Is the San diego Comic con leaning even farther away from being a Comic con?

[ChasingKingKirby]

I hear another good convention for mostly comic books is the "Baltimore Con". Anybody have any feedback?

 

I went last year. Seemed pretty awesome to me...

[Bronty]

Comic-Con cost me $1050. $800 for the hotel, $100 for the 4-day pass, and $150 for meals.

 

As for the the quality and quantity of comics, it sure seemed like there were a ton of great funny books to me.

 

You're the exception though Jeff. You are within driving distance and went solo. Anybody needing to fly (especially from outside the US) and/or bring someone will be into the trip for 2-4x that.

 

If the average person spends 2k on the trip, takes a couple days off work, and has to either bring the wife or use up "points" with her to make it happen ... well its just not worth for it for the collector either.

 

I went once and was totally dissatisfied with the experience relative to what it cost me. I won't be back.

 

To me the surprise, given the expense for the collector and the expense for the dealer, is not that a lot of comic people have stopped dealing and/or attending San Diego, but rather that any comic people outside of the city limits go at all! That's the benefit of decades of momentum I guess.

[comicartcom]

It's a vicious cycle that will eventually be broken one way or another.

 

The expenses are likely what is killing the show for dealers. You're looking at about $3-4000+ in travel expenses alone for a person. Lou and I are into the trip for $4500 and that was being relatively moderate on meals and travel (like taxis) where at other cons we wouldn't pull any punches and still come out cheaper.

 

That's not including table costs or any purchases.

 

Either all the dealers will leave and just make their own cheaper show or Comic Con will have to do something to stem the tide.

 

At this point there is no other resolution that I can see.

 

 

$4500 to attend a once-comic book convention in San Diego??? I'd rather go to Rome for two weeks . . .

 

No doubt. Hell, I spent three weeks in Europe on two different occasions and each trip ran less than $3k. Not to mention the fact that they beat the pants off of my two trips to the San Diego Con....which, while an interesting spectacle, didn't impress me much comics-wise.

 

... and here's the deal folks, to really get to the root of the situation.

 

The people at the top of the SDCC hierarchy - Faye Desmond, John Rogers, Beth Holly etc - are not original SDCC leaders. Faye and John were lowly peons for years working their way up as other people left or died and their interests were as sf geeks, not comic fans. Now they run the show and the interests of the show have leaned towards their interests. Not being big comics fans, and not being part of the show staff until the 1980s means they don't have a personal connection to those of us who were there before them.

 

Then comes the money. The SDCC was a 20-30k attendence show until it moved to the current facility, where it grew pretty fast because at the same time, the Hollywood crew started coming and Lucy Liu brings in more people than my art booth did. SDCC didn't grow into a 250,000 sqft convention with comic dealers, and therin lay the rub.

 

Here's what I would like to know: SDCC is a "non-profit" entity. What do they do with all that money? I don't believe they are a philanthropic entity, so you have to ask.. what do the show's leaders pay themselves? Are they like these corporate CEOs who pay themselves huge salaries and bonuses to deplete the profits (which have to be enormous). No other comic book convention is a non-profit. Come to think of it, aside from political or religious conventions, I'm not aware of any not-for-profit convention company anywhere in the world.

 

San Diego itself is also a predator towards the attendees. The city is interested in the tax dollars on the 200million or so spent. The hotels and restaurants raise the prices all over the city (less so the restaurants than the hotels)

 

Some of you may remember that before the convention center expansion, that there was a USO building at the South end of the facility AND a giant outdoor parking area that held 2000 cars. Well you'l like this: during the expansion, they needed to use that real estate. The parking contract with Ace parking was a point of contention. The city wanted Ace to pay for an underground lot extension seeing as they were taking away 2000 spaces. The city doesn't get much from the parking under the contract with Ace, so when Ace decided not to contribute, the city decided not to replace the parking spaces, reducing the available parking!! (ignorance on both the city's and Ace's parts).

 

Then they built the baseball stadium across the street adding to the congestion.

