Ewert Book on Comic Link 1 1

[tth2]

I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

Relatively speaking, that is harsh.

And almost all of that is non-mainstream stuff, like Tarzan, Turok, Lone Ranger, etc.

[nearmint]

None of which changes the simple fact that if Supa knows that Ewert is selling under another name on CL, he should provide the information.

Sitting around whistling " I know a secret" gets old pretty fast.

Either Supa cares about his fellow collectors or he doesn't.

 

Exactly. And if supa has a reason to not broadcast what he knows here on the boards, fine, but he should at least contact Josh and clue him in.

[delekkerste]

Well how about I vocally play devils advocate as someone who still buys HG slabs, though with everything we (I) have learned over the past few years that frequency has subsided.

As an indication of how much the shenanigans in this hobby have affected me, back in the day I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on HG slabs--annually. I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

 

You should have put some of that money into HK real estate, buddy.

[ciorac]

I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

Relatively speaking, that is harsh.

And almost all of that is non-mainstream stuff, like Tarzan, Turok, Lone Ranger, etc.

 

Fun stuff to collect Tim. And after all, at its core, the hobby is really about fun. The dollars stuff gets so mundane and stressful when introduced.

[delekkerste]

The problem I have always had is the marketing of the serene image of, all these books in 9.6 are untouched, real survivors, when in reality people are pulling out everything they can get away with and still garner a blue label.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I suppose if you are a collector or dealer who only cares about the number on the label and the $$$ to be earned, and the acceptance in the marketplace of both, then what has happened to the hobby doesn't faze you and you just go with the flow. If, however, you still approach the hobby with a sense of awe and nostalgia, it's become a farce. No longer are high grade books a rare commodity that you can marvel over for having survived the ravages of time and multiple ownership, keeping in mind how most people treated their books as kids - the "untouched, real survivors" as you put it.

 

Instead, they have become a manufactured commodity where the years can be rolled back through artificial methods. What pizzes me off the most is that these practices have become so pervasive that you almost have to assume that any high-grade, high-value book that hits the market has been potentialized - which means the awe about survivorship is gone. I find it truly befuddling how people can fawn over a high-grade book knowing with almost metaphysical certainty that it was thrown under the press multiple times (and hopefully not worse than that) to achieve that numerical grade. It is what it is, but where's the wonder in that? Or is it all about the grade/status and $$$ now?

[mysterio]

Sooner or later everything is about the money, unfortunately. Especially with rabid collectors willing to pay through the nose for the "best".

[tth2]

Well how about I vocally play devils advocate as someone who still buys HG slabs, though with everything we (I) have learned over the past few years that frequency has subsided.

As an indication of how much the shenanigans in this hobby have affected me, back in the day I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on HG slabs--annually. I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

 

You should have put some of that money into HK real estate, buddy.

I did. I bought a flat for my Mom. Up 50% in 3 years, based on what her neighbors just sold their flat for.

 

Can`t afford to buy a flat for myself!

[tth2]

I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

Relatively speaking, that is harsh.

And almost all of that is non-mainstream stuff, like Tarzan, Turok, Lone Ranger, etc.

 

Fun stuff to collect Tim. And after all, at its core, the hobby is really about fun. The dollars stuff gets so mundane and stressful when introduced.

Totally agree, Bill, although when I was spending money, it was for stuff that I genuinely liked and collected. I`ve never bought comics for pure investment purposes.

 

Mainly, my point was to show how much the various shady goings on in our hobby have caused me to retreat from the hobby.

[shadroch]

I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

Relatively speaking, that is harsh.

And almost all of that is non-mainstream stuff, like Tarzan, Turok, Lone Ranger, etc.

 

Fun stuff to collect Tim. And after all, at its core, the hobby is really about fun. The dollars stuff gets so mundane and stressful when introduced.

Totally agree, Bill, although when I was spending money, it was for stuff that I genuinely liked and collected. I`ve never bought comics for pure investment purposes.

 

Mainly, my point was to show how much the various shady goings on in our hobby have caused me to retreat from the hobby.

 

Have they caused you you to retreat from the hobby or caused you to stop investing in comic books? It's not the same thing.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The problem I have always had is the marketing of the serene image of, all these books in 9.6 are untouched, real survivors, when in reality people are pulling out everything they can get away with and still garner a blue label.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I suppose if you are a collector or dealer who only cares about the number on the label and the $$$ to be earned, and the acceptance in the marketplace of both, then what has happened to the hobby doesn't faze you and you just go with the flow. If, however, you still approach the hobby with a sense of awe and nostalgia, it's become a farce. No longer are high grade books a rare commodity that you can marvel over for having survived the ravages of time and multiple ownership, keeping in mind how most people treated their books as kids - the "untouched, real survivors" as you put it.

