Edgar Church heirs

[comicdonna]

The Church books would have been thrown out.

 

Chuck got a great deal.

 

We enjoy the books.

 

The Church family, got the $ Chuck borrowed to get the books.

 

If I remember correctly, Chuck paid back the $ with Church books.

 

Everyone was happy at the time.

 

My grandmother gave away all of my fathers 1940's comic books. Found out when he took me to her house when I was 12 so that we could pick them up when I told my dad the were worth big bucks. I was bummed out the whole way home. Maybe I should sue my family because she did this.

 

Sounds like a happy ending for all involved with the Church collection.

 

Sorry about your dads books, Steve.

[Moondog]

Your discussion is pointless. Even if they had not sold to Chuck, they would have liquidated the collection long ago by now. They would not have sit on it for 30+ years waiting for CGC to happen and HG multiples to explode as they have. These books would have been liquidated well prior the '90's and STILL they would have to face the :doh: why did I sell too early. All this 20 / 20 hindsight doesn't change no matter what the time frame you're using.

 

Absolutely correct, Scrooge. If they thought $2,000 (or so) was good, they would have REALLY thought $20,000 was fantastic...

[Moondog]

The Church books would have been thrown out.

 

Chuck got a great deal.

 

We enjoy the books.

 

The Church family, got the $ Chuck borrowed to get the books.

 

If I remember correctly, Chuck paid back the $ with Church books.

 

Everyone was happy at the time.

 

My grandmother gave away all of my fathers 1940's comic books. Found out when he took me to her house when I was 12 so that we could pick them up when I told my dad the were worth big bucks. I was bummed out the whole way home. Maybe I should sue my family because she did this.

 

 

As ever, the voice of reason, makes the confusing understandable. (thumbs u

 

[ghoulaid]

The Church books would have been thrown out.

 

Chuck got a great deal.

 

We enjoy the books.

 

The Church family, got the $ Chuck borrowed to get the books.

 

If I remember correctly, Chuck paid back the $ with Church books.

 

Everyone was happy at the time.

 

 

 

 

That is correct. Currently I work only a short distance from Edgars old house. Also, the rumor of 10 cents a book is just that ... a rumor.

[Bunky Brian]

What's cool about it? It's tantamount to trying to track down ancestors of the native american tribesmen that sold Manhattan to see if they still have any of the glass beads or trinkets. If I was a Church heir, the last thing I would ever want to do is talk about f-ing comic books.

[Bomber-Bob]

To be honest, I would think that Chuck probably has more regrets and nightmares about the way he disposed of this collection. While it probably seemed like a lot of money to a young Chuck at the time, he really didn't capitalize on it. Minimally, he should have kept more of the books in his personal collection. The real winners in all this are the ones that kept the books instead of flipping.

Chuck has stated himself that the Mile High II collection was more beneficial to him monetarily. Without Mile High II Chuck probably wouldn't be in the business

today.

 

[Bronty]

Why would the heirs want to talk to anyone about it? Even though everything I have read shows the transaction was arms-length and they got what they asked for, the heirs have to be sick to their respective stomachs about selling millions of dollars of comics for a dime a piece.

 

Why wouldn't the heirs want to talk about it? We don't even know if they are aware of todays value of the collection. Not everyone is so centered on the value of things and the all mighty buck.

 

There is no way that you could be this vacuous. Why wouldn't the heirs want to talk about it? Because whomever sold those books screwed the pooch. Assuming arguendo that the heirs would have gotten the proceeds of the sale of the books at FMV over the past 30 years, it was an epic pooch screwing. No one wants to do interviews about screwing the pooch. No one wants to tell you how screwing the pooch feels. It sucks.

 

If you think that some heir of Edgar Church is going to give you an interview saying that he or she "is just glad that all these books made it into the hands of loving collectors" then you need to wake up. You love comics. Chances are those people don't. And the amount of money that they could have gotten to pursue the things that they love probably keeps them up at night from time to time.

