Ewert Book on Comic Link 1 1

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Responding to George's comment (jiveturkey):

 

I would have disagree with your post about post-1969 books not being pressed as much as the SA. I think it's quite opposite actually as BA books have pressed from here till the moon. ASM 121,122,129 Hulk 181 GSX #1 in HG has been pressed so many times the imprint on the cover is on alot of the pressing machines.

 

 

Let me put it another way...the chance of finding OO, or two-owner collections from the late 60s-on with high grade, unpressed samples are much better then finding early Marvels that fit the bill. The Mound City collection being one of those rare examples of the latter. Have copies of the books you mentioned been Pressed A LOT? Sure, I believe that, but only because there are so many out there. Still plenty of copies left that have not.

 

I really enjoy late 60s/early 70s Marvels, and the market downturn of the last few years has allowed me to pick up boxes of the stuff (and we're talking 8.5/9.0+ type quality) for literally pennies on the dollar. Virtually none of them have been Pressed, so even if I did have an issue with Pressing, these books would fit the bill for me if I were just looking to keep them and enjoy them.

 

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

I have a little problem with folks who used to buy uber-high grade stuff and now say that the current high grade slabbed market is somehow tainted.

To my mind there are three reasons one collects ultra-high grade, top of census type books...

1) For the appreciation of the beauty of a comic which looks fresh off the newstand.

2) For the investment potential of an item which is the best example of its type and therefore can command a captive audience.

3) For the prestige and satisfaction that comes with knowing one has the best example available.

 

The big down-side to pressing is the increase in availability of comics which, for all intents and purposes, are high grade. (I realize this is the crux of the debate for some, but I defy anyone to show proof that they can tell a pressed book from an unpressed book.) So anyone who collects for reason number one should be excited because of greater opportunity to acquire really nice graded books. But some still complain. Is it that those who are complaining are doing so because, in their mind, the opportunity for investment and prestige is diminished? Who knows. But if it is, then they have no room to call pressers greedy.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. I am a high grade collector. I admit that, while I love the look of an immaculate condition old comic, there is some satisfaction derived from watching that same book go up in value year after year. And it is pretty cool to hear the compliments..."You own that? Holy cow, that is a book!"...But for me to then say that the "greed" of a presser is going to kill my joy in collecting..well, it's disingenuous at best.

 

Wow, that analysis so fundamentally flawed that I hardly know where to begin. Let me offer the most simple, yet overriding and powerful, argument for why one would be interested in collecting unmanipulated high grade books. And that is the sense of magic/awe/wonder of owning something that was meant to be used (read) and discarded decades ago, but instead somehow, miraculously even, survived the ravages of time, ownership, moving, floods, kid siblings and mothers cleaning out closets while you were away at college, etc. to remain in as pristine a state as possible. This is a sense that pressing and other manipulation does away with.

 

Why do we revere pedigree collections? It's because we respect the extreme elements of our hobby who had the compulsion, if not the foresight, to accumulate tremendous #s of comic books in the 1930s-1960s and, defying all odds, managed to keep the books in pristine condition. While I understand that some people are not averse to owning pressed books, can anyone truly say that there is no difference between a book that was naturally and meticulously preserved as, say, a 9.4 over many decades and a book that was worn down to a 9.0 but was manipulated to achieve a 9.4 label? Can you not see why vast numbers of people, even those who endorse/accept/tolerate pressing, might believe the former book is the much more desirable one?

 

I accept that some people are OK with pressed books while others like me are not. But, I do not accept the former camp trying to frame people like me as hypocrites or worse when there are sound, logical and obvious reasons (which have nothing to do with diminishing prestige or investibility) why many feel the same way I do. It's like listening to bad Soviet propaganda.

[MrBedrock]

I have a little problem with folks who used to buy uber-high grade stuff and now say that the current high grade slabbed market is somehow tainted.

To my mind there are three reasons one collects ultra-high grade, top of census type books...

1) For the appreciation of the beauty of a comic which looks fresh off the newstand.

2) For the investment potential of an item which is the best example of its type and therefore can command a captive audience.

3) For the prestige and satisfaction that comes with knowing one has the best example available.

