FF 50 shenanigans on Pedigree?

[Transplant]

[namisgr]

doesn't bob or namisgr have a FF 50 CGC 9.4 for sale? i've seen it in the past FS threads, and i think it's a pedigree to boot.

 

This isn't my copy being discussed, as mine has white pages and is not for sale at the moment.

[fantastic_four]

I understand your desire to have Comiclink's data added to the pool of info. I think we all would appreciate that. But to vilify Josh by saying that his choice to not include that data somehow taints the existing GPA info is just wrong. He has his reasons. While I am a small small fry, I too have chosen not to report my sales to GPA. There are two very important reasons why I don't do it. Time and value. I chose to not make the time to compile, list, and report sales data to George. And I chose to retain that info for myself because I deem it of some value to me.

 

You'd have to compile, as would most dealers--Josh doesn't. Big difference. I didn't vilify Josh--I explicitly contrasted him by calling him ethical, but that he's adversely affecting me more than Doug's behavior is. I still believe that to be true, although that'll change if his data is bad enough for George to boot him.

[DrWatson]

I understand your desire to have Comiclink's data added to the pool of info. I think we all would appreciate that. But to vilify Josh by saying that his choice to not include that data somehow taints the existing GPA info is just wrong. He has his reasons. While I am a small small fry, I too have chosen not to report my sales to GPA. There are two very important reasons why I don't do it. Time and value. I chose to not make the time to compile, list, and report sales data to George. And I chose to retain that info for myself because I deem it of some value to me.

 

You'd have to compile, as would most dealers--Josh doesn't. Big difference. I didn't vilify Josh--I explicitly contrasted him by calling him ethical, but that he's adversely affecting me more than Doug's behavior is. I still believe that to be true, although that'll change if his data is bad enough for George to boot him.

Yo don't know he's ethical. You assume he's ethical based on your dealings with him.

 

If ComicLink data were added to GPA it would only serve to skew the data even more. How many people watching those auctions know that XYZ Comics #34 in CGC 9.2 went for a record price because it will be resurfacing as a 9.6 in the near future?

[namisgr]

I'd like to play devils' advocate and offer another view that hasn't been discussed here yet. Please weigh in.

 

While Doug's behavior as an attorney was reprehensible and caused him to be disbarred, it also evoked a strong punishment. He paid for his shameful handling of his law practice and lost his law business.

 

Many of us have bought and sold comics through Doug quite successfully and without incident. Given that track record of successful comic transactions, and the fact that the legal profession has already laid out its punishment, the question each of us face is: do we want to continue to do comic business with Doug? While I can see that many would choose not to, I can also see where a comic collector could dissociate Doug's problems with his legal practice from his comic business.

 

With that said, the matter of potential manipulation of the comic market with selective release of sales data is another issue entirely.

[fantastic_four]

Yo don't know he's ethical. You assume he's ethical based on your dealings with him.

 

If ComicLink data were added to GPA it would only serve to skew the data even more. How many people watching those auctions know that XYZ Comics #34 in CGC 9.2 went for a record price because it will be resurfacing as a 9.6 in the near future?

 

I assume he's ethical based upon my dealings with him and based upon the fact that I can't recall anyone here showing evidence of unethical behavior on his part. If I've forgotten something, a reminder would help.

 

If pressing didn't exist, your point would still exist because a buyer might pay a high price for a book they considered to be strong for the grade. There's also a cap to what someone will pay for a potential upgrade--something like 25% to 50% of the difference between the current and projected grade prices. It's something that affects all data and something to correct for whether it's a sale from ComicLink, Bedrock, Gator, or whoever.

[DrWatson]

I assume he's ethical based upon my dealings with him and based upon the fact that I can't recall anyone here showing evidence of unethical behavior on his part. If I've forgotten something, a reminder would help.

I can't point to any thing specific as most if not all ComicLink threads usually get pulled quicker than an alter boy at a Catholic priest convention.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

Well that affirmation and the one above where you stated "I don't even buy high grade SA and I see that shet everywhere. I'm sure there's more than a handful of dealers right on these boards that could get you your fix" are contradictory, so I don't know which to believe.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow that there's a contradiction anywhere? Mark1 says he buys from Doug, despite what he's heard, b/c he has the books he can't find elsewhere.