 

Instead, they have become a manufactured commodity where the years can be rolled back through artificial methods. What pizzes me off the most is that these practices have become so pervasive that you almost have to assume that any high-grade, high-value book that hits the market has been potentialized - which means the awe about survivorship is gone. I find it truly befuddling how people can fawn over a high-grade book knowing with almost metaphysical certainty that it was thrown under the press multiple times (and hopefully not worse than that) to achieve that numerical grade. It is what it is, but where's the wonder in that? Or is it all about the grade/status and $$$ now?

 

I think that has a lot to do with the eras one collects Gene. SA Marvels are almost forever going to be "tainted" in the eyes of some, but there is plenty of stuff out there from 1966-on in high grade, that the vast majority have not been touched in any way. Afterall, a sweet NM Marvel from 1969 is over 40 years old, and still a treasure to behold.

 

I also don't understand all the "the greed has killed the hobby for me" posts. Why? If it isn't uber high grade, it isn't worth collecting? (and this coming from a HG guy). If you're a Hulk fan, for instance, and you can afford to buy a VF/NM Hulk # 1, but you suspect, and perhaps rightfully so, that any HG copy you go after has been potentialized, then why not go after a nice mid grade copy that probably hasn't been? Its almost like the fantasy of virgin uber-high grade books has met with the shady reality that has always underlied this hobby, and suddenly, the whole hobby has left a sour taste in your mouth.

 

If you truly love this hobby, you can adjust to the changing landscape and still keep your principles intact, while not getting out entirely. Find those things that still make it enjoyable for you, maybe its reading trades, collecting art, or just interacting with fellow collectors. Why let the actions of others affect your ability to derive satisfaction and enjoyment from something that is dear to you?

[blazingbob]

Tim and Gene sit around counting Krugerands.

 

It's not about the money, it's all about stacking gold coins in their money vaults.

 

 

[shadroch]

Tim and Gene sit around counting Krugerands.

 

It's not about the money, it's all about stacking gold coins in their money vaults.

 

 

Not that there is anything wrong with it.

[paperheart]

Tim and Gene sit around counting Krugerands.

 

It's not about the money, it's all about stacking gold coins in their money vaults.

 

 

oh, the poor dollar. i remember when it was all about the benjamins

[delekkerste]

If you truly love this hobby, you can adjust to the changing landscape and still keep your principles intact, while not getting out entirely. Find those things that still make it enjoyable for you, maybe its reading trades, collecting art, or just interacting with fellow collectors. Why let the actions of others affect your ability to derive satisfaction and enjoyment from something that is dear to you?

 

You've pretty much described exactly what I do now - I buy and read trades like they're going out of style, I collect OA and I actively interact with fellow collectors both here on the Boards and in real life as well. As for HG slab collecting...that's dead to me now. For a while, I was still bidding on the occasional book here and there (you may recall that I was the underbidder on that Sensation #1 9.0 or 9.2 earlier this year; you posted a response about it), but I've even cut that out of late. I just find it unfortunate that the hobby has gone down the path that it has...but, as you said, there are other ways to enjoy the medium.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

If you truly love this hobby, you can adjust to the changing landscape and still keep your principles intact, while not getting out entirely. Find those things that still make it enjoyable for you, maybe its reading trades, collecting art, or just interacting with fellow collectors. Why let the actions of others affect your ability to derive satisfaction and enjoyment from something that is dear to you?

 

You've pretty much described exactly what I do now - I buy and read trades like they're going out of style, I collect OA and I actively interact with fellow collectors both here on the Boards and in real life as well. As for HG slab collecting...that's dead to me now. For a while, I was still bidding on the occasional book here and there (you may recall that I was the underbidder on that Sensation #1 9.0 or 9.2 earlier this year; you posted a response about it), but I've even cut that out of late. I just find it unfortunate that the hobby has gone down the path that it has...but, as you said, there are other ways to enjoy the medium.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...I'm sorry to see guys like you and Tim (and others I'm sure) lose their interest in high grade books because of things like Pressing. However, I'm glad you've chosen to still remain a part of the hobby. (thumbs u

 

 

[MrBedrock]

The problem I have always had is the marketing of the serene image of, all these books in 9.6 are untouched, real survivors, when in reality people are pulling out everything they can get away with and still garner a blue label.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I suppose if you are a collector or dealer who only cares about the number on the label and the $$$ to be earned, and the acceptance in the marketplace of both, then what has happened to the hobby doesn't faze you and you just go with the flow. If, however, you still approach the hobby with a sense of awe and nostalgia, it's become a farce. No longer are high grade books a rare commodity that you can marvel over for having survived the ravages of time and multiple ownership, keeping in mind how most people treated their books as kids - the "untouched, real survivors" as you put it.