 

The big down-side to pressing is the increase in availability of comics which, for all intents and purposes, are high grade. (I realize this is the crux of the debate for some, but I defy anyone to show proof that they can tell a pressed book from an unpressed book.) So anyone who collects for reason number one should be excited because of greater opportunity to acquire really nice graded books. But some still complain. Is it that those who are complaining are doing so because, in their mind, the opportunity for investment and prestige is diminished? Who knows. But if it is, then they have no room to call pressers greedy.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. I am a high grade collector. I admit that, while I love the look of an immaculate condition old comic, there is some satisfaction derived from watching that same book go up in value year after year. And it is pretty cool to hear the compliments..."You own that? Holy cow, that is a book!"...But for me to then say that the "greed" of a presser is going to kill my joy in collecting..well, it's disingenuous at best.

 

Wow, that analysis so fundamentally flawed that I hardly know where to begin. Let me offer the most simple, yet overriding and powerful, argument for why one would be interested in collecting unmanipulated high grade books. And that is the sense of magic/awe/wonder of owning something that was meant to be used (read) and discarded decades ago, but instead somehow, miraculously even, survived the ravages of time, ownership, moving, floods, kid siblings and mothers cleaning out closets while you were away at college, etc. to remain in as pristine a state as possible. This is a sense that pressing and other manipulation does away with.

 

Why do we revere pedigree collections? It's because we respect the extreme elements of our hobby who had the compulsion, if not the foresight, to accumulate tremendous #s of comic books in the 1930s-1960s and, defying all odds, managed to keep the books in pristine condition. While I understand that some people are not averse to owning pressed books, can anyone truly say that there is no difference between a book that was naturally and meticulously preserved as, say, a 9.4 over many decades and a book that was worn down to a 9.0 but was manipulated to achieve a 9.4 label? Can you not see why vast numbers of people, even those who endorse/accept/tolerate pressing, might believe the former book is the much more desirable one?

 

I accept that some people are OK with pressed books while others like me are not. But, I do not accept the former camp trying to frame people like me as hypocrites or worse when there are sound, logical and obvious reasons why many feel the same way I do. It's like listening to bad Soviet propaganda.

But by your own definition, simply applying pressure to a book negates the "magic" of a pedigree. And by extension, simply applying pressure to a book destroys your joy in collecting. I can't find the sound logic in that. It must be something more. Thus my post above.

[Nexus]

But by your own definition, simply applying pressure to a book negates the "magic" of a pedigree. And by extension, simply applying pressure to a book destroys your joy in collecting. I can't find the sound logic in that. It must be something more. Thus my post above.

 

It's really that simple for me. If I'm paying a premium for a vintage car, then it matters to me if the car is pristine, or if it had a dent that got pulled and just looks pristine. There's a distinction there for me (and I apologize if this analogy has been used before...I'm sure there are better analogies as well).

 

To some, it may make no difference, both cars are the same to them. But hell if I'm going to pay the same price. I'll also be pretty unhappy if I find out after the fact that the car had been "fixed" (or whatever euphemism is appropriate for pressing/manipulation).

 

Since this practice has become so rampant, and has seemingly become accepted by the hobby as a whole, I choose not to participate.

 

Just in high grade slabs, though. I still enjoy comics and go to my LCS every week.

[jbud73]

As with any discussion about pressing, I think the sides are drawn by whether or not you have a visceral repulsion to the practice. Those that do are passionate about it, and those that don't have that visceral reaction simply couldn't care less whether a book has been pressed or not.

 

I don't think it's an argument that involves logic. It's just a gut feeling.

 

Jeff,

 

I'm not going talk directly for Tim and Gene, but having posted as discussed this with them before the actual manipulation tactic is 'secondary' its not about pressing it could be anything really, and its not about an elitist mentality either. The concept would apply equally if I was buying a 9.4 book that 'used' to be a 9.6 when there were 9.8s in the census. The problem, or gut feeling if you will is tied to UTILITY, how much something cost you verses how much value and total satisfaction you derived from that purchase (inclusive of nostalgia, prestige, artistic appreciation, and so on).

