Do you think there are certain books dealer driven????

[PUNYHUMAN]

Meaning Suspence # 3, Catman # 13, Punch # 12, Fantastic Comics # 3, ETC.or other examples or are they really rare & collector driven?

[Timely]

Well, if they are dealer driven, at least they aredriving the right ones. I doubt they are, after all, how many dealers have ANY of these books?

 

Timely

[PUNYHUMAN]

I agree with you on that ,but I've heard stories ,I don't know if there true ,so I don't want to make accusations, but I heard some dealers horde some of these books which could possibly control the market. Just a guess and a question. If you have a diffrent opinion I'd liked to hear it. Remember though this is a free market. As one dealer told me ,with no regulations. I'd like to hear all you guys' opinions. Thanks.

[goldust40]

That's a great question, which may have been dealt with on these boards before, although I don't remember when (link, anyone?).

 

Suspense 3 became noticed, and consequently popular, because it featured prominently in Gerber. Anyway, on a general level there is no question that higher echelon dealers have "made" certain books in the past, or raised their value by hyping their importance, scarcity, or great covers. Cap 74 and 75 would be possible examples of this.

 

In the long term, the laws of supply and demand, as well as fashion, come into play - plus diehard collectors will form their own opinions in the end as to the significance of a particular book. If it's a book such as a Fantastic 3, and it was originally dealer driven, then it scarcely matters as collectors would accept this sort of item as a break out in OS. In the end collectors would drive such a market.

 

It's much harder to hype G.A. and Atom Age books than S.A. and 1970s. Plenty of Silver and Bronze books have been dealer driven, or conversely been suppressed in terms of value/OS price to maximize profit - the more common the book, the easier it becomes to do this, especially if you're sitting on loads of 'em.

[Mephisto]

Well, if they are dealer driven, at least they aredriving the right ones. I doubt they are, after all, how many dealers have ANY of these books?

 

Timely

 

I meant to actually ask you about Suspense 3, Timley. I remember you saying you have seen several copies in person and the cover is even nicer. I wanted to know if the book is as rare as the Gerber indicated. I got the impression you have seen about half of all the copies out there. I saw Metro has a restored copy of Suspense 3...

[Red Hook]

OT- I liked the irony of Punyhuman, from Jersey, with Big Ben in his avatar, conversing with Goldust40, the guy from London with a band from Detroit in his avatar. Cool.

[FFB]

I heard about some dealer who tried that with Iron Man/Submariner #1, but all he got out of it was ridicule and derision.

 

I agree with you on that ,but I've heard stories ,I don't know if there true ,so I don't want to make accusations, but I heard some dealers horde some of these books which could possibly control the market. Just a guess and a question. If you have a diffrent opinion I'd liked to hear it. Remember though this is a free market. As one dealer told me ,with no regulations. I'd like to hear all you guys' opinions. Thanks.

[Timely]

Some collector years ago actually did get a count on the known copies, I forget the exact # but I think it was 17?!? I was told less than 50% are complete, many copies are missing 4 pages.

 

I wonder if that was a printing error on the publishers end that was caught. Perhaps many of the books were destroyed or sent back because of this problem!?! Speculation.

 

Timely

[PUNYHUMAN]

OT- Redhook, that avatar is from The Giant Behemoth "willis o'brien" one of my fave 50's films,even though Ray Harryhausen outdid him with Beast

from 20 Thousand Fanthoms,"KIller Movies"!!!!!!!

[Mephisto]

Some collector years ago actually did get a count on the known copies, I forget the exact # but I think it was 17?!? I was told less than 50% are complete, many copies are missing 4 pages.

 

I wonder if that was a printing error on the publishers end that was caught. Perhaps many of the books were destroyed or sent back because of this problem!?! Speculation.

 

Timely

 

Do you know the approximate percentage of the number of copies that have had resto done to them?

[PUNYHUMAN]

Boy , that's another topic of discussion,I heard some pages were glued in ,is that why some pages are missing?? Is this true?

[buttock]

Some collector years ago actually did get a count on the known copies, I forget the exact # but I think it was 17?!? I was told less than 50% are complete, many copies are missing 4 pages.

 

I wonder if that was a printing error on the publishers end that was caught. Perhaps many of the books were destroyed or sent back because of this problem!?! Speculation.

 

Timely

 

The missing pages are glued in. The glue deteriorated and the pages fell out over time (it's assumed). If there are only 17 copies, I've probably seen half of them in person at shows, and another fourth for sale in ads. There must be more than that.

 

As far as Fantastic 3, there's a strong rumor that a certain dealer wants to corner the market on these. Although the guy who has the Mile High has an even nicer copy as well. Or at least that was the case a while ago.

[Timely]

I do not know how many have been restored.

 

I also heard that some pages were glued into the book, seems like the publisher really messed up on the page count and had some serious production problems.

 

I hate to say it but Fishler knows more about this than I do.

 

Damn that was hard to type!

 

Timely

[PUNYHUMAN]

I take it you & Steve go way back!!

[ghoulaid]

My impression is many books have been "dealer driven" at least initially. I seem to remember the whole "Good Girl Art" fad was promoted by a dealer, perhaps Terry Stroud / David Alexander. Also, Market reports in Overstreet may tend to draw attention to certain books that get mentioned creating a temporary or lasting demand. The Mile High collection was obviously dealer driven but collectors came to accept it. Rumors can fuel demand. What started the whole Marvel Variant phase? Dealers or collectors?

 

When Gerbers Photo Journal was published, the really cool covers were no longer a mystery and certain books took off (Fantastic #3). The whole Buzzy #70 thing is collector driven right now. In the end though, collectors control what's in demand or not. Good question though.

 

I also love those old 1950's sci-fi, monster movies. Still looking to find a copy of Not of this Earth (Roger Corman version).

[Rip]

There are around 30 copies, with around half complete of Suspense 3.

There are a few less copies of Catman 13.

Also link....

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=215466&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

[lou_fine]

Definitely agree with you guys here that Suspense #3 is a highly desireable book with both it's extreme rarity and classic cover . I also believe this book had a bit of help here with a push by Metro several years back. The only thing about the cover for Suspense #3 is that I've always considered it to be a little bit derivative of the cover from Suspense Comics #1.

 

From my point of view Fantastic Comics #3 was definitely being hoarded by Fishler back in the mid 90's as he was attempting to buy up every copy (even low grade) that was coming into the market. Another book which he tried to hype was Terrific Comics #5 which he attempted to sell for around $6K when he managed to acquire a copy for around $500 - $600 back during the Overstreet Diamond opening. Don't think this one turn out so well since Terrific #5 doen't have the same following and demand as Suspense #3.

 

Bottom-line, I think the collectors drive the market over the long-term although the dealers may try to influence it from time to time. I guess the same thing happens with Modern books, except in this case, it's the publishers who are trying to influence the market.