Sketch Covers...A good thing or a negative nancy?

[DennisRodmanofSS]

Hello all....

 

First let me say this...I LOVE sketch covers...I could talk to you all about all the reasons I enjoy collecting them, but that could take all day...

 

Instead, I wanted to throw something out there....are these blank covers ultimately a good thing for the hobby of collecting original sketches?

 

As some of you have seen or heard, some artists are not big fans of these sketch covers...I know at the NYCC, Leinil Yu at first refused to do any sketches on the covers, claiming that they will be "flipped" on Ebay. As many of you know, once an artist begins thinking like that, it wont be long before no sketching at all at shows....

 

I also have seen some artist have sketch lists with prices for what kind of sketch you want, then when someone whips out a blank, the artist will tell you for a sketch on that, its more or a flat out "no."

 

Walter Simonson for years has always sketches for free...for the last year or so, sketching for him has been touch and go and one of the reasons he told me personally at the NYCC last year was the way he sees his sketch covers sell on Ebay. He told me when he did his free sketches in the past, he told me it would never bother him when he saw a sketch sell for 20 or 30 bucks...but when the sketch cover craze took hold, and he saw his sketches selling for over 100, then he told me he became "grumpy" about it....Walt...to his credit, still sketches most of the time, usually for the first ten people at his line on any given day and for charity...but there have been shows here and there where he simply says "no." It seems that the selling of sketches from shows has been going on for as long as the hobby has been around, but with the blanks....it has gone to a higher level...

 

Why do sketch covers sell for more? I guess some people feel confident that what they are getting is legit, if the book gets a high grade...it could protect the investment, The blank cover craze has opened up a new market for collectors....people that enjoy collecting CGC SS books, knowing that the autograph is real, ect...to know collecting sketches that are real...I think the CGC factor promotes the sketches more on Ebay, makes it more of a collector's item....

 

I think that the blank cover trend has brought SO many more people to the hobby of collecting sketches...I think its hard to really be upset with this trend, I think artists like Herb Trimpe and Billy Tan must love the sketch covers, when ever I see these guys at shows, they are always sketching on blanks...I think more artist find themselves with much more money in their pocket because of the sketch covers....for most artist however, taking a sketch list at shows do not affect their income much as real Marvel DC work pay the bills, and only do shows and sketches for fans...hence seeing these sketch covers on Ebay may kill their buzz to do more at shows.....

 

Now...I think everyone here on these fine boards who collect sketch covers has sold some on Ebay, myself included...sometimes for a profit, sometimes at a loss......I am not sure if some fans think that the sketch cover guys are ruining the hobby...I would hope not, I know myself and many others here LOVE the hobby....

 

Thoughts??

 

 

[MedicAR]

I have been worried about artists shying away from doing sketches. In the precious few times I have sold sketches, I've done so privately. I have actively purchased on eBay since I first became interested in sketch covers. The trouble is that I'm playing both sides. Just as I will rarely part with a sketch, I will also run up the prices on eBay, so I'm not sure I can criticize anyone.

 

I personally love the sketches and CGC certification. I get nice work from artists whose work I admire and enjoy. I just don't know where the middle ground is on this. I don't want the artists to feel taken advantage of but I also don't want to lose the opportunity to obtain relatively cheap items from some great artists ant to know that they are genuine.

[seanfingh]

 

Thoughts??

 

 

Excellent post. Really excellent post. This is something I have been thinking about a ton over the last three years. I personally have never sold a sketch, but I have bought a couple off ebay (including a Sienkiewicz Elektra that i think was from you, Cosimo.) I also aggressively went after another, the colored Hellboy signed by Guillermo Del Toro, the artist and I think Mignola. That might have been yours, too.

 

I love sketch covers because i love OA, and I am never going to allocate the type of $$ to this hobby that you need to have to play in the published OA market. I also don't like it because once it is a portfolio, you have to get it out to enjoy it. I love the sketch covers and the way that they present in Yellow slabs.

 

My only opinion is that we are just going to have to wait and see. Anything that is worth $ is subject to being sold, and it is easy for these artists to track their work. It is not just the $ side that causes problems, but also people that white out personalizations to sell books and other shady dealings with creators. I remain hopeful that we will continue to be able to get sketch covers, but I suppose eventually, many creators may stop. I for one, am going to continue to work with creators to get as many high quality examples as I can, while the getting is still good.

[Mayor006]

I think you are going to see that it is a blessing for some and a curse for others. You yourself mentioned artists that you see at every convention that are just churning these things out whereas others flat out say no.