 

I'm simply stating my perception that what he buys (high grade, SA) isn't hard to find. That's my perception since I see countless offerings every single month at auction, not to mention numerous boardies in the for sale section offering high grade silver. Without knowing the exact specifics of what he buys, perhaps i'm wrong and the high grade silver he's looking for isn't available anywhere else.

 

What exactly is the contradiction?

[Bomber-Bob]

Questions on reporting to GPA.

- How does a dealer report a sale involving cash and trade ?

- If a discount is applied to the stack, how does the dealer allocate the discount

to the individual books reported to GPA ?

Recognizing there is no specific answer to the above = the dealers can report however they want, it points out how GPA data can be manipulated. Also, I suspect many dealers do not report all sales to GPA, especially with convention sales.

[fantastic_four]

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

High grade late Silver is everywhere. High grade early Silver isn't on a LOT of issues from both DC and Marvel. Nosebleed early Silver is almost universally unavailable except for certain issues that were parts of various random stashes. This is the stuff Doug specializes in, particularly in his auctions.

[Transplant]

With that said, the matter of potential manipulation of the comic market with selective release of sales data is another issue entirely.

There have been more allegations, than just selective reporting to GPA, that impact the comic community: trying to slip a known trimmed book by CGC; possibly encouraging people to have friends shill their auctions; etc. Those are the first two of what I've read here before. It's not as simple as people not being able to separate the two parts of his life.

[DrWatson]

It's all open to interpretation. That's why GPA is only... wait for it... a guide. It just like market reports for Overstreet. Do you think a contributing Overstreet advisor who's sitting on a blue-freakin'-million funny animal books isn't going to predict how hot they should be in the coming year? There's market manipulation or at least attempted manipulation in all data that's compiled from different sources.

 

Furthermore, I would go so far as to say that manipulated auction data gets translated into new Overstreet prices even if it isn't reported to GPA.

[hockey&comicsguy]

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

High grade late Silver is everywhere. High grade early Silver isn't on a LOT of issues from both DC and Marvel. Nosebleed early Silver is almost universally unavailable except for certain issues that were parts of various random stashes. This is the stuff Doug specializes in, particularly in his auctions.

 

 

These are specifics and good to know. Is this all that he offers? Is this exactly what Mark1 buys? I don't know any of these things. I thought he stated he buys HG SA. So without knowing specifics I was just generalizing. Of course this has nothing to do with the issue, which is buying from somebody whose moral compass probably shouldn't guide the hobby.

[MrBedrock]

I understand your desire to have Comiclink's data added to the pool of info. I think we all would appreciate that. But to vilify Josh by saying that his choice to not include that data somehow taints the existing GPA info is just wrong. He has his reasons. While I am a small small fry, I too have chosen not to report my sales to GPA. There are two very important reasons why I don't do it. Time and value. I chose to not make the time to compile, list, and report sales data to George. And I chose to retain that info for myself because I deem it of some value to me.

 

You'd have to compile, as would most dealers--Josh doesn't. Big difference. I didn't vilify Josh--I explicitly contrasted him by calling him ethical, but that he's adversely affecting me more than Doug's behavior is. I still believe that to be true, although that'll change if his data is bad enough for George to boot him.

Josh would be required to compile all of the sales data on the static sales portion of his site. That data can't be mined in the same way as the final auction prices can. Otherwise his data reporting would be considered selective.

[thirdgreenham]

Chris,

 

This might have been better placed in the Pedigree thread, where we've already got loads of examples of 'market manipulation'.

 

Oh, wait a minute...

 

Sorry, forgot that that one got locked for no reason whatsoever...other than to keep the gravy train rolling.

 

I'm all for Locked Thread points but some threads serve a higher (informational) purpose.

 

Would it be appropriate to post a +1 here?

[blazingbob]

This book was for sale in San Diego.

 

 

[Mark 1]

 

Well that affirmation and the one above where you stated "I don't even buy high grade SA and I see that shet everywhere. I'm sure there's more than a handful of dealers right on these boards that could get you your fix" are contradictory, so I don't know which to believe.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow that there's a contradiction anywhere? Mark1 says he buys from Doug, despite what he's heard, b/c he has the books he can't find elsewhere.

