Pay Pal: Can I avoid getting robbed and yet not offend customers?

[RushComics]

Strange Tales Auction

 

Of my two CGC auctions that ended recently, the one for the Strange Tales # 101 was won by a bidder in the UK. I stated in my auction that I could accept PayPal for US confirmed bidders covered under Pay Pal's Seller Protection Policy.

 

I e-mailed him his totals with shipping, and re-stated that I'd need a money order,

I even mentioned (as suggested by a poster here) that it may be possible to pay using Bid Pal through Western Union.

 

The customer's reply seemed irate. He says that my auction wasn't clear enough and he would not have bid if he knew that I would not accept Pay Pal for international. According to him, Western Union Bid Pal will not help because they do not accept payments over $700 (true?) and they have problems accepting payments from the UK (true?) He says his only alternative will be to purchase a cashiers check for $25 and it will take five business days, and he asked me to reconsider allowing him to pay through Pay Pal.

 

I don't want to be a jerk. I don't want to offend customers. I also don't want to lose a sale. At the same time, I don't want to risk getting screwed.

 

I think Pay Pal's policy, and their inability to cover international shipments under their seller protection, has put me in an uncomfortable position. I still feel I need to allow the use of Pay Pal because otherwise I'm going to lose sales, or sell for far less than I could have otherwise.

 

The bidder, leon2arch, has 54 feedbacks, all positive, and has been a member of ebay since October 2003.

 

What would you do? Will I be putting myself at great risk if I go ahead and allow him to pay by Pay Pal?

 

I imagine I should word my auctions a little differently, perhaps in screaming large letters state that international orders cannot pay through Pay Pal. Really, I have no problems accepting Pay Pal from international people--I just don't want to become one of the horror stories I keep reading about.

 

Suggestions? Advice?

 

Charlie

[BassGMan]

Since his feedback is good, I would just let him pay with PayPal. I have sold and shipped about ten CGC graded books internationally, including most to the UK that were paid with PayPal and never had a problem. Maybe I was lucky. I say, just accept it but make no apologies, your listing was VERY clear and this guy did not read it thoroughly enough. However, I would tell the guy that you will wait a week after payment has been made through PayPal to make sure that his payment clears and that there is no problem with it. He can therefore pay the way he wants, but have to wait a bit. Good luck-----Sid

[uclapeterg]

I would say you can split the cost of the cashier check or eat it entirely or stand firm. How much was the book? Link?

 

Does getting a cashier check really cost $25???

[RushComics]

The link's at the top of my original post, "Strange Tales Auction."

 

Thanks,

Charlie

[Mushroom]

If you use bidpay for an auction in excess of $700 a way round it is to draw two bidpay cheques. I have done this on a number of occassions. Technically it is against the rules but I haven't been nailed yet.

[Dave_Hennen]

IDoes getting a cashier check really cost $25???

 

I think it's $15 or so at my US bank

 

Dave H

[Aces]

Offer to pay the $25 for his check.

 

Paypal cost 4% for international payments and for $1000 that's $40.

 

You'd be ahead!

[Deucedriver]

If I ever have a question about a buyer or seller, I look at the books they have previously bid on and won to see if anything looks questionable. I then look at the people the bidder won/sold the auctions from/to. Look at your bidder, he has won high dollar lots from sellers with high feedback (several in the hundreds and thousands). He has no negative feedback. If you are still concerned, I agree with the Aces - pay for the check.

 

Sean

[MK Ultra]

The fourmite that just got screwed by a paypal reversal sold to a seller with spotless feedback.

 

Maybe he could post you $1,000 worth of Haggis?

[texasknight]

If I ever have a question about a buyer or seller, I look at the books they have previously bid on and won to see if anything looks questionable. I then look at the people the bidder won/sold the auctions from/to. Look at your bidder, he has won high dollar lots from sellers with high feedback (several in the hundreds and thousands). He has no negative feedback. If you are still concerned, I agree with the Aces - pay for the check.