 

at this point in time, attendees and exhibitors are literally r a p e d by the city, the businesses and the convention itself. A triple terror. It's what happens when any entity becomes a corporate giant of some sort and the customers - of all kinds - just become piggy banks to be raided so the fat cats can get yet fatter again..

 

In 5 years, I can't see any comic book dealers being a part of the show any longer to speak of aside from an isolated island. DC and Marvel do not count to me.. they aren't comic book companies anymore - they are entertainment companies. They aren't there for collectors, but for gawkers... and so it goes

 

Keep in mind, SDCC wanted to turn Wondercon into a mini SDCC. It did not work because there is a different demographic, the show is smaller, and most attendees don't like Moscone Center and oif course, San Diego is a temperate dream that everyone loves. San Fran is not as much.. and it's further from Hollywood.

 

Life goes on SDCC willtoo, but they really need to shorten it to SDC, or it's just false advertising

[comicartcom]

Comic-Con cost me $1050. $800 for the hotel, $100 for the 4-day pass, and $150 for meals.

 

As for the the quality and quantity of comics, it sure seemed like there were a ton of great funny books to me.

 

okay, but youneed to give a full picture

 

at $800, and no parking costs noted, it means you split a room as it's the only way you could be close to the convention

and if your meals were $150, you didn't enjoy the comfort of any classy joints, didn't have 3 meals a day and may not have even set foot in a restaurant doing all your food shopping at the Ralphs nearby. also. how many days were you there..

 

plus, you were just attending. any dealer has to have 6 nights hotel (I used to stay an extra day or two after the show making my stay as long as 8 nights). must be parking a vehicle, employees etc.

[dupont2005]

I read an article the other day saying that Hollywood swarmed Comicon because of their ability to predict a hit. They say before the hype a handful of comic and sci-fi related movies were previewed at Comicon and the fans were accurate in deciding which ones were hits and which ones were misses. So then Hollywood swarmed the place with every type of movie and TV show no matter how unrelated, and the masses came. Since then Comicon has no longer been accurate in the market feedback. I think that may lead to Hollywood abandoning Comicon eventually, and then nothing will be left but us nerds and our funnybooks

[nearmint]

Some good points, but in fairness, SDCC still has more comics than 90% of conventions nationwide, so why shorten the name to SDC?

 

Also, building the stadium across the street didn't add to the congestion. There aren't home games during SDCC, and the parking lot is an option for SDCC attendees.

 

Finally, I don't feel "raped by the city". My hotel room was $165 a night, a mere 10% increase over the same room a few weeks prior.

 

It is possible that comic dealers will be moved elsewhere in the coming years. SDCC has already expanded well beyond the convention center's walls. Many events this year took place at the Hilton and the Marriot.

[PokerKid]

Comic-Con cost me $1050. $800 for the hotel, $100 for the 4-day pass, and $150 for meals.

 

As for the the quality and quantity of comics, it sure seemed like there were a ton of great funny books to me.

 

You're the exception though Jeff. You are within driving distance and went solo. Anybody needing to fly (especially from outside the US) and/or bring someone will be into the trip for 2-4x that.

 

If the average person spends 2k on the trip, takes a couple days off work, and has to either bring the wife or use up "points" with her to make it happen ... well its just not worth for it for the collector either.

 

I went once and was totally dissatisfied with the experience relative to what it cost me. I won't be back.

 

To me the surprise, given the expense for the collector and the expense for the dealer, is not that a lot of comic people have stopped dealing and/or attending San Diego, but rather that any comic people outside of the city limits go at all! That's the benefit of decades of momentum I guess.

 

I went and felt I got off fairly reasonable price wise (no flight). Hotel was just under $100 a night at Handlery on hotel circle with $5 trolley rides each day. Food was pretty reasonable.

 

I was disappointed in the selection of old comics, but even then I picked up two of the eight books I needed for my collection. I would have loved to have seen a good deal more, but it is what it is. If this was the only reason to come to the show I would be disappointed.

