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Trimmed books...............

Started by ImageMask,

33 posts in this topic

nearmint

nearmint

Posted
Posted
As long as the micro trim being alluded to could improve the grades of books 9.2-9.4 and higher there would be interest. Too much easy money and too many crooks in collectibles.

 

If he was alluding to microtrims, as far as I've been able to tell, you can get those past CGC right now if they're done well. Every time I see a new epic pressing thread I wonder why people don't flip about this more than pressing, seems worse to me.

 

Say more. How are you able to tell?

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Bruce1971

Bruce1971

Posted
Posted
As long as the micro trim being alluded to could improve the grades of books 9.2-9.4 and higher there would be interest. Too much easy money and too many crooks in collectibles.

 

After what happened with Ewert? Who wants to risk having that scarlet letter attached to them?

 

Who said it has to be a big name dealer? Could be greedy collectors. Or have a friend send the books in for you, pay a bit more to get them graded, but then the stigma is not on you. I am sure smart crooks can easily find a way around being fingered.

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
So if one had a service that allows for trimmed books to pass as blue would there be interest? Much like pressing; if you can't detect it, it didn't happen.

 

Nothing added, can't be detected? I see dollar signs in Borock's eyes...

 

lol Your shill is showing . . .

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nearmint

nearmint

Posted
Posted
As long as the micro trim being alluded to could improve the grades of books 9.2-9.4 and higher there would be interest. Too much easy money and too many crooks in collectibles.

 

After what happened with Ewert? Who wants to risk having that scarlet letter attached to them?

 

Who said it has to be a big name dealer? Could be greedy collectors. Or have a friend send the books in for you, pay a bit more to get them graded, but then the stigma is not on you. I am sure smart crooks can easily find a way around being fingered.

 

I just don't get how it would work. This hypothetical business couldn't exactly advertise that they microtrim in a manner that CGC can't spot, so it would have to be word-of-mouth. And since trimming is despised by so many, CGC would be aware of this new business within days of the first whispers.

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Bruce1971

Bruce1971

Posted
Posted
As long as the micro trim being alluded to could improve the grades of books 9.2-9.4 and higher there would be interest. Too much easy money and too many crooks in collectibles.

 

After what happened with Ewert? Who wants to risk having that scarlet letter attached to them?

 

Who said it has to be a big name dealer? Could be greedy collectors. Or have a friend send the books in for you, pay a bit more to get them graded, but then the stigma is not on you. I am sure smart crooks can easily find a way around being fingered.

 

I just don't get how it would work. This hypothetical business couldn't exactly advertise that they microtrim in a manner that CGC can't spot, so it would have to be word-of-mouth. And since trimming is despised by so many, CGC would be aware of this new business within days of the first whispers.

 

Aware and able to accurately detect are completely different, look at pressing. Besides, you are going outside the context of the original question. It was stated the trimming couldn't be detected. My answer was to that specific question. Adding in other factors changes the question and will of course change answers.

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nearmint

nearmint

Posted
Posted
As long as the micro trim being alluded to could improve the grades of books 9.2-9.4 and higher there would be interest. Too much easy money and too many crooks in collectibles.

 

After what happened with Ewert? Who wants to risk having that scarlet letter attached to them?

 

Who said it has to be a big name dealer? Could be greedy collectors. Or have a friend send the books in for you, pay a bit more to get them graded, but then the stigma is not on you. I am sure smart crooks can easily find a way around being fingered.

 

I just don't get how it would work. This hypothetical business couldn't exactly advertise that they microtrim in a manner that CGC can't spot, so it would have to be word-of-mouth. And since trimming is despised by so many, CGC would be aware of this new business within days of the first whispers.

 

Aware and able to accurately detect are completely different, look at pressing. Besides, you are going outside the context of the original question. It was stated the trimming couldn't be detected. My answer was to that specific question. Adding in other factors changes the question and will of course change answers.

 

CGC couldn't initially detect Ewert's trimming either. I don't know why any potential customer of this hypothetical business would think that the same series of events wouldn't occur again.

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sakaridis

sakaridis

Posted
Posted
Guys, you're missing the point here. He didn't ask "would you be interested in it?", but "would there be interest?"

 

And to that, I'm afraid, the answer is probably "yes", as much as we'd like to pretend otherwise. :sorry:

 

No.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I guess you have much more faith in humans than I do. (shrug)

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
As long as the micro trim being alluded to could improve the grades of books 9.2-9.4 and higher there would be interest. Too much easy money and too many crooks in collectibles.

 

If he was alluding to microtrims, as far as I've been able to tell, you can get those past CGC right now if they're done well. Every time I see a new epic pressing thread I wonder why people don't flip about this more than pressing, seems worse to me.

 

Say more. How are you able to tell?

 

My understanding of trimming detection is that there are two major techniques--look at the pattern of the edge cuts to see if they're inconsistent with the way the trimming machines cut paper at the press, and look at the edges to see if they're a different color than the interior pages with the idea that if the interior has yellowed or browned but the edges are whiter, then they've been trimmed off to expose the lesser-degraded inside of the paper. An effective microtrim is extremely subtle and uses the same kind of cut the slicers at the plant did and leaves the interior and edges with the same color. If anyone knows of other methods, please share. I suspect that the relationship of interior pages to the cover is also useful, but I haven't figured out how that could be used for an absolute determination of trimming, just circumstantial evidence. (shrug)

 

The Batman #11 and other books submitted by the same person that everyone went nuts over five or six years ago had a technique done to it CGC hadn't noticed before--they artificially colored the edges following the trim. I seem to remember Borock saying they were able to detect it after having had it brought to their attention, and my best guess is that the discoloration of the edges wasn't perfect. Discolored edges are a moot point if a book has extremely well-preserved white pages since there is nothing you even have to bother to discolor if you're trying to do the work with deception in mind.

 

Actually since CGC explicitly denotes trimming, I guess it would make sense that there wouldn't be a big outrage about it like there is with pressing. People get indignant about pressing because not only can CGC not always detect it, they go further by not denoting it even when they can, which isn't true of trimming.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
CGC couldn't initially detect Ewert's trimming either. I don't know why any potential customer of this hypothetical business would think that the same series of events wouldn't occur again.

 

Were they eventually able to detect Ewert's trimming, or did they ban him mostly to inhibit his ability to keep doing it? I wasn't sure.

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nearmint

nearmint

Posted
Posted
CGC couldn't initially detect Ewert's trimming either. I don't know why any potential customer of this hypothetical business would think that the same series of events wouldn't occur again.

 

Were they eventually able to detect Ewert's trimming, or did they ban him mostly to inhibit his ability to keep doing it? I wasn't sure.

 

They said they were able to detect it, and I take them at their word.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
They said they were able to detect it, and I take them at their word.

 

Yea me too, I take everyone at their word until they give you reason not to. I think I was off the boards when the Ewert thing hit, do you recall any details about the method of trimming used or how it could be detected? I read the thread months later but apparently missed the part about CGC saying they were subsequently able to detect his work.

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Sal

Sal

Posted
Posted

iirc, there was never any specifics given regarding the method Ewert used, just that CGC knew what to look for. i understand the lack of specifics to be purposeful, for obvious reasons

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