Brave and Bold 34 Cover

[artdealer]

Isn't Daredevil a 2nd tier character?

MI

[comix4fun]

Isn't Daredevil a 2nd tier character?

MI

 

 

General rule...DD was a 2nd tier character unless it was Wood or Miller doing the artwork. Then he's as top shelf as it comes.

 

Hawkman is top of the top shelf with Kubert or Anderson doing the artwork.

 

Those synergies of Artist and Character that are timeless.

[MisterX]

This has been a very informative thread!

 

I must ask a few noob questions, because I know nothing about collecting OA:

 

1) I understand the popularity and importance of Kubert's Hawkman material. But when I think of Kubert, I think of Sgt. Rock. If an SA Kubert Hawkman cover is expected to sell for crazy money, what about an early SA Kubert Our Army at War cover, like #88? Or are there more than enough covers to satisfy demand and keep prices level?

 

2) Some grail covers mentioned in the thread include Action 1 and Tec 27. Are these still known to exist? And if they do, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to sell for over a million dollars, based on the recent sales of HG copies of each book?

 

 

 

 

[Claudio]

This has been a very informative thread!

 

I must ask a few noob questions, because I know nothing about collecting OA:

 

1) I understand the popularity and importance of Kubert's Hawkman material. But when I think of Kubert, I think of Sgt. Rock. If an SA Kubert Hawkman cover is expected to sell for crazy money, what about an early SA Kubert Our Army at War cover, like #88? Or are there more than enough covers to satisfy demand and keep prices level?

 

2) Some grail covers mentioned in the thread include Action 1 and Tec 27. Are these still known to exist? And if they do, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to sell for over a million dollars, based on the recent sales of HG copies of each book?

 

 

 

 

In response to your 2nd question, I think everyone here knows that the art would sell for crazy money. From what I read, Ruben just doesn't value it that high even though he knows it would sell for a much higher amount. For example, I know that this Hawkman cover is worth tens of thousands of dollars; however, it wouldn't be worth 200 to me. Sure, it it was offered to me for 1000 bucks, I would snatch it up but that is only because I know I could resell it. If someone put a condition on it that I (or my heirs, my friends, etc) could never sell it for a profit, I wouldn't buy it. Just because people value certain pieces low, that doesn't mean they/we think it would sell for that amount.

[comicartcom]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

Mitch

 

first of all, I have no idea why you feel you should go on the attack at me for posting what I have earlier in this thread. Considering I have always (to my knowledge) had a good relationship with you, counted you among friends and never in my life said anything negative about you.. it's hard to understand where your attitude is coming from.

 

secondly, if the art wasn't offered in 1989, it was offered to me in either 1990 or 1991 (probably 1990) as I had just purchased 1) the B&B 34 splash page which was delivered to me at SDCC and 2) I was in the process of buying the #36 cover which had been offered to me as a result of buying the 34 splash and which also brought Bob to my table resulting in his offering me the #34 cover. If the price wasn't 10k, it was 12 or 15k and the reasons were Bob was trying to resolve some personal issues. Bob subsequently offered the cover at least 2 other times after that - publicly - and I might have in my files archive a flyer he sent out to interested people, once at $35k because he was looking to expand his practice and needed some extra cash. I was still living in Cincinnati, so it had to be 1992 or 1993 (by which time Sotheby's and Christies auction houses had started auction of comic art resulting in steep increases in silver age DC & Marvel art). The piece was then removed from the market except on one-to-one discussions with other specific collectors and then the cover was on display at SDCC for either $75k or $100k 7-8 years ago.

 

Obviously, Bob's price was always "aggressive", or I'm sure he would have sold it several times during the time period, so to somehow try to imply or act as if the item was never offered for sale before 7 years ago is a total crock of

 

Maybe you're angry because you think i was trying to spoil something.. if so, you are greatly mistaken because clearly I hold this cover in very high regard as do most silver age DC collectors, of which you know I was always one as I bought things like Kirby Challs splashes and Flash covers from you many moons ago, and my post clearly glorifies the piece.

 

I'm also surprised you don't see the parody of my 300-500k estimate.

You would have to be blind or ignorant not to see I think that modern age art is vastly overpriced, overvalued, etc, but that I place a high intrinsic and historic value on high quality silver and golden age art (and vintage comic strip art of course) and my goofy estimate was parodying the $100k DD and $54k MM covers. I have since heard what the potential price for the BB 34 cover is and surprisingly, considering how aggressive Bob's price has been in the past, I think it may be in the range that it could really sell at SD. I hope you do sell it. More power to you

 

In the future Mitch, if you disagree with something I say, you're welcome to dispute it, but be a gentleman about it, not a

[artdealer]

'sigh'

[Pirate]

Let me clarify a few things for all you speculators out there.

 

1. This cover was NEVER offered to anyone in 1989, let alone for $10,000. This is right from the consignor's mouth.

 

2. The cover did show up at SD about 7 years ago, but was NEVER offered for $300,000. Once again, from the consignor's mouth.

 

3. The price is NOWHERE near $300-$500,000. That's from my mouth.

 

4. How does someone compare an important, first appearance cover, to a modern cover? That's stupid.

 

5. How can anyone compare a master draftsman to Carlos Pacheco, I'll never understand.

 

6. This cover hasn't been offered since the couple of people who saw it at SD 7 years ago, regardless of what that person says.

