Brave and Bold 34 Cover

[CollectingFool]

To compare across eras of collecting is folly. Why exactly must older art be more expensive than newer art? This entire field is "young" artists, compared to other art segments. It's all modern art, to be honest. So, to say this cover must be 500K since the Miller DD cover hit 100K really makes no sense to me.

 

 

First I'll say that I think talking about any comic book piece other than maybe the first Golden Age covers being $100K is absolutely absurd to me. I don't think ANY cover I've ever seen is worth over $25K. That's my mentality so when you start saying $100K Millers and possible $500K for this one, it's just gibberish to me. My mind can't comprehend it.

 

What I do believe is that as artwork, this is much nicer than the Miller. IMO historically it's more important than the Miller too. Forgetting about the numbers for a minute saying that as a piece of art this cover should be worth more than the Miller (any Miller really) makes sense to me, weird Lincoln Tunnel design and all.

 

So if in my head the Miller DD is $10K, I could see this being $15K or $20K. That's if you're actually valuing as art and all the other factors went out the window. We've already established that most comic OA prices have little to do with the artwork itself so I guess we'll just see what new heights of insanity we reach next.

[artdealer]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

[2020-migration]

 

So if in my head the Miller DD is $10K, I could see this being $15K or $20K. That's if you're actually valuing as art and all the other factors went out the window. We've already established that most comic OA prices have little to do with the artwork itself so I guess we'll just see what new heights of insanity we reach next.

 

By the relationship in the above post if 10k = 15k/20k (Dardevil: BB34)

 

150k to 200k is the estimate you believe - based on all known and "actual" components ?

 

Is that accurate

[heartened]

To compare across eras of collecting is folly. Why exactly must older art be more expensive than newer art? This entire field is "young" artists, compared to other art segments. It's all modern art, to be honest. So, to say this cover must be 500K since the Miller DD cover hit 100K really makes no sense to me.

 

 

First I'll say that I think talking about any comic book piece other than maybe the first Golden Age covers being $100K is absolutely absurd to me. I don't think ANY cover I've ever seen is worth over $25K. That's my mentality so when you start saying $100K Millers and possible $500K for this one, it's just gibberish to me. My mind can't comprehend it.

 

What I do believe is that as artwork, this is much nicer than the Miller. IMO historically it's more important than the Miller too. Forgetting about the numbers for a minute saying that as a piece of art this cover should be worth more than the Miller (any Miller really) makes sense to me, weird Lincoln Tunnel design and all.

 

So if in my head the Miller DD is $10K, I could see this being $15K or $20K. That's if you're actually valuing as art and all the other factors went out the window. We've already established that most comic OA prices have little to do with the artwork itself so I guess we'll just see what new heights of insanity we reach next.

 

Hey Ruben,

 

I agree with you there. All things considered, I too would value the BB 34 cover significantly more than the Miller DD cover. I had no interest whatsoever in that DD cover, as it was past his main Elektra run (to me, his best issues), but would certainly be interested in the BB 34 cover depending on price. But, not really for its artistic merit, more for its rightful place in comics history and my attachment to the Silver Age resulting from my collecting these books for so long.

 

And Mitch, people compare modern art to silver age art all the time. Every time you make a decision to spend big bucks on a piece of art, in fact, you're making a decision NOT to buy something else. And at the 100K mark, those decisions frequently involve silver age versus more modern art.

 

 

 

[Pirate]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

all but one, it's for sale with no price.

[2020-migration]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

all but one, it's for sale with no price.

 

He's soliciting offers. I see nothing wrong with that. Why are people in this hobby so snide ?

