How Do We Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure In The Marketplace?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Bur Roy, the GPA thing was a lousy idea

 

I think it was a great idea. Actually there were several that I thought were great and there was room to grow in the discussion.

 

The point is that instead the debate turned personal, and the discussion veered off course.

 

The discussion ended in personal opinions being made about me and my motives when all I wanted to do was have a discussion about the idea.

 

That seems to be happening here as well.

 

Well...at least you can take comfort in the fact that you're not the only one this happens to...

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

(snip) quoting fail

 

(snip) more quoting fail

 

You guys might want to learn that the quoting function on this board has a limit.

 

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

How about those who care ask, those who do not don't ask.

Why would we want it to be simple when we can FUBAR the whole situation? We should be our own government.

 

Well, some people think we need governance. Thank God they're looking out for my best interests because I'm incompetent and can't make decisions on my own.

 

I can't think of any situation that governance can help, it's not like the medical profession can benefit from governance

 

Are you comparing pressing to practicing medicine? I'm not sure what relevance that has.

 

Just trying to say that governance is not a bad thing, can be beneficial if applied correctly, and mandating proactive disclosure is hardly the evil that it seems to be claimed by some.

 

Well then if we're just making random comparisons, then let's look at how well governance worked in Russia in the 1920s & 1930s, Germany in the 1930-40s, Spain, France, Italy, etc.

 

I can make bad comparisons too.

 

You certainly can - France?

 

Ever hear of the French revolution? Happened in a place called Europe.

 

You might want to read a few books about it - it's called learning.

 

But...everyone knows you can't learn anything just by reading something.....

 

[Theagenes]

Boobs and history arguments.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

 

This is the exact wording of your poll:

 

"Should Marketplace sellers be expected to pro-actively disclose pressing in their threads?"

 

If your poll had said:

 

"Should Marketplace sellers be forced to pro-actively disclose pressing in their threads?"

 

would the results have been the same? Not a chance.

 

I was thinking about this very thing last night and I agree 100%. Wording has a huge effect on poll results.

[Jeffro.]

All I see again is the people with the same agenda trying to be dictators.

 

I ran a poll. People voted 'yes'.

 

I ran another poll regarding choices, this still being in progress.

 

I think you might need to look 'dictator' up in the dictionary.

 

With all due respect Nick, you have a history of this sort of stuff. Remember the Approved Sellers List idea? You have good ideas but you pursue them with all the zeal of a crusader going off to war and " em all if they disagree with me". That's what rankles some of us. It also smacks of what you want, ie your personal agenda. Am I wrong in thinking that? Is that unfair of me to think that way? Maybe, and I'm willing to take my lumps on that, but I'm not alone.

[Jeffro.]

balking

 

Please. Lets keep this reality based. The Mets wouldn't be scoring with Carlos Delgado in the batter's box.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

Boobs and history arguments.

 

 

 

Jeff, could you please scan & post into our Howard Days PM a CBCA membership form?

 

Thank you.

[Theagenes]

Absolutely. (thumbs u

 

 

[VintageComics]

Wording has a huge effect on poll results.

 

Like which name to vote for?

 

[Comicopolis]

 

(snip) quoting fail

 

(snip) more quoting fail

 

You guys might want to learn that the quoting function on this board has a limit.

 

(thumbs u

 

I know now - cheers RMA

[thirdgreenham]

 

The USA isn't a "democracy", either.

 

 

Hope you bought your silver, Dicey.

[Dale Roberts]

OK, we're done with the question of whether we want it...the results are unarguable...so the question is...by what method do we achieve it?

 

As this is entirely community-centric, the only democratic way to take this forward is to run another poll. There are four significantly different choices that I've been able to come up with and I want people to choose two of them...your ideal scenario, and one that you would accept.

 

They are...

 

(1) Request that Arch includes pro-active disclosure in the Marketplace rules with the standard actions/sanctions being the consequence of non-adherence.

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

(4) The maintenance of a 'Non-Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who make no effort to pro-actively disclose in their sales thread.

 

 

 

Nick,

Respectfully, I disagree with you and this idea. Let me make a few points for you and the board to think about.

 

#1. No major dealer (that I know of) proactively discloses which books have or have not been pressed. Richard Evans is the closest as he discloses which books have been pressed on the boards. No one else that I am aware of does so, and almost all major dealers (and some not so major) have books pressed. Yet almost every major dealer I know pro-actively discloses restoration. (If you refuse to purchase books on the boards from anyone who does not pro-actively disclose, I would suggest that you do the same in "real life", unfortunately, you will never again purchase a comic at a store, from a web-site, or at a convention).

 

#2. The fact that someone does or does not proactively disclose does not make them dishonest.

 

#3. This opens the playing field for the unethical to simply lie about which books have or have not been pressed and there is no way to enforce this and pressed books will still get into the hands of people who do care.

 

#4. All the disclosure in the world will never uncover those thousand upon thousand upon thousands of books that are already in collections all over the world which have been pressed, which no one knows about. This is the major sticking point to me. I once asked someone who would know how many books have been pressed in the last 30 years and he said I would never believe the number. Anyone who owns a significant collection which was purchased 2nd hand, probably already owns pressed books.

 

I am sure that there are other points I could make, but I will leave it with this for now.

 

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else. I will always pro-actively disclose any known restoration on anything I sell, and if I miss something, I will do my best to make it right.

