Any books that discusses the history of the comic book market or 90s crash?

[fantastic_four]

It's not only this, but also the fact that the world has changed. When I was a kid, sports cards and comic books captured my imagination. I have no doubt that if I were a kid today, I'd forsake them for video games and other digital entertainment.

 

When I was a kid in the 1980s, I did both video games and comics. I'm not sure why I wouldn't do the same today...I'm not aware of newly-available digital entertainment now that wasn't available in the 1980s. The quality is better now, but I didn't care, I played video games maybe 4 hours a day and read comics a few times per month.

[buttock]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

No... such a decline from pre-bubble pricing would constitute a crash... giving back the bubble advancement (i.e., the peak you refer to) is a correction... the bubble pricing isn't sustainable to begin with.

 

 

 

Ding!

[buttock]

[A few of my friends in the 25 to 45 year old range rather play video games then read comics,so it goes beyond just trying to get kids back into reading comics, the bigger concern is the aging comicbook fanbase are now playing the videogames over collecting the comics.So in conclusion the average 25-45 year old is now buying videogames instead of buying comics at his local lcs.

 

It comes down to VALUE - Moderns are so vastly over-priced, and continue to spike with each new increase, that virtually any other entertainment purchase gives you a superior return on your money.

 

The Marvel Ultimate Alliance Gold I picked up for $4.99 at EB is a great example - would I rather buy that or a new comic?

 

This is why I stopped buying moderns in college. A movie (in theater) was $5-6, a comic was $3-5. I read the comic in 5 minutes or less, the movie lasted 90 minutes plus. The dollar-to-minute ratio was horribly off, and that's not even including movie rentals, which are cheaper.

[BlissComics]

It's all comes down to publishers/manufacturers choosing to target one market demographic (affluent adults) over another (mass market kids) in order to get an influx of short-term cash. Cards and comics are marketed directly at adults, priced for adult consumption, and written/printed with adults in mind. It's a strategy that will kill the business in the long-term, but a walking heart attack like Joe Q probably doesn't care.

But haven't publishers (or at least Marvel) been targeting adults instead of kids ever since Stan Lee brought us the Fantastic Four almost 50 years ago?

[chrisco37]

But haven't publishers (or at least Marvel) been targeting adults instead of kids ever since Stan Lee brought us the Fantastic Four almost 50 years ago?

 

Have you ever read the first 20-30 issues of FF?

 

There's no way they were targeting adults with that stuff.

[BlissComics]

But haven't publishers (or at least Marvel) been targeting adults instead of kids ever since Stan Lee brought us the Fantastic Four almost 50 years ago?

 

Have you ever read the first 20-30 issues of FF?

There's no way they were targeting adults with that stuff.

I thought Marvel was writing for an older demographic back in the early 60's, while DC was still writing funny books for 10 year olds

[chrisco37]

But haven't publishers (or at least Marvel) been targeting adults instead of kids ever since Stan Lee brought us the Fantastic Four almost 50 years ago?

 

Have you ever read the first 20-30 issues of FF?

There's no way they were targeting adults with that stuff.

I thought Marvel was writing for an older demographic back in the early 60's, while DC was still writing funny books for 10 year olds

 

I guess, in comparison to DC, it was like writing for an older audience. But those early stories are certainly written for kids (or pre-teens).

[ComicConnoisseur]

But haven't publishers (or at least Marvel) been targeting adults instead of kids ever since Stan Lee brought us the Fantastic Four almost 50 years ago?

 

Have you ever read the first 20-30 issues of FF?

 

There's no way they were targeting adults with that stuff.

I just read the FF OMNIBUS VOLUME 1(1-30) and it was crude, I enjoyed it from a historical perspective and had fun seeing how the book evolved but I don`t think the majority of a modern mainstream audience would go for it. The second FF volume(31-60) was much better but still more at a teenage level then an adult level.

You got to think these were written 40 to 50 years ago and most of them were enjoyable. (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

But haven't publishers (or at least Marvel) been targeting adults instead of kids ever since Stan Lee brought us the Fantastic Four almost 50 years ago?

 

Have you ever read the first 20-30 issues of FF?

 

There's no way they were targeting adults with that stuff.

 

He was attempting to target both. His characters had more realistic motivations and he tried to make the character origins sci-fi for adults, but the stories and plots were mostly written for kids.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Basically there are three ways to make money with these comic collectables

Press up to a higher grade the easiest and most profitable or

The conservative steady way buy the keys and hold onto for at least 3 to 5 years =profit

or buy some crackheads collection on craigslist that needs money fast.

[500Club]

It's not only this, but also the fact that the world has changed. When I was a kid, sports cards and comic books captured my imagination. I have no doubt that if I were a kid today, I'd forsake them for video games and other digital entertainment.

 

When I was a kid in the 1980s, I did both video games and comics. I'm not sure why I wouldn't do the same today...I'm not aware of newly-available digital entertainment now that wasn't available in the 1980s. The quality is better now, but I didn't care, I played video games maybe 4 hours a day and read comics a few times per month.

