How Do We Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure In The Marketplace?

[GACollectibles]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

 

See! It was a setup!

 

 

And by setup I mean that's a self fulfilling prophecy, word the thread title to not accurately reflect your purpose and it fits your needs. I don't read all the pressing related threads because, well, they are repetitive and non-productive. I occasionally step in one, for sure. But no one is at fault for not recognizing what your thread was asking for, nor does it automatically mean I am against disclosure(read my previous posts, or better yet, watch my threads). I am, however, interested in following a process for suggesting new guidelines for the Marketplace, and claiming you have board majority from a buried poll isn't really an open process.

[towards2112]

all the "pole" and "list" bull sheitt.

Lead by example. If you've never been a leader, just follow the sheep.

If you are selling, and the book is pressed, and you agree that it

should be disclosed,, list it as such.

If you don't give a flying $5 fig, then move on.

Not much "enlightened" thinking going on in a thread like this these days.

Looks just like a pising contest to me.....

[Flaming_Telepath]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

 

See! It was a setup!

 

 

And by setup I mean that's a self fulfilling prophecy, word the thread title to not accurately reflect your purpose and it fits your needs. I don't read all the pressing related threads because, well, they are repetitive and non-productive. I occasionally step in one, for sure. But no one is at fault for not recognizing what your thread was asking for, nor does it automatically mean I am against disclosure(read my previous posts, or better yet, watch my threads). I am, however, interested in following a process for suggesting new guidelines for the Marketplace, and claiming you have board majority from a buried poll isn't really an open process.

 

Andrew, you are for disclosure but didn't read the poll.

 

You will have a counter-part who is against disclosure who also didn't read the poll for the same reasons.

 

I don't think the percentages would have differed greatly if everybody had taken part. It would take a huge sea-change to shift that level of majority.

[drewincanada]

Nick,

 

I made it through most of the original thread, and so far I've read the first 5 pages of this thread... If this has been discussed already, I may have missed it (possibly when I blacked out at 3:45 AM after reading 80 pages of "immovable object" Rino vs "irresistible force" F-T)

 

I posted this very early in the original thread, but didn't see a response. In your breakdown of possible statements one could make in a sales thread, I wonder why you've excluded the option of saying "I know that this book has NOT been pressed." If it's an OO book, the seller would know if it hadn't been pressed, and it's useful information.

 

1. I know that this book has been pressed.

2. I know that it has NOT been pressed.

3. I have no idea whether or not it has been pressed.

[Flaming_Telepath]

And by setup I mean that's a self fulfilling prophecy, word the thread title to not accurately reflect your purpose and it fits your needs.

 

And as for this...come on, man!

 

Disclosure - Yes or No?

 

That was the title and I expressly used that to take every bit of emotion or bias out of it.

[GACollectibles]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

 

See! It was a setup!

 

 

And by setup I mean that's a self fulfilling prophecy, word the thread title to not accurately reflect your purpose and it fits your needs. I don't read all the pressing related threads because, well, they are repetitive and non-productive. I occasionally step in one, for sure. But no one is at fault for not recognizing what your thread was asking for, nor does it automatically mean I am against disclosure(read my previous posts, or better yet, watch my threads). I am, however, interested in following a process for suggesting new guidelines for the Marketplace, and claiming you have board majority from a buried poll isn't really an open process.

 

Andrew, you are for disclosure but didn't read the poll.

 

You will have a counter-part who is against disclosure who also didn't read the poll for the same reasons.

 

I don't think the percentages would have differed greatly if everybody had taken part. It would take a huge sea-change to shift that level of majority.

 

I already said the results may be the same, but there are other reasons people might not have read the thread, including it having no relevance to the Marketplace Guidelines. You can't decide for them, that's all I'm saying.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Nick,

 

I made it through most of the original thread, and so far I've read the first 5 pages of this thread... If this has been discussed already, I may have missed it (possibly when I blacked out at 3:45 AM after reading 80 pages of "immovable object" Rino vs "irresistible force" F-T)

 

I posted this very early in the original thread, but didn't see a response. In your breakdown of possible statements one could make in a sales thread, I wonder why you've excluded the option of saying "I know that this book has NOT been pressed." If it's an OO book, the seller would know if it hadn't been pressed, and it's useful information.