 

I'm simply stating my perception that what he buys (high grade, SA) isn't hard to find. That's my perception since I see countless offerings every single month at auction, not to mention numerous boardies in the for sale section offering high grade silver. Without knowing the exact specifics of what he buys, perhaps i'm wrong and the high grade silver he's looking for isn't available anywhere else.

 

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

Jeez louise!!! You act like I am the only one on this forum who buys comics from Doug.

 

The guy isn't one of the top silver age CGC dealers due to me. I am .01% of his sales. Probably less. I have bought 5 books from Doug. That's it...5. I get the feeling many more buy from him on this site but just don't speak up for fear or whatever...

 

And, for a guy who many question his morals and ethics on here...why is he still a contributor to the OSPG? Not that I am saying these allegations occurred or didnt occur but why is it that "satan" as some call him here would still be a viable dealer who contributes to this hobby year after year? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

Regardless...I will buy my books from people who treat me right. McDonalds reportedly sells and markets death food to our kids...yet they are still in business and are one of the top fast food chains in the world.

 

Everytime you fill up your gas tank you are contributing to thieves who are destroying our planet.

 

Somethings just need a little perspective. We are just talking about comic books for pete's sake.

 

By the way, cheers to everyone because I respect all your opinions.

 

With all this said...the one dealer I was screwed by and will probably never deal with again nobody says a word about....Metropolis....now that is a company I would prefer to stay away from (especially raw books).

[LordRahl]

This book was for sale in San Diego.

 

 

Interesting Because it was on his site a few weeks ago and eventually "sold" for $13,400. It was reported sold to GPA at $13,400 on July 28th although I'm pretty sure I saw it marked as sold on the site before that. Wasn't SDCC the week of July 19th?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

 

Well that affirmation and the one above where you stated "I don't even buy high grade SA and I see that shet everywhere. I'm sure there's more than a handful of dealers right on these boards that could get you your fix" are contradictory, so I don't know which to believe.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow that there's a contradiction anywhere? Mark1 says he buys from Doug, despite what he's heard, b/c he has the books he can't find elsewhere.

 

I'm simply stating my perception that what he buys (high grade, SA) isn't hard to find. That's my perception since I see countless offerings every single month at auction, not to mention numerous boardies in the for sale section offering high grade silver. Without knowing the exact specifics of what he buys, perhaps i'm wrong and the high grade silver he's looking for isn't available anywhere else.

 

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

Jeez louise!!! You act like I am the only one on this forum who buys comics from Doug.

 

The guy isn't one of the top silver age CGC dealers due to me. I am .01% of his sales. Probably less. I have bought 5 books from Doug. That's it...5. I get the feeling many more buy from him on this site but just don't speak up for fear or whatever...

 

And, for a guy who many question his morals and ethics on here...why is he still a contributor to the OSPG? Not that I am saying these allegations occurred or didnt occur but why is it that "satan" as some call him here would still be a viable dealer who contributes to this hobby year after year? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

Regardless...I will buy my books from people who treat me right. McDonalds reportedly sells and markets death food to our kids...yet they are still in business and are one of the top fast food chains in the world.

 

Everytime you fill up your gas tank you are contributing to thieves who are destroying our planet.

 

Somethings just need a little perspective. We are just talking about comic books for pete's sake.

 

By the way, cheers to everyone because I respect all your opinions.

 

With all this said...the one dealer I was screwed by and will probably never deal with again nobody says a word about....Metropolis....now that is a company I would prefer to stay away from (especially raw books).

I dont buy books from either dealer you brought up. Mostly because I would rather light my money on fire. (thumbs u

[Old Fashion PB and J]

This book was for sale in San Diego.

 

 

Interesting Because it was on his site a few weeks ago and eventually "sold" for $13,400. It was reported sold to GPA at $13,400 on July 28th although I'm pretty sure I saw it marked as sold on the site before that. Wasn't SDCC the week of July 19th?

Its not interesting, wasnt the same stuff discussed in the last pedigree thread.