[jimjum12]

I wasn't comparing Kubert to Pacheco....just trying to give examples of how different tastes will ALWAYS drive an original art market. I love them BOTH.....at different times I am more in the mood for one than the other. For example, I think Frank Quitely is as good as anyone.....Same for Bissette/ Totleben ST work. To try and establish a heirarchy of value based on chronology or style is like saying everything after Rembrandt is pale inferiority. I happen to love Monet'....and Van Gogh, and Dali'......just as much as I love the old masters. It's kind of like one's children....we love each one, but differently. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. I still like Pacheco WAY better than Miller

[jimjum12]

.....as for the cover of BB 34, I'm astounded that it still exists, it's one of my favorite covers of all time, and this news reminds me of how I felt when I heard the cover to MIS 90 was on the market almost 20 years ago. Good luck with your sale, ArtDealer.....I sincerely hope someone I know ends up with it. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. I attended the Kubert School and saw Joe every day....a finer man you'll never meet.

[Pirate]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

all but one, it's for sale with no price.

 

He's soliciting offers. I see nothing wrong with that. Why are people in this hobby so snide ?

 

Snide? Generally when someone says they have something for sale, there is a price attached. I didn't read where it says soliciting offers or I wouldn't have asked.

[artdealer]

No, I'm not soliciting offers. The cover has a firm price.

However, I'm not listing the price for my own reasons. You want the price? Simply PM me if you are really serious.

 

And snide is Pirate's middle name.

 

all but one, it's for sale with no price.

 

He's soliciting offers. I see nothing wrong with that. Why are people in this hobby so snide ?

[artdealer]

Pirate, Not like you are going to buy the cover anyway. Why work yourself up?

 

 

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

all but one, it's for sale with no price.

 

He's soliciting offers. I see nothing wrong with that. Why are people in this hobby so snide ?

 

Snide? Generally when someone says they have something for sale, there is a price attached. I didn't read where it says soliciting offers or I wouldn't have asked.

[Bronty]

I agree its a great cover, but lets be honest here - its Hawkman... He is not a 1st tier character in the DC universe, and unless a die hard DC fan or a Kubert fan eyes this up, its not really going to appeal to the masses in the same way that say the Showcase #22 cover or the Flash 105 cover would.

 

 

you have got to evealuate each piece on it's own merits.Comparing to Showcase #22 cover or the Flash 105 is foolish as they have nothing to do with each other. When I bought my BB #36 cover in 1989, the BB 34 owner offered me his for 10k or so (maybe 15k). Seeing as I had just gotten the 36 (long passed to another collector for a record price at the time) I didn't need the 34 cover. Since then the owner has off/on tried to sell it, always for some astronomical price.

 

Fact: the BB 34 cover is one of the best of all silver dc covers

Fact: Joe Kubert's work in this time period is at it's epoch

 

now if you want to compare prices.. I say that the BB 34 cover is a better piece than a middling Miller DD cover, or a Dark Knight page duo, or a Tottleben MM cover, or just about any piece that I've seen anyone mention astronomical prices on this forum from the Bronze/Modern age. To me the 34 cover is worth 100 DD covers. Of course, that doesn't mean I think it's worth $10,000,000. It just means that the modern market is skewed by a small number of collectors with lots of jack to spend and to whom silver age means nothing.

 

I'm sure the price on the BB 34 cover is 300-500k in any case, which is also a very high price regardless of any other factors

 

do you have a jpg of the 36 rich? that must have looked wonderful

[comix4fun]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

all but one, it's for sale with no price.

 

He's soliciting offers. I see nothing wrong with that. Why are people in this hobby so snide ?

 

 

Which post is this responding to?

[CollectingFool]

By the relationship in the above post if 10k = 15k/20k (Dardevil: BB34)

150k to 200k is the estimate you believe - based on all known and "actual" components?

 

Uh, no. It may be IMO "twice as good" or better in quality but that has nothing to do with prices unless we're talking 1993 prices.

 

 

[Galactus]

I agree its a great cover, but lets be honest here - its Hawkman... He is not a 1st tier character in the DC universe, and unless a die hard DC fan or a Kubert fan eyes this up, its not really going to appeal to the masses in the same way that say the Showcase #22 cover or the Flash 105 cover would.