 

1. I know that this book has been pressed.

2. I know that it has NOT been pressed.

3. I have no idea whether or not it has been pressed.

 

I agree, Andrew, and I personally will use it when I think it appropriate.

 

But a number of people raised the 'but what if the old man who owned the collection also had a dusty old press in his garage and just decided to see if he could flatten out a few of his books back in the 60s' argument, so we binned that in the face of ridiculousness.

[GACollectibles]

And by setup I mean that's a self fulfilling prophecy, word the thread title to not accurately reflect your purpose and it fits your needs.

 

And as for this...come on, man!

 

Disclosure - Yes or No?

 

That was the title and I expressly used that to take every bit of emotion or bias out of it.

 

Again, that indicates a discussion, no end purpose. And if a pressing discussion with a poll, even worse.

[seanfingh]

 

If nothing else, this an interesting sociological exercise. And it got me posting in a pressing thread, which I would've given heavy odds against.

[drewincanada]

Nick,

 

I made it through most of the original thread, and so far I've read the first 5 pages of this thread... If this has been discussed already, I may have missed it (possibly when I blacked out at 3:45 AM after reading 80 pages of "immovable object" Rino vs "irresistible force" F-T)

 

I posted this very early in the original thread, but didn't see a response. In your breakdown of possible statements one could make in a sales thread, I wonder why you've excluded the option of saying "I know that this book has NOT been pressed." If it's an OO book, the seller would know if it hadn't been pressed, and it's useful information.

 

1. I know that this book has been pressed.

2. I know that it has NOT been pressed.

3. I have no idea whether or not it has been pressed.

 

I agree, Andrew, and I personally will use it when I think it appropriate.

 

But a number of people raised the 'but what if the old man who owned the collection also had a dusty old press in his garage and just decided to see if he could flatten out a few of his books back in the 60s' argument, so we binned that in the face of ridiculousness.

 

Well, by OO, I meant that the SELLER is the original owner. Not that he bought it from an original owner. In which case, it's perfectly viable.

[Thomas Nielsen]

I voted #1 only but i don't think sellers should be forced to disclose but it could be like someone else posted, highly encouraged.

 

Please note: Proactive disclosure is a marketplace community standard. Consider your buyer's have asked for full disclosure by shopping here.

I think the sellers that don't disclose will start to do so when/if they lose enough business in the marketplace...

[GACollectibles]

If nothing else, this an interesting sociological exercise. And it got me posting in a pressing thread, which I would've given heavy odds against.

 

Let's grab a beer and go harass Chris in my thread about not getting a sketch cover.

[rza808]

Should you do this you are now restricting the sales threads to those who press and actively disclose and those who do not press and can vouch for the book.

 

What happens to those who do not press and do not know if a book is pressed? What do they disclose? Are they now suspect simply because they do not have an answer?

 

We all saw what happened to Steve B's sales thread when he said the books "may or may not have been pressed".

 

 

If you know, you say.

 

If you don't know, you say you don't know.

 

Ok....so I don't know. Suspicion is now levied against me for simply not knowing. The question of pressing has been deliberately inserted into my sales thread. This is completely aside from the fact that I am innocent in all ways since I truly have no idea if the book has been pressed. I am now guilty from merely having the term associated with the books in my thread. Its a level of suspicion that is not warranted except to appease those who feel pressing is restoration.

 

I have always said I dont believe pressing is restoration nor do I care about pressing.

 

Its a backhanded way to push the anti presser agenda in the marketplace.

 

You guys do what you want to do but I have a bad feeling about this.

As do I. I will not vote on this. I will disclose if I sell but this movement is a bit one sided it seems. Honesty is important but you can't force it. Has this even been approved by whoever controls the boards?

[NewWorldOrder]

My stance,

 

CGC or the Mods enforcing mandatory disclosure on Pressing is 100% a walking contradiction on what CGC the company has in their own grading guidelines about Pressing. You can't have one part of CGC telling the people they are mandated to disclose pressing here on the boards when CGC itself does not notate it what so ever.

 

So this alone proves this whole idea a waste of time as if the CGC Mods made this a rule then CGC itself would have to revamp their whole grading standards, hence zero chance.