 

Sean

 

This is probably your best bet on this deal since he wants to use Paypal.

 

Either that, or go ahead and knock 25$ off the price of the total and advise him to get a cashiers check. Also make sure the cashiers check clears before shipping...

[uclapeterg]

For me, it's like $6.00 and a friend of mine can get them for free at his bank (cuz he has so much money in it I guess)

[RushComics]

 

Here are my concerns:

 

I have no problems whatsoever paying for the check. If he's legit, though, I don't want to offend him or put him to any hassle.

 

However, having checked out his feedback, and yes, I do see that he's bought some upper end books, here are my concerns:

 

He's only been on ebay since 10-03, about five months. Most of his auctions listed in feedback are since late January. That's about six weeks.

 

Now, I don't know how long it takes before a Pay Pal "chargeback" occurs, but six weeks seems a short period of time.

 

If he *is* legit, then I'm sorry for even thinking this way--but it's possible for even his earliest auctions to be chargebacks that haven't happened yet.

 

This is why I'm now leaning towards offering to pay for the cashiers check, as much as I do not want to offend him if he's legit (and in fact, if he's legit I especially don't want to offend him becaues I'd welcome his repeat business!)

 

Does anyone know, am I off base about my six weeks guess, as being "low" in safety from chargeback (in other words, still at risk)? That is, are past "chargeback" situations things that occur, say, hypothetically, within two weeks? Also, let's say a "chargeback" for fraud occurs--does ebay cancel the person's account?

 

I feel bad about it because he may well be perfectly honest, upstanding, respectable. But I don't know that, and am made frightened by the bad experiences others have had.

 

Am I being paranoid? Or in this case, should I have genuine concern?

 

Charlie

[joe_collector]

You are not being paranoid, and I'd seriously offer the "$25 off for check" before worrying further.

 

Sure the guy might be a scammer, or he might not, but for that money I'd stick to the auction listing and wouldn't be taking any chances.

[ImageMask]

If he's legit I don't see why he would have a problem if you offered up the 25 for the check.

I wouldn't. Now I don't know how overseas banks work but in the U.S.A if you have the cash in a account you get the cashier check then and there. The "5 business days" sounds off to me.

[Deucedriver]

I looked at you auction again.

 

I thought your auction description was pretty clear about payment, so I wouldn't worry about that. If you are paranoid (we all are for this stuff), I would just have him send certified funds, pay the difference and have piece of mind. I agree with imagemask - if he is legit he shouldn't have a problem with you paying the fee. Any arguing would start to raise suspicions.

 

Good luck,

 

Sean

[RushComics]

I just e-mailed him. I decided to go the extra-nice route, and offer him a $30 discount--$25 for the cashier's check and $5 for his troubles.

 

Here's the e-mail I wrote him:

 

Hi Leon,

 

I gave this a lot of thought, honestly, the last thing I want is an unhappy customer.

 

I'll tell you what: I'll deduct $30 from the cost of your auction: $25 for the cost of the cashier's check and an additional $5 for your troubles.

 

So your total $860.00 + $30.60 shipping/insurance = $890.60 - $30 discount. = $860.60

 

It's a shame that Pay Pal's policies don't allow sellers who sell internationally to be covered unter the Seller Protection Policy. I understand that you didn't see where I stated the requirement in my auction, and it really bothers me that Pay Pal's protection policies force me to make that a rule, but I know a number of other sellers who have had major problems with Pay Pal when not covered under the protection policy, sellers who have lost thousands of dollars due to PayPal chargebacks after the fact.

 

Some of them have stopped offering Pay Pal all together. I chose to offer Pay Pal only when I am covered under their protection policy. I really hope Pay Pal changes their policy, and allows confirmed international addresses to be covered under their policy, but until then I have no other choice. Sorry for the inconvenience, the problem I have is with Pay Pal's policies.