 

My wife goes with me and because of SDCC, she has become a big fan of the newer books and manga. I love meeting all the small press artists and seeing their books. For the third straight year, I have commissioned a piece with an artist whose work I like to be added to my classroom. In addition, it seems everyone wants to do a book. Cheap Trick lead singer Robin Zander signing his new book (and apparently the band performed later) and even former wrestler Jerry Lawler is drawing for comics now.

 

I love finding stuff I would not have known about had I not gone to the show.

 

Artists row is awesome. Tons of great artists with the potential for commission as well as some great pages. The dealers pages and access to the art is incredible. I still find it hard to believe in plastic boxes sitting on a table, I will flip through random pages of original art and find Alex Ross original cover art, Kirby interiors and CC Beck sketches in the same box. (I didn't have the $19,000 on me, but still cool to allow more than 100,000 people access to some great works.)

 

The panels - I went to only two this year - have to be the best anywhere. Considering people will wait overnight to see some of them shows the immense value they can have to people. My wife attends several and always comes back with great stories (Nathan Fillion in disguise asking Joss Whedon who his favorite actor to work with is, The Jeffsters rocking out with Chuck, etc.).

 

As much as I was being drawn in by the apparent lack of comics, I have come to realize it is a lack of old comics. There is a great deal of comics there, just most of it is newer or catering to other aspects of the hobby. If not for my wife enjoying so many of the other aspects, I might have missed out on a lot of great stuff, but now that she has, I do have a new perspective on the convention.

[nearmint]

Comic-Con cost me $1050. $800 for the hotel, $100 for the 4-day pass, and $150 for meals.

 

As for the the quality and quantity of comics, it sure seemed like there were a ton of great funny books to me.

 

okay, but youneed to give a full picture

 

at $800, and no parking costs noted, it means you split a room as it's the only way you could be close to the convention

and if your meals were $150, you didn't enjoy the comfort of any classy joints, didn't have 3 meals a day and may not have even set foot in a restaurant doing all your food shopping at the Ralphs nearby. also. how many days were you there..

 

plus, you were just attending. any dealer has to have 6 nights hotel (I used to stay an extra day or two after the show making my stay as long as 8 nights). must be parking a vehicle, employees etc.

 

I was at the Best Western Bayside, one of the SDCC hotels, and just under a mile from the convention center. It was $165 a night, plus $10 parking each day, plus taxes to bring it to $200 a day. I didn't split the cost. I was solo. And I've already made my reservation for next year.

 

As for meals, I was there 5 days, and certainly had 3 meals a day, but mostly fast food at Horton Plaza. Breakfast was free at the hotel.

[everlongcomics]

I'd like to think that one of these days I'll get to go to one of these big Comic Cons, but apart from all the glam of toy shows & movie hype I'd be real miffed if there wasn't alot of decent comic book stalls that my small wallet could afford to shop at. Its real nice to see the big money stalls, but a return to what I'm told it was would be nice. maybe underground comic cons will start to pop up

[Senormac]

To put it into the words of Chancey Gardner.....

 

The comic book is like the seed, which was planted into the young minds of children a generation ago, and with time (and money), just look what a great and towering tree it has become, with many, many branches and many different colored leaves and flowers touching all manner of imagination in people. SDCC is the mature result of "OUR" comic book hobby in full bloom and should be enjoyed for what it is.

[PokerKid]

I'd like to think that one of these days I'll get to go to one of these big Comic Cons, but apart from all the glam of toy shows & movie hype I'd be real miffed if there wasn't alot of decent comic book stalls that my small wallet could afford to shop at. Its real nice to see the big money stalls, but a return to what I'm told it was would be nice. maybe underground comic cons will start to pop up

 

Well, my dad went home with a few hundred books - all but two of them costing less than $10. There was a nice selection of $2-$10 books at many dealers. Regardless of wallet size, I think there was a pretty good representation there. Would have liked to have had even more, but he spent two days pawing through boxes for World's Finest, Flash, Green Lantern, Adventure and Blackhawk and left feeling like he the trip was a good one for him.

[NewWorldOrder]

I know the show has been getting away from its roots of being a comicbook show for a while now but for those who went to this years show is the trend continuing at an even more accelerated pace?

