FF 50 shenanigans on Pedigree?

[Silver Surfer]

Do you only post in between episodes of Jersey Shore?

Worst show ever.. And they arent Jersey people they are NYers who come to, and pollute the shore area. I guess they dumped so much krap in the water by them its the only place they havent tuned into a toxic wasteland.. Seriously I hate that show.

 

That show is painfully boring. Bunch of roid monkeys and all the high school drama, give me a break.

[FlyingDonut]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

But the torches are lit. The people are crying out for justice.

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Y'all take this for what it's worth.

 

The idea of ethical or unethical in this hobby is somewhat humorous to me. I've said this before, I'll say this again, there's little in the line of ethics that seems to govern in our hobby. This isn't to say there aren't ethical people, it's simply to say that when people seem to see the gold ring, they go for it without regard to anything else.

 

I think it's funny to see Doug as one of the "big boys" of the hobby. If there were no CGC, my guess is Doug would be bankrupt right now. He would have been disbarred, and his collection, while valuable, would not have sustained him the way it has, nor would the creation of an auction site been as viable. Historically, Doug owed several people money (in the comic world) without paying, took long amounts of time before paying, etc.

 

With regards to the issue of disbarment, I actually believe it is related to comics in a round about way. Almost every dealer described Doug as an actual comic junkie. Someone who was an addict. Who had to have the best book. When he wanted pac coast books, he went after them with a vengeance and with blinders on. This led him to some fantastic wins (i.e. FF 1 9.6). He also was taken advantage of -- reportedly by dealers who knew his weakness or his willingness to "overpay". Fortunately, that "overpaying" paid huge dividends. Some could call it foresight, and in Brulato's case, that's exactly what I'd call it. In Schmell's case, I'd call it luck.

 

With all this said, Schmell is a good guy in person. I'd call many of his ethical "challenges" prior to disbarment as a result of his "disease". Were he an alcoholic etc., I think it'd absolutely be classified this way. Do I believe he tried to rip people off now? I doubt he'd view it that way, but I do think there are some shady, questionable and possibly unethical things going on in the way he runs business.

 

While it's not an excuse, it's probably par for the course.

 

Ethics in the hobby comes up often on the boards. I just wonder how many people think that, both collectors when selling and dealers alike, are ethical. Since there are so many dealer/collectors these days, I wonder where the ethics are. There are plenty of those who many think are ethical in both realms where some more than questionable stories are floating out there with verified facts from the parties relaying them. Board members included. Of course, there's no need to even be cryptic, as we've seen several board members undergo bouts in the probation thread where they are the same people who also touted tough "ethics" etc.

 

When questioning the ethics of a dealer, I think we ought not to confine it to them. I think it's unfortunate so many dealers are dishonest, but I do think praise is deserved for those who are consistently honest. People like Bob Storms, Richard Evans, Dale Roberts, Dave Reynolds, Dave Kapelka and others deserve our support with our dollars. When people chase and choose to pursue those who are less than ethical because they "have the books I want" we are simply feeding into the system that allows this sort of thing to continue perpetuating.

 

Everyone is free to make their own calls. Perhaps the last 10 years of "education" I've received has only caused me to become jaded about our hobby in many ways. There are some very well connected people who have told me how disgusted they are, and that while I know a lot, it is dwarfed by some of the things they have seen first hand. That's a bit disturbing considering how many things I know.

 

My faith in the hobby is reaffirmed by those good colleagues and friends I've made in the hobby. I'm still excited to go and pick up high grade copies of all types of books. Bronze, Coppers and early silver and bronze. There's tons of great books out there completely unmanipulated etc.

 

My last word is on Metropolis who I see often maligned here and again in this thread. While I know that there are several strong opinions about Steve Fishler, I will only say that I am always fair about my criticism of the pros and cons of Metropolis. To me, Vincent Zurzolo, who I have battled with often about some of the business practices of Metropolis on discounting etc., is a person of high integrity and honesty. I really think highly of Vinny, despite going to the mat with him often. In the interest of full disclosure, I do buy from Metropolis but there are no crazy discounts or any special treatment. Metropolis is ripped here to me all too often extremely unfairly. On the issue of raw books, like every dealer, they have both under and over graded books. I'm not sure why they are a popular target of the whole, "I got an overgraded book" thread, but those on top are always more likely to be ripped.

 

I hope there's more discussion as we move forward on ethics in the hobby. Especially the high end vintage end. That being said, our behavior as consumers does have a direct impact if we continue to allow those who operate unethically to do business as usual.

 

Great post Brian. Some valid points here for sure. (thumbs u

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Do you only post in between episodes of Jersey Shore?

Worst show ever.. And they arent Jersey people they are NYers who come to, and pollute the shore area. I guess they dumped so much krap in the water by them its the only place they havent tuned into a toxic wasteland.. Seriously I hate that show.

 

That show is painfully boring. Bunch of roid monkeys and all the high school drama, give me a break.