 

I've taken the Kubert off my site. Anyone going to SD can see it there.

 

I hope this clears up some questions you might have had.

 

MI

 

Mitch

 

first of all, I have no idea why you feel you should go on the attack at me for posting what I have earlier in this thread. Considering I have always (to my knowledge) had a good relationship with you, counted you among friends and never in my life said anything negative about you.. it's hard to understand where your attitude is coming from.

 

secondly, if the art wasn't offered in 1989, it was offered to me in either 1990 or 1991 (probably 1990) as I had just purchased 1) the B&B 34 splash page which was delivered to me at SDCC and 2) I was in the process of buying the #36 cover which had been offered to me as a result of buying the 34 splash and which also brought Bob to my table resulting in his offering me the #34 cover. If the price wasn't 10k, it was 12 or 15k and the reasons were Bob was trying to resolve some personal issues. Bob subsequently offered the cover at least 2 other times after that - publicly - and I might have in my files archive a flyer he sent out to interested people, once at $35k because he was looking to expand his practice and needed some extra cash. I was still living in Cincinnati, so it had to be 1992 or 1993 (by which time Sotheby's and Christies auction houses had started auction of comic art resulting in steep increases in silver age DC & Marvel art). The piece was then removed from the market except on one-to-one discussions with other specific collectors and then the cover was on display at SDCC for either $75k or $100k 7-8 years ago.

 

Obviously, Bob's price was always "aggressive", or I'm sure he would have sold it several times during the time period, so to somehow try to imply or act as if the item was never offered for sale before 7 years ago is a total crock of

 

Maybe you're angry because you think i was trying to spoil something.. if so, you are greatly mistaken because clearly I hold this cover in very high regard as do most silver age DC collectors, of which you know I was always one as I bought things like Kirby Challs splashes and Flash covers from you many moons ago, and my post clearly glorifies the piece.

 

I'm also surprised you don't see the parody of my 300-500k estimate.

You would have to be blind or ignorant not to see I think that modern age art is vastly overpriced, overvalued, etc, but that I place a high intrinsic and historic value on high quality silver and golden age art (and vintage comic strip art of course) and my goofy estimate was parodying the $100k DD and $54k MM covers. I have since heard what the potential price for the BB 34 cover is and surprisingly, considering how aggressive Bob's price has been in the past, I think it may be in the range that it could really sell at SD. I hope you do sell it. More power to you

 

In the future Mitch, if you disagree with something I say, you're welcome to dispute it, but be a gentleman about it, not a

 

[artdealer]

The only thing Pie-rate, is that you're still a (rhymes with Mouchebag).

[Crowzilla]

With all the talk around artistic merit, nostalgia, and historical significance attached to the B&B 34 cover, I was just wondering how folks would compare it against a Marvel cover from roughly the same time, say the Daredevil #1 cover?

 

Brave and Bold #34 came out before Fantastic Four #1, so how is that comparison roughly the same time?

[Bronty]

first appearances of 2nd tier characters

[Peepers-migration]

Ooooof, ArtDealer got pwned.

 

On a related note, why do dealers advertise pieces for sale but refuse to list the price? Why must you PM them, or make the dreaded "inquiry"? Seems really shady.

[fc]

Ooooof, ArtDealer got pwned.

 

On a related note, why do dealers advertise pieces for sale but refuse to list the price? Why must you PM them, or make the dreaded "inquiry"? Seems really shady.

 

i do not think it is shady... it is more about control.

i also do not think negatively about the route at all. just my opinion.

[Pirate]

The only thing Pie-rate, is that you're still a (rhymes with Mouchebag).

 

And apparently you don't tell the whole truth.

[artdealer]

That's your opinion (usually wrong).

[Pirate]

That's your opinion (usually wrong).

 

so comicart's not telling the truth? One of you isn't and i'm guessing it's you.

[Bronty]

well not necessarily. mitch said certain things based on it being straight from the consignor's mouth. rich said certain things based on his personal experience. All it would take is forgetfulness either accidentally or on purpose on the consignor's part for neither rich nor mitch to be lying.

[artdealer]

Exactly.

Thank you.

[artdealer]

Ooooof, ArtDealer got pwned.

 

On a related note, why do dealers advertise pieces for sale but refuse to list the price? Why must you PM them, or make the dreaded "inquiry"? Seems really shady.

 

 

Yes, ArtDealer got "pwned". You crazy kids and your slang.

 

I didn't advertise the art for sale. It was a press release stating that the art had surfaced and was going to be available in San Diego. Info was available if you contacted me via email or phone. I wasn't making anyone inquire about anything if they didn't want to.

 

The art was on my website for about 20 hours and then I took it down. Too many insufficiently_thoughtful_persons actually trying to order the art directly from my website since there was no price.

 

MI

[Pirate]

well not necessarily. mitch said certain things based on it being straight from the consignor's mouth. rich said certain things based on his personal experience. All it would take is forgetfulness either accidentally or on purpose on the consignor's part for neither rich nor mitch to be lying.

 

Consignor must have a terrible memory

[artdealer]

It amazing that you can have 19167 posts and still have nothing to say.