unknowingly won the auction because of your negotiation. I don't think I should be punished for doing so.

 

My solution --- let's come to an agreement that will make both of us happy.

Your solution -- no way.-- And why is that? You gave the anwser ---

 

I tend to think in black and white and not “fuzzy gray”.

 

'Nuff said....

[Rip]

Answer, a lot more than $25

 

[buena_vista]

And didn't Jeremy give you your first copy through trade? Demonstrate a little graciousness.

 

 

To be fair, I traded Glenn my only copy of Fury 133 in the one and only deal I ever made with him. This auction was for Fury 134.

 

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

how much does a sgt. fury 134 .30 cent variant go for anyways?

 

a lot more than $25 had the auction gone it's length and all of us bid heavy on it..I don't even know the condition but if it was an upgrade (for me or for Glenn, and Jeremy's one of his last 5?) it may have been in the $150 - $175 range realistically, and we would have been most likely the three driving it up on each other

[Darthdiesel]

Most of us who already have this issue would probably have emailed Jeremy to let him know it was listed.

 

 

ummm...yeah...after I won it! just kidding...

[supapimp]

so in J_C's words, the seller got fleeced by tramps and thieves?

[awe4one]

so in J_C's words, the seller got fleeced by tramps and thieves?

 

Exactly what I was thinking.....

 

So let me see if I get this straight.....

 

Gem....you saw the auction and contacted the seller....now knowing that she didn't realize what she had.....you lowballed her an offer for a BIN....she agreed.

 

Then buena found the auction while surfing EBay and hit the BIN before you.

 

Well all I can say is too damn bad. To contact buena and ask for the comics is pretty bold IMO. If the deal was so important then you should have either gotten her to end the auction early or been there waiting when she added the BIN.

 

You get what you sow in this instance.....

 

Jim

[BachelorOfComix]

Yep, in a nutshell they're fighting over who gets to rip off/take advantage of that woman. Shame! No sympathy from me.

[Darthdiesel]

this is a tough call as buyers we always like to get the items we want for the lowest possible price. I think Glenn did work out a price that made the seller happy. I think that the lady felt most comfortable on ebay so she would probably not have ended it for any amount of money; as it seems the requisite was that it occur thru ebay.

 

just take this out of the variant realm and apply it to a silver Age marvel of DC that forumites have goten steals on....same premise...

 

 

[BronzeBruce13]

I stay out of these type disagreements as a rule, but since you seem to be asking for opinions I would offer this Glenn.

 

You mentioned that you prefer to have the protection of eBay when making online deals and suggested the BIN as a solution to both seemingly protect yourself* and to secure the books before any competition could. You are clearly attempting to outmaneuver others that may be in pursuit of the same book. Your suggestion of the BIN carried risk, albeit slim. Nevertheless, this course of action exposed the book for a certain length of time and was dependent on precise timing for absolute success. Regardless of the circumstances that lead to the book being exposed for longer than you intended, and being noticed and bought by a competitor... you elected to take that risk as opposed to risking the loss of $25 by suggesting the ending of the auction (private off-ebay deal). If the book meant as much to you as it seems to, it might have been better to risk the $25 in a direct deal with the seller instead of exposing the book. Each decision carried risk.

 

*Also, at a sale price of $25, you would enjoy no real coverage from eBay other than threat of a feedback. $25 would be the deductible amount in the ebay standard $200 insurance coverage (really $175).

 

Bottom line: you gambled by exposing the book because you wanted security and you lost the gamble. Jeremy is under no obligation to return the deal to you IMHO. Lets keep in mind you were trying to obtain the book in this fashion because you knew other variant collectors would be pursuing it too. You had no problem ethically by limiting Jeremy's (or other variant collectors) chances of obtaining it... so why should any of them have sympathy that the maneuver failed?

 

My suggestion would be that all the known variant collectors attempt to make a unanimous pact not to attempt to end variant auctions... or agree its outright warfare, may the best man win at any cost. If even one is not willing, the rest must consider thinking offensively.

 

Lastly, if you had several copies of the variant in question and were making the covert moves to just "bolster" your collection, while Jeremy had none... its would be very hard for me as an outsider to sympathize with your position and agree that you were entitled to the book now. The fact that Jeremy was even willing to entertain a solution knowing what transpired says to me that he's very fair-minded. It would be very easy for him to be enraged that a competitor with several copies of said book, tried to limit his access from obtaining just one for himself.

 

Why not just hook Jeremy up with a book he does not have and you have multiples of... it may pay off someday.

[COI]

I didn't realize that book was worth that much, which makes this statement odd:

 

I tend to think in black and white and not “fuzzy gray”. I have multiple copies of tough to find books. Thee are a number of ethical issues that come up for grabs here. Plenty of folks, I’m guessing, will question mine. In any case I have my opinion on this as you might guess. I’m more sad and disappointed than mad or upset.