I know... They arent even actually allowed to be out in public. They basically have security around them at all times. Its like they are in prison, but not allowed in general population because the other inmates would murder them. Seriously, alot of people down here want a piece of them..

[VintageComics]

Do you only post in between episodes of Jersey Shore?

Worst show ever.. And they arent Jersey people they are NYers who come to, and pollute the shore area. I guess they dumped so much krap in the water by them its the only place they havent tuned into a toxic wasteland.. Seriously I hate that show.

 

That show is painfully boring. Bunch of roid monkeys and all the high school drama, give me a break.

I know... They arent even actually allowed to be out in public. They basically have security around them at all times. Its like they are in prison, but not allowed in general population because the other inmates would murder them. Seriously, alot of people down here want a piece of them..

 

Didn't spanky or whatever her name is (the short dark one, no sorry the shortest, darkest one) just get lifted at the beach for something?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Do you only post in between episodes of Jersey Shore?

Worst show ever.. And they arent Jersey people they are NYers who come to, and pollute the shore area. I guess they dumped so much krap in the water by them its the only place they havent tuned into a toxic wasteland.. Seriously I hate that show.

 

That show is painfully boring. Bunch of roid monkeys and all the high school drama, give me a break.

I know... They arent even actually allowed to be out in public. They basically have security around them at all times. Its like they are in prison, but not allowed in general population because the other inmates would murder them. Seriously, alot of people down here want a piece of them..

 

Didn't spanky or whatever her name is (the short dark one, no sorry the shortest, darkest one) just get lifted at the beach for something?

Drunken or something. I really try not to pay attention to them.

[arexcrooke]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

do facts belong in this thread?

Facts are always good.

However, I can foresee this happening many times over as more and more books are "sold" and then relisted on Pedigree immediately.

The issue, as I see it, is that through his many misdeeds and sleight of hands, Doug has created an atmosphere of mistrust that many on the boards are aware of. With that heightened awareness comes a closer watch on anything that doesnt pass the smell test, whether they are legit or not.

 

[lizards2]

This is not to pick on you as I've had people I respect here say essentially the same thing.

That lets me out.

 

Hey Doc - you here to defend Satan in this thread?

Satan doesn't need any help from me.

 

Besides, I have my own opinions and ideas of which I believe most folks are aware. As a person and for as many times as I physically see him in a given year, I like Doug. Whether anyone chooses to do business with him or not is their own prerogative.

 

Yo, Man. I was trying to be funny. I don't know Doug. I'm a bottom-feeder, and don't swim in those circles.

 

Satan has been mentioned many times in this thread..., and, many seem to claim we'd all buy the right book from him. I just want to go on record that I've never been ripped off by Satan...., as far as I know.

[DrWatson]

This is not to pick on you as I've had people I respect here say essentially the same thing.

That lets me out.

 

Hey Doc - you here to defend Satan in this thread?

Satan doesn't need any help from me.

 

Besides, I have my own opinions and ideas of which I believe most folks are aware. As a person and for as many times as I physically see him in a given year, I like Doug. Whether anyone chooses to do business with him or not is their own prerogative.

 

Yo, Man. I was trying to be funny. I don't know Doug. I'm a bottom-feeder, and don't swim in those circles.

 

Satan has been mentioned many times in this thread..., and, many seem to claim we'd all buy the right book from him. I just want to go on record that I've never been ripped off by Satan...., as far as I know.

I forgot the .

 

I don't think our ideas are that far removed from one another. You know, it isn't Satan that you have to watch out for. We all know Satan. We all know to be wary when we have dealings with those types of dealers. Buyer beware and all. It's those bullets with butterfly wings that people should be wary of as you don't typically see them coming. Those are the ones that will take you out.

 

Anyway, perhaps one day we will cross paths. Then, we can sit around swapping war stories and be intolerant together.

[gpanalysis]

I think the person who started this thread should probably go back and adjust the first post to reflect the facts:

 

1. The sale is legitimate, I have seen the payment as with all Pedigree sales

2. The buyer is selling it because of a number of reasons

3. Doug is not charging his usual commission on this

4. I know the parties involved

 

Don't think anything more needs to be said.

[Mark 1]

Guys- I haven't looked through the whole thread, but I know the seller from the initial sale on Pedigree + it was absolutely a legit sale. The current owner had thought the book had upgrade potential, showed it to the pressing experts + was told that it wouldn't upgrade. So now the book is back up for sale. Not how I like to spend my $$, but to each his own

 

Interesting and believable ..no need to read the rest of the thread now...

 

I also should have mentioned earlier in case it wasn't noticed. I live in Florida and i'm about 30 minutes away from Pedigree.

 

Imagine my surprise when I saw that Pedigree was local to me. Before I even knew anything about Doug's problems on this site I thought to myself....It is extremely easy for me to get high grade hard to find silver locally. How cool is that? No shipping...no waiting... I don't know how it is in your city but nobody else around has a collection of slabs like Pedigree in South Florida.

