I Officially Give Up

[FlyingDonut]

does someone need me and Ian to give them a hug?

 

 

This is the funniest post I've read in quite some time.

[Guest]

I was one of probably many that emailed the seller asking to sell to me off of ebay. Of course I found these by accident while searching for my beloved MTU's and saw this when it was freshly listed with not one single bid. I did not attempt to lowball the seller I just made the inquiry of whether or not the seller would sell me all the comic lots outside of ebay and to name a price. She replied stating that she never ends auctions, so no big deal. I can definitely respect that since I apply the same rules if an item of mine already has bids in place. There goes my chance of completing my 35 cent variant MTU run for cheap

 

THIEVES!!! GYPSIES!!!!... and what were the other terms? Ahhh, forget it

 

How refreshing to hear that somebody posting on this site is actually looking to buy 35 cent variants as cheaply as possible!

 

On the rules posted by ghoulaid: I can't remember where, but in the back of my head I think I saw something along those lines at some time. That may be one reason, subconciuosly perhaps, that I typically try to get a BIN to end the auction.

 

While that settles a question I had, I wonder what the enforceability is of that. This is not anything other than a "terms of agreement" lingo, meaning if you agree to do business on eBay, you agree to these terms whether they would be legal or not outside of ebay. To that extent it would certainly seem unethical, at least, to try and make off eBay offers.

 

I don't think it would preclude you from having the seller cancel the auction , relist it on eBay and set you up as the only legitimate bidder. While I'm not sure how that is done, Somebody made me aware of it in a thread I had started last week.

 

I am supposing that as long as you don't cut eBay out of the deal you have no problems.

[Darthdiesel]

2004: THE YEAR OF THE VARIANT!

[jbud73]

does someone need me and Ian to give them a hug?

 

 

This is the funniest post I've read in quite some time.

 

I missed that the first go around thanks FD. Thats quite a few funnies from Metro this week, looks like Vince is enjoying not being in the CGC forum hot seat and watching a few others each other for a while.

[awe4one]

My point was that NOBODY (at least not recently) has coughed up more dough in one sitting than me for quality 35 cent variant books than me. I have also found more hidden variants and variants on the "cheap" than most folks. I think that gives me the right to enter the fray on the "ethics" of how books are bought on the cheap or in straight forward negotiations.

 

But it doesn't make your ethics right......

 

It seems the crux of the problem is being glossed over here. A person put an auction on eBay, people bid on the lots, and someone talked her into ending the auction thus canceling all the "legal" bids. This is unethical...

 

Why couldn't the buyer just bid like everyone else? What were they scared off? Maybe that they would have to pay near market value for the comics? The process of getting "maybe" unsuspecting sellers to sell off eBay is unethical. The buyer (at least in this case) was trying to circumvent the process and get the comics on the cheap. If not, the seller would have never relisted.

 

It can be preached all day that what almost occurred here wasn't necessarily unethical based on hours and hours of research, seller complicity, or some other excuse/rational to make a potential buyer willing to compromise their integrity in this manner feel better. Fact is someone tried to fleece the seller and screw those collectors that know the rules and have the moral fiber to stick by them.

 

Really.....I can't believe some are trying to justify this buyer's actions.....

 

Jim

[DaethWalker]

Actually, I had already found CGC and was researching the 35 cent price variants before Glenn directed me this way. And yes, his 1st offer was for around $40.00, which for the average variant was around 2-10x NM guide ... well, last years guide.

 

As far as what happened with these auctions, the only person at fault, IMHO is the seller. They got greedy and went for the 1st offer. Probably figured to grab the money and run before the buyer realised he'd offered too much.

 

Was it wrong to make the offer though? I don't think so. No matter how many views and bids. That's the thing about online auctions. They're not really auctions. And people are gonna get pi$$ed at the way some people deal online. Whether it's sniping or getting the seller to close early, or something else.

 

As far as the value of the comics? That's basically up to you variant collectors. Personally, I think $40 per comic is a fair price. Though, the $140 I got off of Glenn is even better.

 

That said, he might turn around and sell many of the higher grade copies for $400+ in 6 months or a yr. Does that mean I got ripped off? Nope, just means the market changed.

[drbanner]

Was it wrong to make the offer though? I don't think so. No matter how many views and bids. That's the thing about online auctions. They're not really auctions. And people are gonna get pi$$ed at the way some people deal online. Whether it's sniping or getting the seller to close early, or something else.

 

Ebay's rules make it crystal clear that ANY offer sent asking the seller to end the auction early and sell it to them at a fixed price "off line" are a a no-no (which is why they came up with the relist/BIN/specify the buyer option). Who thinks it's unethical to break ebay's rules by doing this?

 

Since everyone here admits they do it, I think what we have here are a bunch of black kettles yelling at the pots...

[awe4one]

Since everyone here admits they do it, I think what we have here are a bunch of black kettles yelling at the pots...

 

I don't do it....as a buyer or a seller.

 

Jim

[drbanner]

Since everyone here admits they do it, I think what we have here are a bunch of black kettles yelling at the pots...

 

I don't do it....as a buyer or a seller.

 

Jim

 

Ok, I was wrong. I should have said "Since most people here do it...", but the point was more that it's hypocritical to say it's okay to break ebay rules, but it's not okay to break ebay rules if there are bids on the book. I've done it as a buyer, but I have declined to do it as a seller after bids were placed.

[awe4one]

Since everyone here admits they do it, I think what we have here are a bunch of black kettles yelling at the pots...

 

I don't do it....as a buyer or a seller.