 

So it sounds like he acknowledges his unethical behaviour, but is sad and dissapointed at the behaviour of buena_vista? So basically, his severe lowball of this unknowledgable woman is fine with him, but buena_vista's action of popping the BIN, which is not morally questionable in any way, is what dissapoints him?

 

I guess it dosen't matter if the seller would be "sad and dissapointed" for being taken, as long as vista and gem are satisfied?

 

 

 

 

[Rickdogg]

VARIANT DRAMA!!!!!!

[COI]

just take this out of the variant realm and apply it to a silver Age marvel of DC that forumites have goten steals on....same premise...

 

I believe there is a certain line, and I guess it is up to the idividual as to where they want to draw it. The difference, I believe, is whether or not the seller has the resources to do the research or not. This 30 cent variant thing is tricky. If she was trying to figure out how to price these books, she would have likely looked up the books, seen what they sell for, and set the price accordingly, unaware of any distinction. Hell, I didn't really know anything about this variant fiasco until I came onto these boards, so how would a non-comic person find out about this? It's not fair, because it isn't something that this woman could have easily found out about, unlike regular silver age/bronze age books where research is cut and dry. Just because the seller was not aware, dosen't mean it isn't wrong. I could steal from a blind man's cup, and he may never know about it, but it dosen't make it ok.

 

 

[deathlok]

VARIANT DRAMA!!!!!!

 

Maybe this thread will get locked like certain other disputable threads...

[Darthdiesel]

just take this out of the variant realm and apply it to a silver Age marvel of DC that forumites have goten steals on....same premise...

 

I believe there is a certain line, and I guess it is up to the idividual as to where they want to draw it. The difference, I believe, is whether or not the seller has the resources to do the research or not. This 30 cent variant thing is tricky. If she was trying to figure out how to price these books, she would have likely looked up the books, seen what they sell for, and set the price accordingly, unaware of any distinction. Hell, I didn't really know anything about this variant fiasco until I came onto these boards, so how would a non-comic person find out about this? It's not fair, because it isn't something that this woman could have easily found out about, unlike regular silver age/bronze age books where research is cut and dry. Just because the seller was not aware, dosen't mean it isn't wrong. I could steal from a blind man's cup, and he may never know about it, but it dosen't make it ok.

 

 

I just pee in the cup usually

 

If this is crossing the line, then all 30 cent variant/35 cent vairant collectors are over it every time they win a "hidden" variant lot. It is still the sellers' responsibility to set the price on what they are selling. A Price that they are happy to walk away with here. Glenn suggested $25 and she posted it up for that price, meaning she would have been happy to part with that. she probably thought she was pulling a fast one on Glenn as she or her brother got that book off the shelf for $0.30 and now is capitalizing on this opportunity big-time. all's fair in deal hunting and variant bidding...

 

and if one does a search on the internet for marvel price variants - you'll get a few hits and one awesome site chockful of information. she stated in her email thsat she has more like it...I'll br off now to pillage and plunder this Marylander's variant collection and I'll throw her a $50 spot to give me her books and STFU

[COI]

Just to add to this point:

 

I just auctioned off a Joe figure on Ebay(ended today). Someone emailed me, trying to get me to end early and sell for $125, because he said that was the FMV, and that I'd be stupid not to take it and save myself the fees. When I declined, he sent me a very long winded email telling me that I didn't know anything, and that I lost a bidder, . Because I don't buy/sell Joes often, he thought he could pull the wool over my eyes. His technique was unethical, IMO, because he was trying to take advantage of the possiblilty that I might be a newbie and not know exactly what I had. It ended at $476. On the other hand, I had people offer me $300-$400 to end early, and I don't consider those unethical because they were not totally low-ball, and unreasonable, and because they were polite and understanding when I declined. There's a difference between trying to get a deal, and trying to literally steal from a less than informed individual. But that's just me, and we all have to set the standard for ourselves. I will not be so arrogant and judgemental as to say where the line should be drawn for everyone in general, but this instances crosses it for me. Just my opinion.

[COI]

and if one does a search on the internet for marvel price variants - you'll get a few hits and one awesome site chockful of information.

 

Ok, but again, how would she even know the term "marvel price variants". That's very specific collecting terminology that she shouldn't be expected to know.

 

I agree with you. I think it is the seller's responsibility to set their prices, but there are some rare instances(like with these variants) where it's impossible to do so without some pretty specific knowledge. If it was a case of laziness on the seller's part to find info that's readily available, that's one thing. But in this case, you have to admit it's a little unfair.

 

then all 30 cent variant/35 cent vairant collectors are over it every time they win a "hidden" variant lot.

 

Then you're all F'in scum.

 

 

[COI]

Let me clarify one more thing:

 

Although I'm harping on the "unfairness" of the situation for this woman, my ID wouldn't be "captains_of_industry" and I wouldn't be a businessman if I didn't understand that this kind of behaviour constitutes the fundamentals of capitalism. I was just playing devil's advocate, mostly. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that he has no problem being as cut-throat as is required to aquire what he wants, but complains about being "sad and dissapointed" when another collector essentially does the same thing. Perhaps he should look in the mirror?