 

 

you have got to evealuate each piece on it's own merits.Comparing to Showcase #22 cover or the Flash 105 is foolish as they have nothing to do with each other. When I bought my BB #36 cover in 1989, the BB 34 owner offered me his for 10k or so (maybe 15k). Seeing as I had just gotten the 36 (long passed to another collector for a record price at the time) I didn't need the 34 cover. Since then the owner has off/on tried to sell it, always for some astronomical price.

 

Fact: the BB 34 cover is one of the best of all silver dc covers

Fact: Joe Kubert's work in this time period is at it's epoch

 

now if you want to compare prices.. I say that the BB 34 cover is a better piece than a middling Miller DD cover, or a Dark Knight page duo, or a Tottleben MM cover, or just about any piece that I've seen anyone mention astronomical prices on this forum from the Bronze/Modern age. To me the 34 cover is worth 100 DD covers. Of course, that doesn't mean I think it's worth $10,000,000. It just means that the modern market is skewed by a small number of collectors with lots of jack to spend and to whom silver age means nothing.

 

I'm sure the price on the BB 34 cover is 300-500k in any case, which is also a very high price regardless of any other factors

 

do you have a jpg of the 36 rich? that must have looked wonderful

 

I have just been told that the cover to #36 is also being made available right now. I am waiting to get a look at it, but i believe this may be a better image, if not as historicaly important.

[Pirate]

Pirate, Not like you are going to buy the cover anyway. Why work yourself up?

 

 

 

Not working anything up, was a simple question. Sorry it's tough to comprehend for you. Can't believe your feelings are still hurt from being told to follow rules.

 

"I'm bsd art dealer, I can do what I want"

 

[otherworldsj33]

Being a long time collector, first comics, then OA, like Ruben, it's hard for me to wrap my mind around some of these prices, both comics and art. That being said, imho, if the B &B 34 cover is priced at or around 85-90K, considering where the market is, I think both parties walk away with a fair deal. Though I personally would not purchase it for that price, Hawkman not being a character I care much for, and as Hari mentioned, art wise, this cover is mediocre at best. Of course, I'll probably never know the ask price, since it is not something I am interested in, I see no sense in wasting Mitch's time.

Still the cover is deserving of respect, being significant and historic, and as Mitch mentioned, a good number of key and semi key SA covers probably do not exist. It certainly would make a nice addition to any collection, and in most cases be The feature piece of art.

If I can make it to San Diego, I am going to make a point of taking a look at it.

[2020-migration]

Being a long time collector, first comics, then OA, like Ruben, it's hard for me to wrap my mind around some of these prices, both comics and art. That being said, imho, if the B &B 34 cover is priced at or around 85-90K, considering where the market is, I think both parties walk away with a fair deal. Though I personally would not purchase it for that price, Hawkman not being a character I care much for, and as Hari mentioned, art wise, this cover is mediocre at best. Of course, I'll probably never know the ask price, since it is not something I am interested in, I see no sense in wasting Mitch's time.

Still the cover is deserving of respect, being significant and historic, and as Mitch mentioned, a good number of key and semi key SA covers probably do not exist. It certainly would make a nice addition to any collection, and in most cases be The feature piece of art.

If I can make it to San Diego, I am going to make a point of taking a look at it.

\\

 

I could be wrong as I am not as knowledgable as others but I believe 85k-90k for the cover to BB 34 (while not a small amount of money) would be a bargain. I think Ruben's estimate of 150k-200k is more accurate. If I had the money I would buy it at that price

[tth2]

do you have a jpg of the 36 rich? that must have looked wonderful

 

I have just been told that the cover to #36 is also being made available right now. I am waiting to get a look at it, but i believe this may be a better image, if not as historicaly important.

B&B 36 is a great cover and hugely underrated, but it is neither as good nor as historically important as B&B 34.

[tth2]

and as Hari mentioned, art wise, this cover is mediocre at best.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but this comment about one of the best SA covers and one of Kubert's best work, if not best work, dumbfounds me.