 

Hey, James Me, too... I did both video games and comics. But consider the games we played. Now consider a game like Red Dead Redemption, or Uncharted 2. These games involve considerably more play time and storyline, and have online PvP options. This is what makes the current crop of games dominate kids' free time.

 

Newly available digital entertainment? - My kids use facebook, constantly text and e-mail friends, fiddle with our new iPad, watch movies on our portable DVD players etc, etc

[the blob]

and currently the avg. age is 38+; and how (in parallel with comics) kids moved from cards to video games and non-traditional cards like Magic/Pokemon and how losing one generation will end up costing sports card companies ongoing generations when dads/parents move away from the hobby and therefore not exposing their kids to the hobby as well.

 

While inherently true, this trend has absolutely nothing to do with "exposing their kids to the hobby". You could drag kids to the local card shows all year and they'd still look at card pack prices of $100-$500+ a pop, and shake their heads.

 

It's all comes down to publishers/manufacturers choosing to target one market demographic (affluent adults) over another (mass market kids) in order to get an influx of short-term cash. Cards and comics are marketed directly at adults, priced for adult consumption, and written/printed with adults in mind. It's a strategy that will kill the business in the long-term, but a walking heart attack like Joe Q probably doesn't care.

 

In a scenario like that, there is no hope to "expose kids to the hobby" since there is no hobby for them any more. So they naturally gravitate to items directly created for, and targeted at, children, like Pokemon cards, video games and Manga.

 

I've been saying the same thing for while now... it's not so much that kids aren't inherently interested in comics anymore... it's more that comics are neither written for nor marketed to kids. The target audience now is 20/30-somethings. Whether this is good or bad for the hobby is debatable... media formats and technologies are converging in unpredictable ways these days so maybe the strategy makes sense but it's hard to say. I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

What era are you talking about? If your talking 1930`s to 1970`s stuff I agree but if its post 1990`s and up stuff then I disagree because other then a handful of post 1990`s books there is no back issue market.

 

Nonesense. There's a big back issue market for 1997/98 books to the present and stuff prior to 89 or so. We're just not talking about much money per book, but there's a ton of these books selling briskly for a buck or so a pop around the country at shops, shows, etc. Of course, if you ignore inflation, if you were a dealer selling recent stuff en masse at a buck a pop in 1987 or 1994 you'd probably be pretty happy.

[the blob]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

 

70% where are these being given away at?

Actually, I mis-spoke. A 9.4 Flash 125 just sold in this past Sunday's Heritage weekly auction for $956, including BP, which is a bit more than 80% below the $5250 price that the 9.4 Mound City copy sold for not so long ago.

 

Now you might say that this copy had C-OW pages, but so did the MC copy.

 

For further perspective, back in 2006, a 9.0 copy sold for $3100. If a 9.4 copy had existed at that time, it would've sold for much more than $5250.

 

There are probably more than a few ultra-HG pedigree GA books in the past year or so that have sold for 60-70% below their peak prices.

 

Of course, $956 for a 9.4 is still 4X+ OPG 9.2...?

 

How on earth did a 9.0 copy sell for nearly 20X guide?

 

But then again, you're only talking about a tiny portion of the market (volume-wise at least). A raw VF copy of 125 is probably not selling for much less, if less at all, than a few years ago.

[tth2]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

 

70% where are these being given away at?

Actually, I mis-spoke. A 9.4 Flash 125 just sold in this past Sunday's Heritage weekly auction for $956, including BP, which is a bit more than 80% below the $5250 price that the 9.4 Mound City copy sold for not so long ago.

 

Now you might say that this copy had C-OW pages, but so did the MC copy.

 

For further perspective, back in 2006, a 9.0 copy sold for $3100. If a 9.4 copy had existed at that time, it would've sold for much more than $5250.

 

There are probably more than a few ultra-HG pedigree GA books in the past year or so that have sold for 60-70% below their peak prices.

 

Of course, $956 for a 9.4 is still 4X+ OPG 9.2...?

 

How on earth did a 9.0 copy sell for nearly 20X guide?

 

But then again, you're only talking about a tiny portion of the market (volume-wise at least). A raw VF copy of 125 is probably not selling for much less, if less at all, than a few years ago.

It was an extreme example, of course, but I'm sure there are many other HG SA books (Marvel and DC) that are off 50% from their peaks.

 

I can certainly think of many SA DC examples.

[TheWatcher]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

 

70% where are these being given away at?

Actually, I mis-spoke. A 9.4 Flash 125 just sold in this past Sunday's Heritage weekly auction for $956, including BP, which is a bit more than 80% below the $5250 price that the 9.4 Mound City copy sold for not so long ago.

 

Now you might say that this copy had C-OW pages, but so did the MC copy.

 

For further perspective, back in 2006, a 9.0 copy sold for $3100. If a 9.4 copy had existed at that time, it would've sold for much more than $5250.

 

There are probably more than a few ultra-HG pedigree GA books in the past year or so that have sold for 60-70% below their peak prices.