 

The DD 11 that opened my eyes all those years ago is a Utopian example of comic manipulation tactics &*^%$# spooning with your UTILITY vibe. The book sells for approx. 400 in 9.4, gets pressed and other potential treatment, and then is valued and sells for 1100. This is where a lot (not a majority or most) but a lot of people have their utility derailed. You may buy something at 400 and be happy with your purchase, you may also but something at 1100 and be equally happy more or less with your purchase. BUT, if you buy something at 1100 that only a month ago was valued at 400 in the market and nothing about the book changed EXCEPT for a numeric grade on the label; most people will suffer a loss of Utility about their purchase.

 

I'll even take it one step further, as the concept of utility is all encompassing to a certain point. Mr. Bedrock mentioned that he has an issue with those who view the HG market as tainted, that it's disingenuous. Here is why his comment is to my mind disingenuous; comic manipulation makes him and SOT $$$$, there may be more HG examples for people to buy, but there are more HG examples for them to SELL. More pointedly their margins go up if you consider the crack press and resubmit game, yet buyers are receiving inferior products (CGC is at its heart an image of consistency a GUARANTEE of propriety) that have been manipulated in a similar fashion as the DD 11 example.

 

The results of UTILITY are different for every person, Bedrock and SOT make money on the practice and therefore their overall tolerance for it is positive and the threshold of utility is going to be greater. Others will at first be disgusted by it feel ripped off and then start doing it, if you cant beat them, join them is an old adage for a reason, it happens all the time. And finally other people will increase or decrease their spending dependent on how much the practice effects their over all enjoyment, or utility if you will.

 

If you look at Gene, Tim and myself, I'd say we were collectors that followed a similar collecting style. We had relative means (though they spent more than I did) meaning that the total money spent as a portion of our income was significant enough to effect our decision - a person making 50 million for example is not going to have a high utility about a 10K purchase, though some will. We almost exclusively bought, over a 5 year span my ratio was 98% in terms of dollars spent to realized from selling. And finally we also have a relative intrinsic nostalgia for the purchases we made. If Gene wanted to maximize his $$$ well the stock market was a far better place for the dollars he spent and spends in comics. I'm sure Tim's money and energy was better spent in real estate or other pure business ventures in South Asia.

 

In the end all of us are still involved in the hobby, Gene and I buy art and read trades (unfortunately I lasted longer in the HG slab buying game by a few years and have had to pay for it with how expensive OA is now), Tim has moved on from the HG DCs to other comics that I assume give him enjoyment but are such a small portion of his disposable income as to be unaffected by the "gut feeling" he established with the HG / High $$$ 10 cent DC slab market.

 

This does not mean that the experience of person A,B,C on either side of the "fence" is the right one, there is, as always no right way to be involved in a hobby. Still I've always maintained that everyone should have the same chance to enjoy the hobby and in an unregulated market that needs to be accompanied by more information because what you don't know can hurt you. Comics aren't for kids anymore was an old slogan in the 80s and the comic collecting hobby, especially the HG slab portion is not for the uninformed either. There are a lot of tactics at play that, had I been discovering, or rediscovering the hobby circa 2010 I would want to know about and I think that flows true for the any person entering the hobby or currently in it, who wants to maximize their enjoyment of it. Again for the record I still buy the occasional HG slab, its just that my gut has a much harder time loosening my wallet than it did from 2002 - 2006.

[divad]

 

It's quite simple really, dealers like pressed books, and collectors don't.

[MrBedrock]

I certainly respect anyone's decision to start or stop collecting for whatever reason. I am going to be the last person to rain on someone for what they choose to collect or not collect.

 

My reason for posting above is that I have a hard time stomaching the sermon that pressing is causing the downfall of the hobby. And I especially have a hard time with the sermonizers using their own reduced spending as proof that the hobby is suffering...like they have seen the light and the rest of us are dupes.

[MrBedrock]

Mr. Bedrock mentioned that he has an issue with those who view the HG market as tainted, that it's disingenuous. Here is why his comment is to my mind disingenuous; comic manipulation makes him and SOT $$$$

I can't speak for SOT, but...

1) I do not play the crack, press and re-slab game.

2) I certainly don't own a press, so I have never received any money for my pressing service - which is non-existent.