 

Not really. Besides Al Stoltz (Basement Comics) unfortunately not setting up this year I really didn't see any difference from last year.

 

Look if you came with 50k to buy really vintage comics then you should be leaving the con with $0 in your pocket. This show still has the best quality and quantity for amazing material anywhere in the comic con marketplace besides the NYC con.

 

NYC (Javitts) and SDCC are still the money makers for any dealers that actually has quality material and realistic prices.

 

This show for HighGradeComics was great. We sold a lot of really good books.

 

Much better than last year. (thumbs u

 

Personally as a collector I can always do without comic book dealers that can't make big shows anymore because .50 and $1.00 books just don't do it for me, sorry.

 

Even if SDCC wasn't a "Hollywood" phenom it is now I don't think there would be enough comic book dealers that could fill half the con space anyway.

 

The couple of local San Diego comic book store owners that I talked to that don't set-up anymore really shouldn't set-up to begin with. They just don't have the inventory anymore for it to make sense for the set-up in SD or for that matter any other major con.

 

 

 

 

[DarkKnightReturns]

I know the show has been getting away from its roots of being a comicbook show for a while now but for those who went to this years show is the trend continuing at an even more accelerated pace?

Look if you came with 50k to buy really vintage comics then you should be leaving the con with $0 in your pocket.

 

 

 

 

[nearmint]

I figured you guys had a good show. Bob hugged me yesterday.

[NewWorldOrder]

I figured you guys had a good show. Bob hugged me yesterday.

 

yea it was a great show.

[nearmint]

I figured you guys had a good show. Bob hugged me yesterday.

 

yea it was a great show.

 

And a great hug.

[NewWorldOrder]

I know the show has been getting away from its roots of being a comicbook show for a while now but for those who went to this years show is the trend continuing at an even more accelerated pace?

Look if you came with 50k to buy really vintage comics then you should be leaving the con with $0 in your pocket.

 

 

 

 

I said 50K not $50.00.

[DarkKnightReturns]

I know the show has been getting away from its roots of being a comicbook show for a while now but for those who went to this years show is the trend continuing at an even more accelerated pace?

Look if you came with 50k to buy really vintage comics then you should be leaving the con with $0 in your pocket.

 

 

 

 

I said 50K not $50.00.

Exactly. Perhaps Action1Kid comes to shows with 50k but your average collector, or Bobs average customer you would think would have a lot less.

 

What does the average collector bring to a show like San Diego ?

[NewWorldOrder]

I know the show has been getting away from its roots of being a comicbook show for a while now but for those who went to this years show is the trend continuing at an even more accelerated pace?

Look if you came with 50k to buy really vintage comics then you should be leaving the con with $0 in your pocket.

 

 

 

 

I said 50K not $50.00.

Exactly. Perhaps Action1Kid comes to shows with 50k but your average collector, or Bobs average customer you would think would have a lot less.

 

What does the average collector bring to a show like San Diego ?

 

I am not seeing your point dude.

 

If you have money to spend then you have more than enough dealers at SDCC to find anything and everything your hearts desires.

 

So what are you laughing about?

[DarkKnightReturns]

I know the show has been getting away from its roots of being a comicbook show for a while now but for those who went to this years show is the trend continuing at an even more accelerated pace?

Look if you came with 50k to buy really vintage comics then you should be leaving the con with $0 in your pocket.

 

 

 

 

I said 50K not $50.00.

Exactly. Perhaps Action1Kid comes to shows with 50k but your average collector, or Bobs average customer you would think would have a lot less.

 

What does the average collector bring to a show like San Diego ?

 

I am not seeing your point dude.

 

If you have money to spend then you have more than enough dealers at SDCC to find anything and everything your hearts desires.

 

So what are you laughing about?

I was thinking from an average collector pov. I doubt the average collectors collection is worth 50k. Just made me chuckle is all. I doubt many people had 50k on hand.

 

I do agree though that if I had 50k to spend I'm sure it wouldn't be hard on GA.

Seeing pics of Gators booth and Metros that 50 would be gone fast.