 

Its not a pooch screwing if the transaction was arms-length and the heirs got what they asked for. Sure the collection today is worth millions of dollars, but realistically what was the FMV of the collection back then. Would another dealer in the Denver area have even been willing to offer substantially more, who knows. It is probably likely that if Chuck didn't buy the collection then the collection would have hit the garbage can. Obviously the collection was worth a lot more than the supposed couple of thousand dollars that Chuck paid, but not an overwhelming amount more.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Why be bitter today about a transaction that you did 30 years ago? Sure I understand the heirs might have some second thoughts, but to be bitter about it over 30 years later seems pointless to me.

 

different people will react in different ways but I can certainly understand not wanting to be interviewed about the biggest financial mistake of one's life. Yeah they really didn't have the understanding to make full benefit from it. But you couldn't blame them for being bitter about it, from time to time, if they are the type to look back.

[BOOT]

What's cool about it? It's tantamount to trying to track down ancestors of the native american tribesmen that sold Manhattan to see if they still have any of the glass beads or trinkets. If I was a Church heir, the last thing I would ever want to do is talk about f-ing comic books.

 

You know how to turn a phrase. .

[PokerKid]

To be honest, I would think that Chuck probably has more regrets and nightmares about the way he disposed of this collection. While it probably seemed like a lot of money to a young Chuck at the time, he really didn't capitalize on it. Minimally, he should have kept more of the books in his personal collection. The real winners in all this are the ones that kept the books instead of flipping.

Chuck has stated himself that the Mile High II collection was more beneficial to him monetarily. Without Mile High II Chuck probably wouldn't be in the business

today.

 

But it could be a lot like Sun Records signing away Elvis. If they hadn't done it, they would have gone under. By selling his contract, they were able to become a major player in the music industry for decades.

 

It's hard to say how long he could have held off on selling them and how much better or worse off he might be. He seemed to to all right in the long run.

[esquirecomics]

My grandmother gave away all of my fathers 1940's comic books. Found out when he took me to her house when I was 12 so that we could pick them up when I told my dad the were worth big bucks. I was bummed out the whole way home. Maybe I should sue my family because she did this.

 

 

I'll represent you as long as you pay me in comic books.

[topofthetotem]

I thought out of spite they ratted Chuck out to the IRS.

[benz]

My grandmother gave away all of my fathers 1940's comic books. Found out when he took me to her house when I was 12 so that we could pick them up when I told my dad the were worth big bucks. I was bummed out the whole way home. Maybe I should sue my family because she did this.

 

 

I'll represent you as long as you pay me in comic books.

 

Steve, time to unload those Spawn #1s

[seanfingh]

I think people's true character comes out in situations like this. The jury is still out on the Church heirs.

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but from this last part, it seems to me that you are suggesting that the Church heirs lack character if they don't contribute to whatever this project is. That attitude, and the attitude displayed by 1962, combined with Scrooge's comment that they never would have gotten what they were worth anyway are what have me so riled up. It is reminiscent of Bob Knight's comment about "laying back and enjoying it" lo those many decades ago.

 

My point is that the Church heirs, regardless of what they would have or might have gotten out of those books, likely feel as though they made a great mistake. No one wants to reminisce about great mistakes. All I'm saying is maybe think about how you would react if you sold the family farm for 10k and it turned out to have invaluable unobtainium deposits underneath. You probably wouldn't want to go on 60 minutes and reminisce about it.

 

 

[aggr1103]

I don't know...in reading Chuck's account of it they really seemed cold and detatched showing absolutely zero interest in the books as history, letting him in for very brief periods. I get the sense that paranoia was setting in for Chuck just being around them. Honestly I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for those specific individuals involved. Any other relations that might have later had regret upon hearing what was done is a different story but they seem non-interested as well if they don't wish to contribute to the book.

 

Plenty of old timers in the hobby have taken a different attitude. Lamont Larson didn't seem bitter after hearing about his collection. He even shared anecdotes about it and seemed pleased yet surprised that a lot of attention was being placed upon him. He no longer owned those books and gained no monetary benefit from them. The family of Malcolm Wheeler Nicholson also cared enough to relate stories about their relative in what might be the ultimate in "screw the pooch" stories and have said they aren't interested in legally pursuing any claim - just making people aware of the Major's contribution.

 

I think people's true character comes out in situations like this. The jury is still out on the Church heirs.

 

Very well said. I really didn't start this thread to get into how the Church heirs should feel - I was more interested in finding out if anyone in the family even knew of the collections significance.