 

I am willing to bet had I lived somewhere else far away, I probably wouldn't have bought from Pedigree because of everything that is said on this forum.

 

If others were in my shoes and you had that kind of access to locally buying AMAZING books...I wonder what you would do...call me crazy.

 

And, since I believe in community and this online community...If I was aware or become aware of anyone here coming out and saying they were screwed over by Doug and his company or any company.. I would change my buying practices.

 

OH, and now it comes out that this was all nothing with nothing...

 

'nuff said

 

 

[DrWatson]

What!?! No more wild accusations and rampant speculation? Sigh, I guess it's back to the Christians and the lions. How passé.

[Mark 1]

I think the person who started this thread should probably go back and adjust the first post to reflect the facts:

 

1. The sale is legitimate, I have seen the payment as with all Pedigree sales

2. The buyer is selling it because of a number of reasons

3. Doug is not charging his usual commission on this

4. I know the parties involved

 

Don't think anything more needs to be said.

 

Nice post! End of story on the witch hunt.

[plasticide-migration]

Also, as an added bonus is the awesome "Paypal" charge which is patently illegal iirc.

 

It's not illegal as in against the law, credit card companies just don't like it for obvious reasons and can revoke a seller's ability to accept credit card payments. If something like that were illegal, I'd really feel like a slave to credit card company lobbyists in this free market economy we have.

 

Not sure if this was ever answered, but I'm pretty sure it is illegal (against the law) in several states, New York (CLink) and California (Ebay/Paypal) being the biggies. Josh was charging an illegal 3% and if you put "If you use Paypal you have to pay an extra 3%" in an Ebay auction it will be pulled down/cancelled.

[shadroch]

What, exactly, would you need? I assume you've read the sad tale of the trimmed Ewert book by now? Do you need his former law clients to come on here? Aren't the findings of the NY State Bar Association enough for you?

I live less than ten miles from Danny Dupchak. I could pick up my books from him and not pay shipping, but the man is a liar and a cheat and a wart on the community.

Are you seriously saying that your ethics are different because he's close by?

How far away would you have to live before you decided not to deal with him? Is fifty miles enough? One hundred?

If Dupchak moved to your town, would you try to justify buying from him?

[lizards2]

This is not to pick on you as I've had people I respect here say essentially the same thing.

That lets me out.

 

Hey Doc - you here to defend Satan in this thread?

Satan doesn't need any help from me.

 

Besides, I have my own opinions and ideas of which I believe most folks are aware. As a person and for as many times as I physically see him in a given year, I like Doug. Whether anyone chooses to do business with him or not is their own prerogative.

 

Yo, Man. I was trying to be funny. I don't know Doug. I'm a bottom-feeder, and don't swim in those circles.

 

Satan has been mentioned many times in this thread..., and, many seem to claim we'd all buy the right book from him. I just want to go on record that I've never been ripped off by Satan...., as far as I know.

I forgot the .

 

I don't think our ideas are that far removed from one another. You know, it isn't Satan that you have to watch out for. We all know Satan. We all know to be wary when we have dealings with those types of dealers. Buyer beware and all. It's those bullets with butterfly wings that people should be wary of as you don't typically see them coming. Those are the ones that will take you out.

 

Anyway, perhaps one day we will cross paths. Then, we can sit around swapping war stories and be intolerant together.

 

Don't forget...., Arrogant Dismissive and either Homophobic or Heterophobic (whichever way you swing)

[Mark 1]

What, exactly, would you need? I assume you've read the sad tale of the trimmed Ewert book by now? Do you need his former law clients to come on here? Aren't the findings of the NY State Bar Association enough for you?

I live less than ten miles from Danny Dupchak. I could pick up my books from him and not pay shipping, but the man is a liar and a cheat and a wart on the community.

Are you seriously saying that your ethics are different because he's close by?

How far away would you have to live before you decided not to deal with him? Is fifty miles enough? One hundred?

If Dupchak moved to your town, would you try to justify buying from him?

 

Quite honestly I don't care what you think. So do what you like and I will do be same.

[DrWatson]

Don't forget...., Arrogant Dismissive and either Homophobic or Heterophobic (whichever way you swing)

Arrogant: check.

 

Dismissive: check.

 

I'm afraid I don't swing, period.

[arexcrooke]

Mood swings

[LordRahl]

I think the person who started this thread should probably go back and adjust the first post to reflect the facts:

 

1. The sale is legitimate, I have seen the payment as with all Pedigree sales

2. The buyer is selling it because of a number of reasons

3. Doug is not charging his usual commission on this

4. I know the parties involved

 

Don't think anything more needs to be said.

 

I edited my post. Perhaps Doug will now realize what his past behavior has done to his rep. Anything that is suspicious looking, as this was on the surface, will be taken to be shady until proven otherwise. Even by people like me that tend to not jump on bandwagons like this without plenty of evidence.