 

I hope you'll understand, and that you'll consider dealing with me in the future.

 

Thanks,

Charlie Versfelt

RushComics

[BassGMan]

Charles, you are too nice. You are doing a good job handling this but giving him an extra $5 for his troubles is like saying that you screwed up a little, or weren't clear. If anything, HE should be paying YOU for YOUR troubles due to his lack of clearly reading your ad. But hey, it's just 5 bucks. If anyone did anything wrong here it is him, although just an innocent oversight (hopefully). You did nothing wrong. ----Sid

[BassGMan]

As I was pulling my pizza (Boboli crust) out of the oven I remembered something similar to this. As I let the pizza cool I will write.

 

About four months ago I bought an ASM #1 (a VERY big purchase for me) in about Good + from a guy on Ebay with a Buy It Now for $1,000. I noticed that he took PayPal and POP!!! I hit the BIN button and it was mine. So, I was going to use my credit card to cover PayPal the next day. As I was on my way to making payment I THEN noticed his policy of accepting PayPal but NOT from credit cards. This policy was not even as clear as yours as it was ONLY mentioned in the payment and instructions box on the bottom of the listing and not in the listing description itself. HOWEVER, I damn well believed that I was the one that made the mistake as I did not read all the details of his listing before purchasing. I was too trigger happy. Problem: I did not have an extra $1,000 in cash to cover it but I knew it was my responsibility to cover ASAP. So I scrambled until I found one of those credit card checks. I was able to send him the credit card check in the mail which to him was just like receiving a personal check from me. So it worked out. Had I not come across one of those I would have taken a cash advance out of my credit card in order to pay. What I am trying to say is that it was my responsibility. Now that I think about it more, you are covering for this guy's irresponsibility. He should go down to the bank ASAP, pay the extra $25 for the check and overnight it to you after the five days it takes him in order for you to have it within ten days. At least that is what I would do. I just can't stand people who act irresponsibly and then try to get others to cover for them.

 

You are going above and beyond the call of duty as an Ebay dealer to accomodate this guy. Assuming that he is legit, I surely hope that he can see that. ----Sid

[uclapeterg]

 

 

Totally agree with JC. You are talking about a lot of money here.

 

You are not being paranoid, and I'd seriously offer the "$25 off for check" before worrying further.

 

Sure the guy might be a scammer, or he might not, but for that money I'd stick to the auction listing and wouldn't be taking any chances.

[uclapeterg]

 

 

Perfect letter. A little whimpy (j/k) I totally agree with you and have the same policy about international customers, too.

 

I just e-mailed him. I decided to go the extra-nice route, and offer him a $30 discount--$25 for the cashier's check and $5 for his troubles.

 

Here's the e-mail I wrote him:

 

Hi Leon,

 

I gave this a lot of thought, honestly, the last thing I want is an unhappy customer.

 

I'll tell you what: I'll deduct $30 from the cost of your auction: $25 for the cost of the cashier's check and an additional $5 for your troubles.

 

So your total $860.00 + $30.60 shipping/insurance = $890.60 - $30 discount. = $860.60

 

It's a shame that Pay Pal's policies don't allow sellers who sell internationally to be covered unter the Seller Protection Policy. I understand that you didn't see where I stated the requirement in my auction, and it really bothers me that Pay Pal's protection policies force me to make that a rule, but I know a number of other sellers who have had major problems with Pay Pal when not covered under the protection policy, sellers who have lost thousands of dollars due to PayPal chargebacks after the fact.

 

Some of them have stopped offering Pay Pal all together. I chose to offer Pay Pal only when I am covered under their protection policy. I really hope Pay Pal changes their policy, and allows confirmed international addresses to be covered under their policy, but until then I have no other choice. Sorry for the inconvenience, the problem I have is with Pay Pal's policies.

 

I hope you'll understand, and that you'll consider dealing with me in the future.

 

Thanks,

Charlie Versfelt

RushComics