 

I have only bought one sketch cover off of ebay ever but it was directly from the artist and I've always enjoyed his work and only been able to meet with him in person on one occasion so in this case ebay was a helpful tool as it is meant to be.

 

A lot of it is simple economics and if certain artists want to be the ones that make the money off the system they should put their own sketch covers on ebay as well. I think in the case of Simonson it is more that he enjoys sketching for people and doesn't like the fact that those people he spent time with and freely giving of his time are just really there to turn a buck. I don't blame him a bit and would love to have a Beta Ray Bill any day of the week. Honestly, I've just never thought to look for one on Ebay. If he were to flood the market with a bunch of them the price would come down (or he would make a ton of money off of someone hording). Supply and demand.

 

I think the mixed response may be why you really haven't seen more sketch covers. We are all dying for the real Amazing Spider Man one, a Wonder Woman would sell like hotcakes, and I can think of a few more that would be quick sales as well.

 

With all that being said just respect the wishes of the artist, if you really want something from that particular person does it really matter if it is a sketch cover? I love them too and I'm just now getting started on this phenomenon but I don't think they will replace my love for original pages or original art.

 

Wow. That was a lot. I now have a headache.

[DennisRodmanofSS]

Well.....I think you bring up a valid point....some artist DO sell sketch covers on Ebay....

 

I have seen artists like Steve Epting, Joe Michael Linser and Dave Sim do it....I know for a fact that artist like Epting do it almost as an experiment to see how much to charge for sketching on blanks at shows....

 

But also...we have to see how the Signature Series Yellow plays into the mix...I think we can all agree that when a book is slabbed, you can demand much more for it simply than a raw sketch....which leads back to the same issue...when an artist sees a CGC SS Fallen Son sell on Ebay as opposed to a piece of paper or a sketch book that is NOT slabbed.....that could raise awareness for all artists......

[Cassandra-migration]

I think more artist find themselves with much more money in their pocket because of the sketch covers....for most artist however, taking a sketch list at shows do not affect their income much as real Marvel DC work pay the bills, and only do shows and sketches for fans...hence seeing these sketch covers on Ebay may kill their buzz to do more at shows.....

I kinda agree with this but I don't think you understand how much an artist can make at a show, yes they're doing it for the fans but even an artist has bills to pay. Yes Marvel and DC help pay the bills and that would be their primary income but let's breakdown one average show:

If you're an awesome artist you could be getting between $70 and $100 for your sketches, you'll most likely be able to do 15 - 20 at a show which becomes between $1050 and $2000 on average and that's not including the sales of prints, sketch books and other merchandise that the artist provides. Sure you have set-up costs for these things and table rental is usually about $200 if you studio doesn't provide one for you but as you can see as an artist attending a Convention things can become quite lucrative.

Many artists help make a living off Convention-hopping.

 

I also assume that not just eBay scalping is a reason many artists want to draw on sketch covers, if an artist hasn't worked on one before they may be hesitant to try a new medium; especially for someone at a show where if they screw up it's not like they can just grab another piece of paper to start drawing on.

The paper on sketch covers can also be a little different than what a lot of people are used to.

[Mayor006]

Well.....I think you bring up a valid point....some artist DO sell sketch covers on Ebay....

 

I have seen artists like Steve Epting, Joe Michael Linser and Dave Sim do it....I know for a fact that artist like Epting do it almost as an experiment to see how much to charge for sketching on blanks at shows....

 

But also...we have to see how the Signature Series Yellow plays into the mix...I think we can all agree that when a book is slabbed, you can demand much more for it simply than a raw sketch....which leads back to the same issue...when an artist sees a CGC SS Fallen Son sell on Ebay as opposed to a piece of paper or a sketch book that is NOT slabbed.....that could raise awareness for all artists......

 

Which actually leads me to something I have often wondered. When CGC is on location, I would think an artist could simply do a sketch, bring it to the CGC table, sign it in front of them and send it off for CGC SS and when they get it back they could sell them on ebay just as easily. I don't know if a lot of them just haven't tried it or if I'm missing something.

[rtecbot]

Seen some artists actualy have sketch slabs on their table for sale. Saves time on waiting, but you have a set to choose from

[Mayor006]

if an artist hasn't worked on one before they may be hesitant to try a new medium; especially for someone at a show where if they screw up it's not like they can just grab another piece of paper to start drawing on.

The paper on sketch covers can also be a little different than what a lot of people are used to.

 

This I have seen in person. I asked Eric Basaldua (Ebas) to do a Secret Invasion sketch cover for me. The first variants were not the easiest to sketch on and he was not overly pleased at first with the way the cover was taking ink. In the end it came out gorgeous but the next time I saw him he really didn't want to draw on one again.