3) I do not generally have books pressed for resale (though I have on a couple of occasions where I knew that a pressing on a raw book would result in a significantly different CGC grade due to a specific set of CGC grading criteria).

I will say that pressing, in and of itself has probably netted me less that $5,000 in profit over the last year, against $500,000 in back issue sales through my business and any auction houses I've consigned to.

 

Pressing is not a money making thing to me. So eliminate that from your argument.

 

I just do not think pressing, in and of itself, when done correctly, has any effect on a comic book other than making it flat.

 

 

[jbud73]

Mr. Bedrock mentioned that he has an issue with those who view the HG market as tainted, that it's disingenuous. Here is why his comment is to my mind disingenuous; comic manipulation makes him and SOT $$$$

I can't speak for SOT, but...

1) I do not play the crack, press and re-slab game.

2) I certainly don't own a press, so I have never received any money for my pressing service - which is non-existent.

3) I do not generally have books pressed for resale (though I have on a couple of occasions where I knew that a pressing on a raw book would result in a significantly different CGC grade due to a specific set of CGC grading criteria).

I will say that pressing, in and of itself has probably netted me less that $5,000 in profit over the last year, against $500,000 in back issue sales through my business and any auction houses I've consigned to.

 

Pressing is not a money making thing to me. So eliminate that from your argument.

 

I just do not think pressing, in and of itself, when done correctly, has any effect on a comic book other than making it flat.

 

 

My point was that anyone who derives financial benefit from comic manipulation has a conflict of interest and increased position of hypocrisy when it comes to commenting on the overall effect of said manipulation on the hobby. The amount of that conflict may or may not be equal to the amount of financial benefit, however I would argue that amount has minimal relevance, someone guilty of insider trading is still an inside trader, the amount of revenue derived from the trading is not as relevant as the act itself.

 

I will agree that my reduction, or even further the overall reduction of Gene, Tim and I from the HG market has had no effect on the hobby as a whole. The lament is not, "well i no longer buy a lot of HG slabs, so HG slabs must be a sucker's game." My point is that if you are buying comic X for amount Y, you should know what is possibly occurring to comic X before spending amount Y. Further, for those that say "its not a big deal", or there's nothing to see here", consider the source of where that argument is coming from and the reasoning for the position articulated. If that argument comes from entities that have financial incentives tied to the manipulations in question, then yes those opinions are potentially suspect if not hypocritical in nature.

[nearmint]

I certainly respect anyone's decision to start or stop collecting for whatever reason. I am going to be the last person to rain on someone for what they choose to collect or not collect.

 

My reason for posting above is that I have a hard time stomaching the sermon that pressing is causing the downfall of the hobby. And I especially have a hard time with the sermonizers using their own reduced spending as proof that the hobby is suffering...like they have seen the light and the rest of us are dupes.

 

(thumbs u

[nearmint]

Mr. Bedrock mentioned that he has an issue with those who view the HG market as tainted, that it's disingenuous. Here is why his comment is to my mind disingenuous; comic manipulation makes him and SOT $$$$

I can't speak for SOT, but...

1) I do not play the crack, press and re-slab game.

2) I certainly don't own a press, so I have never received any money for my pressing service - which is non-existent.

3) I do not generally have books pressed for resale (though I have on a couple of occasions where I knew that a pressing on a raw book would result in a significantly different CGC grade due to a specific set of CGC grading criteria).

I will say that pressing, in and of itself has probably netted me less that $5,000 in profit over the last year, against $500,000 in back issue sales through my business and any auction houses I've consigned to.

 

Pressing is not a money making thing to me. So eliminate that from your argument.

 

I just do not think pressing, in and of itself, when done correctly, has any effect on a comic book other than making it flat.

 

 

My point was that anyone who derives financial benefit from comic manipulation has a conflict of interest and increased position of hypocrisy when it comes to commenting on the overall effect of said manipulation on the hobby. The amount of that conflict may or may not be equal to the amount of financial benefit, however I would argue that amount has minimal relevance, someone guilty of insider trading is still an inside trader, the amount of revenue derived from the trading is not as relevant as the act itself.