 

Jim

 

Ok, I was wrong. I should have said "Since most people here do it...", but the point was more that it's hypocritical to say it's okay to break ebay rules, but it's not okay to break ebay rules if there are bids on the book. I've done it as a buyer, but I have declined to do it as a seller after bids were placed.

 

And it's the fact that bids were placed on the auction that has people yelling. I wouldn't characterize it as hypocritical. It's not the eBay rules that I have a problem with....it's circumventing the process and screwing those that put in a good faith bid that aggravates.

 

I like to think comic collectors and this hobby are better than this. Which is becoming quite difficult after this situation, the other variant thread, and the higher Heritage reslabs.

 

Jim

[underthebigw]

Since everyone here admits they do it, I think what we have here are a bunch of black kettles yelling at the pots...

 

I don't do it....as a buyer or a seller.

 

Jim

 

Ok, I was wrong. I should have said "Since most people here do it...", but the point was more that it's hypocritical to say it's okay to break ebay rules, but it's not okay to break ebay rules if there are bids on the book. I've done it as a buyer, but I have declined to do it as a seller after bids were placed.

 

That's the thing, though---it's not breaking the rules if you do it correctly and let ebay get their cut. And it's not breaking ebay's rules, which I'm pretty sure they adjusted to permit this, then the only unethical things you have to worry about is ending an auction with current bids from other collectors and not totally fleecing the seller. C'mon, we're not talking Action 1 here.

[drbanner]

That's the thing, though---it's not breaking the rules if you do it correctly and let ebay get their cut. And it's not breaking ebay's rules, which I'm pretty sure they adjusted to permit this, then the only unethical things you have to worry about is ending an auction with current bids from other collectors and not totally fleecing the seller. C'mon, we're not talking Action 1 here.

 

Action 1 or Dazzler 1...why does $$ matter?

 

So it's okay to shaft other collectors within the ebay rules (setting up a BIN/limited bidder auction with the seller on an auction that currently has bids) and outside the rules for an auction without bids, but not outside the rules if there are bids (as two forum members recently did with that 9.4 FF 103).

 

And what about the ubiquitous bidder that sets a snipe on an auction with no bids, but the auction gets pulled by an off-line sale? I'm sure this happens all the time, and by the above rules, you're still in the clear to shaft those bidders (except that you may have broken ebay rules if it was an off-line sale?). Clear as mud!?!?

[underthebigw]

That's the thing, though---it's not breaking the rules if you do it correctly and let ebay get their cut. And it's not breaking ebay's rules, which I'm pretty sure they adjusted to permit this, then the only unethical things you have to worry about is ending an auction with current bids from other collectors and not totally fleecing the seller. C'mon, we're not talking Action 1 here.

 

Action 1 or Dazzler 1...why does $$ matter?

 

So it's okay to shaft other collectors within the ebay rules (setting up a BIN/limited bidder auction with the seller on an auction that currently has bids) and outside the rules for an auction without bids, but not outside the rules if there are bids (as two forum members recently did with that 9.4 FF 103).

 

And what about the ubiquitous bidder that sets a snipe on an auction with no bids, but the auction gets pulled by an off-line sale? I'm sure this happens all the time, and by the above rules, you're still in the clear to shaft those bidders (except that you may have broken ebay rules if it was an off-line sale?). Clear as mud!?!?

 

No, I think you misread what I've already said a couple of times. For me, the line in the sand is auctions that already have bids. For the longest time, I held off on trying to arrange BIN's with sellers, but saw that this was being done by other variant and character glass collectors. I complained to ebay dozens of times (usually regarding glasses, where it is even more widespread) and, without fail, their response was that sellers had a right to end auctions early for whatever reason they choose. So, if it is within the rules and it's what I need to do to compete, then it's ethical in my mind. To say it's not ethical in these situations is equivalen to those who say sniping isn't ethical. Here are my personal rules on this:

 

-I never try to arrange BIN's on auctions with bids. And that's true for collectors I know and those I don't. I've never spoken to bonas or cosmic-spider-man (2 other variant collectors) but I would never try to arrange a BIN on an auction they've bid on.

-I never try to arrange BIN's for variants I know other collectors need and I have.

-I never ask sellers who agree to BIN's to make me the only pre-approved bidder. I don't think this is fair, and to me there has to be a chance for others to have a shot. I have to hope the seller agrees and that I see it before anyone else once it is changed.

-I NEVER totally scr@w the seller. I pay the most I am willing to given what I know about the book, and always ask the seller what he wants. In many cases, I've offered significantly more. In one noteworthy recent case, I offered what the seller asked simply because I wasn't willing to pay more. It just wasn't worth more to me. Tell me how this is different that coming across something at a flea market.

- As for "shafting" bidders that plan to snipe, I have one simple explanation. We all adopt bidding strategies, and every single one of them has, within ebay's rules, certain risks and benefits. I've sniped on ebay for the past 7 years and I've lost plenty of items because of this. Arranged BIN's are just another chance snipers take, especially in this limited field, when every single one of us pretty much knows each others bidding habits. And, as Glenn has shown in Bronze thread, arranging BIN's also has certain risks.

 

Finally, in my mind, the amount of money does matter. It would be grossly unethical to pick up an Action 1, regardless of setting, for $5 from someone who was oblivious. In my mind, it is not unethical to snap up a price variant for $25-50 from an uneducated seller when it may or may not be worth $100-$200 in 5 years. There's a world of difference there and to ignore this is to be ethically rigid.

[drbanner]

...if it is within the rules and it's what I need to do to compete, then it's ethical in my mind.