 

Instead, they have become a manufactured commodity where the years can be rolled back through artificial methods. What pizzes me off the most is that these practices have become so pervasive that you almost have to assume that any high-grade, high-value book that hits the market has been potentialized - which means the awe about survivorship is gone. I find it truly befuddling how people can fawn over a high-grade book knowing with almost metaphysical certainty that it was thrown under the press multiple times (and hopefully not worse than that) to achieve that numerical grade. It is what it is, but where's the wonder in that? Or is it all about the grade/status and $$$ now?

No. It's all about whining.

[MrBedrock]

I have a little problem with folks who used to buy uber-high grade stuff and now say that the current high grade slabbed market is somehow tainted.

To my mind there are three reasons one collects ultra-high grade, top of census type books...

1) For the appreciation of the beauty of a comic which looks fresh off the newstand.

2) For the investment potential of an item which is the best example of its type and therefore can command a captive audience.

3) For the prestige and satisfaction that comes with knowing one has the best example available.

 

The big down-side to pressing is the increase in availability of comics which, for all intents and purposes, are high grade. (I realize this is the crux of the debate for some, but I defy anyone to show proof that they can tell a pressed book from an unpressed book.) So anyone who collects for reason number one should be excited because of greater opportunity to acquire really nice graded books. But some still complain. Is it that those who are complaining are doing so because, in their mind, the opportunity for investment and prestige is diminished? Who knows. But if it is, then they have no room to call pressers greedy.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. I am a high grade collector. I admit that, while I love the look of an immaculate condition old comic, there is some satisfaction derived from watching that same book go up in value year after year. And it is pretty cool to hear the compliments..."You own that? Holy cow, that is a book!"...But for me to then say that the "greed" of a presser is going to kill my joy in collecting..well, it's disingenuous at best.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Well how about I vocally play devils advocate as someone who still buys HG slabs, though with everything we (I) have learned over the past few years that frequency has subsided.

As an indication of how much the shenanigans in this hobby have affected me, back in the day I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on HG slabs--annually. I now spend less than ten thousand dollars on HG slabs each year.

 

You should have put some of that money into HK real estate, buddy.

 

Richmond,B.C. ?

[NewWorldOrder]

I have a little problem with folks who used to buy uber-high grade stuff and now say that the current high grade slabbed market is somehow tainted.

To my mind there are three reasons one collects ultra-high grade, top of census type books...

1) For the appreciation of the beauty of a comic which looks fresh off the newstand.

2) For the investment potential of an item which is the best example of its type and therefore can command a captive audience.

3) For the prestige and satisfaction that comes with knowing one has the best example available.

 

The big down-side to pressing is the increase in availability of comics which, for all intents and purposes, are high grade. (I realize this is the crux of the debate for some, but I defy anyone to show proof that they can tell a pressed book from an unpressed book.) So anyone who collects for reason number one should be excited because of greater opportunity to acquire really nice graded books. But some still complain. Is it that those who are complaining are doing so because, in their mind, the opportunity for investment and prestige is diminished? Who knows. But if it is, then they have no room to call pressers greedy.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. I am a high grade collector. I admit that, while I love the look of an immaculate condition old comic, there is some satisfaction derived from watching that same book go up in value year after year. And it is pretty cool to hear the compliments..."You own that? Holy cow, that is a book!"...But for me to then say that the "greed" of a presser is going to kill my joy in collecting..well, it's disingenuous at best.

 

I am not speaking for anyone, but maybe one theory could be that some people like to know that their HG example of the book they have is not obtainable by many other collectors.

 

Maybe an Elitist mentality?

 

They might think it cheapens their collecting prowess over the rest of the community so they can't say they have the best anymore.

 

(Not saying this about Tim or Gene as I get what they are saying even though I am the other side of the fence)

 

I agree with you Richard that whether the HG book was pressed or not I still love looking at the book either way.

 

Responding to George's comment (jiveturkey):

 

I would have disagree with your post about post-1969 books not being pressed as much as the SA. I think it's quite opposite actually as BA books have pressed from here till the moon. ASM 121,122,129 Hulk 181 GSX #1 in HG has been pressed so many times the imprint on the cover is on alot of the pressing machines.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2010 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[nearmint]

As with any discussion about pressing, I think the sides are drawn by whether or not you have a visceral repulsion to the practice. Those that do are passionate about it, and those that don't have that visceral reaction simply couldn't care less whether a book has been pressed or not.

 

I don't think it's an argument that involves logic. It's just a gut feeling.