 

I feel this is a completely ethical and honest way to conduct business. And isn't honesty and ethics what everyone really wants (aside from good books)? Let's not miss the forest for the trees.

 

And really....., isn't there something more important for Arch to be doing such as implementing a required return policy?

 

 

[fantastic_four]

#4. All the disclosure in the world will never uncover those thousand upon thousand upon thousands of books that are already in collections all over the world which have been pressed, which no one knows about. This is the major sticking point to me. I once asked someone who would know how many books have been pressed in the last 30 years and he said I would never believe the number. Anyone who owns a significant collection which was purchased 2nd hand, probably already owns pressed books.

Last I heard, Nick collects high-grade 9.x Silver Age Marvel comics, so there's no doubt he owns pressed books. Maybe he's stopped collecting them by now due to how much he hates pressing, but if he hasn't, I'm baffled. I haven't heard him talk about what he collects since all the pressing threads around here started to spiral out of control around 2004-2005.

[Dale Roberts]

#4. All the disclosure in the world will never uncover those thousand upon thousand upon thousands of books that are already in collections all over the world which have been pressed, which no one knows about. This is the major sticking point to me. I once asked someone who would know how many books have been pressed in the last 30 years and he said I would never believe the number. Anyone who owns a significant collection which was purchased 2nd hand, probably already owns pressed books.

Last I heard, Nick collects high-grade 9.x Silver Age Marvel comics, so there's no doubt he owns pressed books. Maybe he's stopped collecting them by now due to how much he hates pressing, but if he hasn't, I'm baffled. I haven't heard him talk about what he collects since all the pressing threads around here started to spiral out of control around 2004-2005.

 

I hope that is not the case, because I respect Nick, and I know that he indeed loves the books themselves.

[gaz973]

#4. All the disclosure in the world will never uncover those thousand upon thousand upon thousands of books that are already in collections all over the world which have been pressed, which no one knows about. This is the major sticking point to me. I once asked someone who would know how many books have been pressed in the last 30 years and he said I would never believe the number. Anyone who owns a significant collection which was purchased 2nd hand, probably already owns pressed books.

Last I heard, Nick collects high-grade 9.x Silver Age Marvel comics, so there's no doubt he owns pressed books. Maybe he's stopped collecting them by now due to how much he hates pressing, but if he hasn't, I'm baffled. I haven't heard him talk about what he collects since all the pressing threads around here started to spiral out of control around 2004-2005.

 

I hope that is not the case, because I respect Nick, and I know that he indeed loves the books themselves.

 

Nick sold off the majority of his collection.

[gaz973]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else. I will always pro-actively disclose any known restoration on anything I sell, and if I miss something, I will do my best to make it right.

 

 

Dale, out of curiosity and not casting stones, do you not proactively disclose pressed books on the boards because of the extra effort involved, because of possible difference in success of sales or a different reason?

[bdera303-migration]

OK, we're done with the question of whether we want it...the results are unarguable...so the question is...by what method do we achieve it?

 

As this is entirely community-centric, the only democratic way to take this forward is to run another poll. There are four significantly different choices that I've been able to come up with and I want people to choose two of them...your ideal scenario, and one that you would accept.

 

They are...

 

(1) Request that Arch includes pro-active disclosure in the Marketplace rules with the standard actions/sanctions being the consequence of non-adherence.

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

(4) The maintenance of a 'Non-Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who make no effort to pro-actively disclose in their sales thread.

 

 

 

Regardless if you agree or disagree with pressing, the fact of matter is CGC doesn't consider it restoration. If you buy, send in or patronize CGC comics it's a chance that you are taking.

[DrWatson]

#4. All the disclosure in the world will never uncover those thousand upon thousand upon thousands of books that are already in collections all over the world which have been pressed, which no one knows about. This is the major sticking point to me. I once asked someone who would know how many books have been pressed in the last 30 years and he said I would never believe the number. Anyone who owns a significant collection which was purchased 2nd hand, probably already owns pressed books.

Last I heard, Nick collects high-grade 9.x Silver Age Marvel comics, so there's no doubt he owns pressed books. Maybe he's stopped collecting them by now due to how much he hates pressing, but if he hasn't, I'm baffled. I haven't heard him talk about what he collects since all the pressing threads around here started to spiral out of control around 2004-2005.

 

I hope that is not the case, because I respect Nick, and I know that he indeed loves the books themselves.

 

Nick sold off the majority of his collection.

I bought his Northland X-Men. He made me promise not to press them. *

 

 

*I'm lying. He made me promise no such thing.

[gaz973]

OK, we're done with the question of whether we want it...the results are unarguable...so the question is...by what method do we achieve it?

 

As this is entirely community-centric, the only democratic way to take this forward is to run another poll. There are four significantly different choices that I've been able to come up with and I want people to choose two of them...your ideal scenario, and one that you would accept.

 

They are...

 

(1) Request that Arch includes pro-active disclosure in the Marketplace rules with the standard actions/sanctions being the consequence of non-adherence.

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

(4) The maintenance of a 'Non-Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who make no effort to pro-actively disclose in their sales thread.

 

 

 

Regardless if you agree or disagree with pressing, the fact of matter is CGC doesn't consider it restoration. If you buy, send in or patronize CGC comics it's a chance that you are taking.

 

I still don't see why that's an argument against telling potential buyers what you know about a book.