Proactive disclose is a good thing when there is something of interest to actually say, however making people in every sales threads state on every book or a blanket statement pertaining to a book being pressed or not is just ridiculous. If this was a NOD chat board then of course all these proposed rules would make more sense, but not on a CGC based chat board where pressing is not considered restoration.

 

Catching someone who has sold Pressed books w/o disclosing it is very hard to do and can be a witch hunt of hearsay. Besides seeing someone buy a book on the boards and reselling back on the boards with a much different look to the book is really the only way I can see it. Even then it can't be proven all the time with out reasonable doubt.

 

If a seller buy books at cons, eBay, or wherever they find them and then presses them to ultimately try to sell the books on the boards then how can anyone actually prove the seller is selling pressed books? They can't is the answer unless the person who pressed the books spilled the beans then there is a customer/client violation obviously.

 

A lot of people who try sign up on the boards for the first time actually have never heard of this idea of pressing, so if they try to sell on the boards for the first time they will be bombed with people enforcing this non-sense rule with the poor guy getting ticked off about being yelled at for no good reason.

 

There is no point in making this absurd stance for everyone on non-pressed books to have to disclose the book has not been pressed. R u kidding me?

 

Do I think it is 100% wrong if a potential buyer asks the seller if the book was pressed and they answer no when in fact the book has been pressed. Yes that is completely immoral and wrong. That being said I don't agree with making people have to disclose if they don't want to because many people consider pressing not a form of restoration hence feel there is nothing to disclose. Again not saying on the back end if someone asks you about cause a lie is a lie in life no matter what, but on the front end I feel it's a personal choice. Buyers are also given the human trait of talking so you can also open your mouth and ask if the book was pressed as well.

 

Maybe because I have no faith in people in general is the reason why I would never leave anything up to chance with out me knowing all the answers before giving someone my money. So when in doubt open your freakin mouth and ask the questions that are bothering you for goodness sakes.

 

What happens when people on the boards proactively disclose a certain book is pressed then when it doesn't sell on the boards they sell it on eBay, Heritage, CL, or CC where they seem not remember to disclose the books has been pressed. I can give you a couple examples right now.

 

All I see again is the people with the same agenda trying to be dictators.

 

I think it's great if a seller wants to proactively disclose on books being pressed. However, in no mandated way can it or should it ever be an enforced contradictive rule here on the boards.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

My stance

Was the final recommendation the forum mods enforcing a rule?

 

I thought earlier today when I was caught up it was the community expecting certain action on the part of sellers which is only enforceable by buyers not purchasing if pressing is not revealed.

[Flaming_Telepath]

So this alone proves this whole idea a waste of time as if the CGC Mods made this a rule then CGC itself would have to revamp their whole grading standards, hence zero chance.

 

Simply not true. Actually, worse than that...deliberately misleading and designed to create a panic.

 

But you go! (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

If nothing else, this an interesting sociological exercise.

 

It almost made me an absolutist for a day.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

My stance

Was the final recommendation the forum mods enforcing a rule?

 

I thought earlier today when I was caught up it was the community expecting certain action on the part of sellers which is only enforceable by buyers not purchasing if pressing is not revealed.

 

Not at all, but that is what some people want, which is just dumb.

 

I think if someone wants to make a proactive disclose list of sellers who disclose about pressing that is fine with me. (thumbs u

 

I just can't fathom the other kind of list on sellers who might be selling pressed books but don't disclose it. It's great if people want to disclose a book has been pressed, but in no way should a witch hunt if they don't unless when asked they lie about it etc...

[Flaming_Telepath]

All I see again is the people with the same agenda trying to be dictators.

 

I ran a poll. People voted 'yes'.

 

I ran another poll regarding choices, this still being in progress.

 

I think you might need to look 'dictator' up in the dictionary.

[NewWorldOrder]

So this alone proves this whole idea a waste of time as if the CGC Mods made this a rule then CGC itself would have to revamp their whole grading standards, hence zero chance.

 

Simply not true. Actually, worse than that...deliberately misleading and designed to create a panic.

 

But you go! (thumbs u

 

Are you not seeing the obvious contraction here?

 

You can't have the company who does not note or view pressing as restoration make people on their very own chat boards make it a mandatory form of disclosure.

 

It makes no sense what so ever.