 

I have a close friend who's grandparents home was lost years ago to foreclosure due to one family member's and penchant for heroin and meth. The home has since been turned into a bed and breakfast and my friend and his wife were actually brought in by the current owners to learn more about the history of the house. They were very gracious - and pictures of my friends family, including his grandparents, are found throughout the home now.

 

Point in saying all that is that the significance of my friends old homeplace was seen by its current owners and they wanted the family of the prior owners to be a part of it. My friend could've been bitter and upset but took the high road. I was hoping to hear something like this about Church's heirs, because Chuck's accounts make them seem cold and almost as if they did not care for him much.

[PokerKid]

I think people's true character comes out in situations like this. The jury is still out on the Church heirs.

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but from this last part, it seems to me that you are suggesting that the Church heirs lack character if they don't contribute to whatever this project is. That attitude, and the attitude displayed by 1962, combined with Scrooge's comment that they never would have gotten what they were worth anyway are what have me so riled up. It is reminiscent of Bob Knight's comment about "laying back and enjoying it" lo those many decades ago.

 

My point is that the Church heirs, regardless of what they would have or might have gotten out of those books, likely feel as though they made a great mistake. No one wants to reminisce about great mistakes. All I'm saying is maybe think about how you would react if you sold the family farm for 10k and it turned out to have invaluable unobtainium deposits underneath. You probably wouldn't want to go on 60 minutes and reminisce about it.

 

 

I get your point, but seriously comparing rape to a family member not getting enough money when cleaning out a house?

[seanfingh]

 

I get your point, but seriously comparing rape to a family member not getting enough money when cleaning out a house?

 

I didn't make that comparison. The comparison I made is among the attitudes. It seems to be the same attitude - since the Church heirs weren't going to get any money anyway, they might as well be interviewed about the collection and they damn well better put on a happy face while they do it!

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why would the heirs want to talk to anyone about it? Even though everything I have read shows the transaction was arms-length and they got what they asked for, the heirs have to be sick to their respective stomachs about selling millions of dollars of comics for a dime a piece.

 

They weren't worth millions of dollars when they sold them....

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why wouldn't the heirs want to talk about it? We don't even know if they are aware of todays value of the collection. Not everyone is so centered on the value of things and the all mighty buck.

 

 

C'mon, let's get real here. Unless the heirs are still living in a bomb shelter all these years, are you so naive enough to REALLY think that they still have absolutely ZERO clues about a collection named after one of the family ?

 

Yes.

 

The vast, vast, vast majority of people...including every single person I'm related to....don't care about comic books, and are surprised to find out they're still published.

 

I seriously doubt anyone in that family not directly involved with the sale has any idea about it.

 

What means a great deal to those in the community is utterly meaningless to those who are not.

 

Without looking it up, can you tell me who the most famous coin collector was/is, and why....?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Your discussion is pointless. Even if they had not sold to Chuck, they would have liquidated the collection long ago by now. They would not have sit on it for 30+ years waiting for CGC to happen and HG multiples to explode as they have. These books would have been liquidated well prior the '90's and STILL they would have to face the :doh: why did I sell too early. All this 20 / 20 hindsight doesn't change no matter what the time frame you're using.

 

 

I never cease to be amazed at the Monday morning quarterbacking that goes along with the discovery and disposal of the Church collection.

 

Nobody knew what would happen. If they did, they would have bet on the horses, become millionaires, and if they weren't too careful about that, been burned as witches.

 

(thumbs u

 

But seriously, nobody knew. Nobody. Not even Chuck. People laugh at him for selling the Action #1 for $25,000 in 1982....but it was $25,000 in nineteen eighty freakin' two for a freakin' comc book. You could have bought NICE HOUSES in Saint Louis...or a closet in Manhattan...for that much money in 1982.

 

It smashed the previous record by thousands of dolllars...and allowed Chuck to do what made Chuck happiest: run his comic book stores, collect pottery, and smoke pot.

 

Should we all not sell anything ever, because it might be worth much, much more later on....?

 

[Pirate]

What's cool about it? It's tantamount to trying to track down ancestors of the native american tribesmen that sold Manhattan to see if they still have any of the glass beads or trinkets. If I was a Church heir, the last thing I would ever want to do is talk about f-ing comic books.