 

More than a few of Keller's books have sold for half of what he paid for them

[tth2]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

No... such a decline from pre-bubble pricing would constitute a crash... giving back the bubble advancement (i.e., the peak you refer to) is a correction... the bubble pricing isn't sustainable to begin with.

 

 

Nonsense. The commonly accepted definition of a crash always relates to peak prices.

 

When people talk about stock market crashes, they always refer to the peak, not the prices before the bubble. When people talk about the current housing market crash in the US, it's in relation to the peak 2007 prices, not prices in 2001 or 2002 before the run-up began. In fact, US property prices are still generally higher than even the 2003 prices, but you try telling the average person that property prices haven't crashed.

[tth2]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

 

70% where are these being given away at?

Actually, I mis-spoke. A 9.4 Flash 125 just sold in this past Sunday's Heritage weekly auction for $956, including BP, which is a bit more than 80% below the $5250 price that the 9.4 Mound City copy sold for not so long ago.

 

Now you might say that this copy had C-OW pages, but so did the MC copy.

 

For further perspective, back in 2006, a 9.0 copy sold for $3100. If a 9.4 copy had existed at that time, it would've sold for much more than $5250.

 

There are probably more than a few ultra-HG pedigree GA books in the past year or so that have sold for 60-70% below their peak prices.

 

More than a few of Keller's books have sold for half of what he paid for them

Some for less than half.

[ComicConnoisseur]

and currently the avg. age is 38+; and how (in parallel with comics) kids moved from cards to video games and non-traditional cards like Magic/Pokemon and how losing one generation will end up costing sports card companies ongoing generations when dads/parents move away from the hobby and therefore not exposing their kids to the hobby as well.

 

While inherently true, this trend has absolutely nothing to do with "exposing their kids to the hobby". You could drag kids to the local card shows all year and they'd still look at card pack prices of $100-$500+ a pop, and shake their heads.

 

It's all comes down to publishers/manufacturers choosing to target one market demographic (affluent adults) over another (mass market kids) in order to get an influx of short-term cash. Cards and comics are marketed directly at adults, priced for adult consumption, and written/printed with adults in mind. It's a strategy that will kill the business in the long-term, but a walking heart attack like Joe Q probably doesn't care.

 

In a scenario like that, there is no hope to "expose kids to the hobby" since there is no hobby for them any more. So they naturally gravitate to items directly created for, and targeted at, children, like Pokemon cards, video games and Manga.

 

I've been saying the same thing for while now... it's not so much that kids aren't inherently interested in comics anymore... it's more that comics are neither written for nor marketed to kids. The target audience now is 20/30-somethings. Whether this is good or bad for the hobby is debatable... media formats and technologies are converging in unpredictable ways these days so maybe the strategy makes sense but it's hard to say. I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

What era are you talking about? If your talking 1930`s to 1970`s stuff I agree but if its post 1990`s and up stuff then I disagree because other then a handful of post 1990`s books there is no back issue market.

 

Nonesense. There's a big back issue market for 1997/98 books to the present and stuff prior to 89 or so. We're just not talking about much money per book, but there's a ton of these books selling briskly for a buck or so a pop around the country at shops, shows, etc. Of course, if you ignore inflation, if you were a dealer selling recent stuff en masse at a buck a pop in 1987 or 1994 you'd probably be pretty happy.

If thier selling these new books for a buck a pop then they are losing money as these new books cost over a dollar even after a generous discount from Diamond, retailers paying over $2 dollars to sell for a $1 sounds like a suicidal business practice model?

[EastEnd]

I remain very comfortable however, that there will be no back issue market crash in comics in my lifetime... correction yes (and I think it's already started)... but not a crash.

Would 70% off peak prices for prime pre-1964 SA HG books constitute a crash? Would 50% off peak prices for HG pedigree GA books constitute a crash?

 

No... such a decline from pre-bubble pricing would constitute a crash... giving back the bubble advancement (i.e., the peak you refer to) is a correction... the bubble pricing isn't sustainable to begin with.

 

 

Nonsense. The commonly accepted definition of a crash always relates to peak prices.

 

When people talk about stock market crashes, they always refer to the peak, not the prices before the bubble. When people talk about the current housing market crash in the US, it's in relation to the peak 2007 prices, not prices in 2001 or 2002 before the run-up began. In fact, US property prices are still generally higher than even the 2003 prices, but you try telling the average person that property prices haven't crashed.

 

Well that just isn't right. A rapid run-up followed by a rapid decline is a correction. Sensational journalists and tv talking heads may refer to it as a crash, but economists know better.

 

But in the interest of clarity, I'll define it for purposes of this discussion as a substantial decline in values and interest in a field of collectibles such that the market for such collectibles has irreversably collapsed (e.g., see beanie babies). By historic standards, the pricing for comics today is holding up just fine and it's my expectation that it will continue to do so (albeit with some ups and downs along the way) over the rest of my lifetime.

[Limited66]

Yep. Comic Wars. A great read as is BRIAN HIBBS' TILTING AT WINDMILLS.

+1 (thumbs u