[DennisRodmanofSS]

I think Cassandra brings up some good points...I do agree...there are some artists who really depend on income from shows....but then you have to look at artist like Steve McNiven...he was doing, I believe, 40 dollar head shots at NY...I mean, if this guy wanted 300 bucks, he would do something else, a private commission, anything....he does stuff like to give the fans something and put his name out....but seeing sketch covers on Ebay....for artists like him...that will put a stop to it real soon...

[Mayor006]

Agreed. It will either put a stop to it all together or they will jack the prices up which in turn will jack up the ebay prices and then your typical fan is out of luck. Guess what, that's me. I can't keep up with the prices of a lot of this stuff already.

[asteroid-comix]

All the more reason to work with our "board" artists to get your sketches.

[Mac Man]

Like Doug, I rarely sell my sketches; in fact, I've only ever sold one

 

But you're correct--for some artists, they will no doubt feel taken advantage of when they see sketches they've done sold on eBay for far more than they charged--especially if they recall the person's "enthusiasm" for the sketch upon initially receiving it. Others realize that situations come up and/or people's interests change... which may be why their prices are higher to begin with.

 

I think as long as people play on the up and up, then you can't go wrong.

[Joel Elad]

Lots of great points in this thread... I have been a lover of sketch covers ever since the early 90's. I mean, I don't have the collection that Delvie has, but I've probably gotten over 200-300 sketch covers done in the 90's, before CGC was around. (I'm an online retailer, and would give away sketch covers every year on my anniversary to my customers.)

 

I like the sketch covers not only for their portability, but because I have a real bad tendency to lose stuff. And the mere thought of getting a sketchbook, getting tons of awesome sketches, and then losing that sketchbook when I get one of the final sketches, yeah, just the thought of that makes me sick. I get a sketch cover, I put it away...

 

From what I've seen, the first big "jump" in sketch prices came when eBay got popular. Whether it was non-CGC'ed blank covers or pieces of paper, artists really didn't want to see their work (which they gave for free) go for big cash. They charged, and prices went up for quality sketches. I guess the 2nd big jump is with artists who see that a CGC SS sketch can go for more than their sketch rate.

 

My goal is to get the artist to draw their own sketches, get them CGC'ed and sell them themselves. I even donated three blanks and all the grading costs to a popular illustrator at a show a few months back, and I hope he'll drop them off at CGC or mail them in. (I offered it as a thank you for a sketch and a ton of sigs he did for me) I'm trying it with a few other artists, and I'm hoping to offer some sketch opportunities like the ones offered on the board this past year.

 

It's all about education and making sure the artist gets a real taste of the potential. That said, if I make an investment of traveling to a convention, buying a blank cover comic, paying for the sketch, getting it graded, and posting it for sale, I'm unapologetic if I make a profit on my investment. Now, if the sketch goes for WAY over what I paid the artist, I compensate the artist the next time I see them as a thank you. But let's face it. Most comic book retailers in America get their new comics for about 50% of cover price when they order them from Diamond. Are they thieves for selling these comics to the public for cover price? After all, these retailers didn't write, draw, ink, color, or print these comics...

 

Don't mind me, I'm just a little sensitive. I know that I've helped people who couldn't afford to go to a show get the sketch or signed book they wanted. Now I gotta go keep sorting and pricing my books for the Long Beach show this week. Hmm, I should make the time to scan all the raw sketches I've gotten and still have..

[DennisRodmanofSS]

Speaking of Long Beach...please Joel, put in a call to Kris..promise...its got NOTHING to do with sketch covers!

[spideyfan88]

I think this is a great thread and really well written i just find it extremely ironic that Cosimo created it....

[seanfingh]

I think this is a great thread and really well written i just find it extremely ironic that Cosimo created it....

 

+1

[GoldenGuardian]

I think this is a great thread and really well written i just find it extremely ironic that Cosimo created it....

 

+1

 

2+

 

[spideyfan88]

But I don't know its not black and white I think its more the person the artist might not like than sketch covers in general or even the mood their in at that time. Its a mix of everything, I remember when i first joined the boards Dan was telling me how Van Sciver hated sketch covers and now he draws so many its insane.

Also when it comes down to it you can pay a lot of artists to like sketch covers

[gooch]

well I can tell you from Atlanta and at NYCC Olivier Coipel hates drawing on these. Not because of the flipping but he just hates the quality of it. I've been meaning to get my first one done but it seems that he might be doing them in the future.