 

I will agree that my reduction, or even further the overall reduction of Gene, Tim and I from the HG market has had no effect on the hobby as a whole. The lament is not, "well i no longer buy a lot of HG slabs, so HG slabs must be a sucker's game." My point is that if you are buying comic X for amount Y, you should know what is possibly occurring to comic X before spending amount Y. Further, for those that say "its not a big deal", or there's nothing to see here", consider the source of where that argument is coming from and the reasoning for the position articulated. If that argument comes from entities that have financial incentives tied to the manipulations in question, then yes those opinions are potentially suspect if not hypocritical in nature.

 

No one is stopping anyone from doing their due diligence to uncover potential pitfalls in this hobby or any other.

 

Those who speak of pressing as "not a big deal" are not exclusively dealers profiting from it. There are plenty of collectors, like myself, that simply aren't bothered by the practice, and freely say so. So, one considering the source of such statements couldn't accurately come to the conclusion that it's only dealers that profit from it.

 

[MrBedrock]

Mr. Bedrock mentioned that he has an issue with those who view the HG market as tainted, that it's disingenuous. Here is why his comment is to my mind disingenuous; comic manipulation makes him and SOT $$$$

I can't speak for SOT, but...

1) I do not play the crack, press and re-slab game.

2) I certainly don't own a press, so I have never received any money for my pressing service - which is non-existent.

3) I do not generally have books pressed for resale (though I have on a couple of occasions where I knew that a pressing on a raw book would result in a significantly different CGC grade due to a specific set of CGC grading criteria).

I will say that pressing, in and of itself has probably netted me less that $5,000 in profit over the last year, against $500,000 in back issue sales through my business and any auction houses I've consigned to.

 

Pressing is not a money making thing to me. So eliminate that from your argument.

 

I just do not think pressing, in and of itself, when done correctly, has any effect on a comic book other than making it flat.

 

 

My point was that anyone who derives financial benefit from comic manipulation has a conflict of interest and increased position of hypocrisy when it comes to commenting on the overall effect of said manipulation on the hobby. The amount of that conflict may or may not be equal to the amount of financial benefit, however I would argue that amount has minimal relevance, someone guilty of insider trading is still an inside trader, the amount of revenue derived from the trading is not as relevant as the act itself.

 

I will agree that my reduction, or even further the overall reduction of Gene, Tim and I from the HG market has had no effect on the hobby as a whole. The lament is not, "well i no longer buy a lot of HG slabs, so HG slabs must be a sucker's game." My point is that if you are buying comic X for amount Y, you should know what is possibly occurring to comic X before spending amount Y. Further, for those that say "its not a big deal", or there's nothing to see here", consider the source of where that argument is coming from and the reasoning for the position articulated. If that argument comes from entities that have financial incentives tied to the manipulations in question, then yes those opinions are potentially suspect if not hypocritical in nature.

So you are saying specifically that I am a hypocrite for arguing that pressing has no bearing on whether or not I will buy a comic for my collection simply because I also sell comics for a living. I didn't end that statement with a question mark because there is no question as to what you are saying.

 

Well, it is obvious that money is the sole factor in your reason for backing off from the high grade slab market. Your fear of losing money (or not making enough on your purchase) is a financial one. So I guess I need to take your explanation with a grain of salt as well.

[nearmint]

To put it another way, I wouldn't state that it's only people worried that their high grade collections will be devalued because of an increase in available high grade copies due to pressing that are so vocally opposed to the practice. In the same way, I wouldn't think it accurate to state that only those profiting from pressing come out in favor of it.

[jbud73]

Mr. Bedrock mentioned that he has an issue with those who view the HG market as tainted, that it's disingenuous. Here is why his comment is to my mind disingenuous; comic manipulation makes him and SOT $$$$

I can't speak for SOT, but...

1) I do not play the crack, press and re-slab game.

2) I certainly don't own a press, so I have never received any money for my pressing service - which is non-existent.

3) I do not generally have books pressed for resale (though I have on a couple of occasions where I knew that a pressing on a raw book would result in a significantly different CGC grade due to a specific set of CGC grading criteria).

I will say that pressing, in and of itself has probably netted me less that $5,000 in profit over the last year, against $500,000 in back issue sales through my business and any auction houses I've consigned to.

 

Pressing is not a money making thing to me. So eliminate that from your argument.

 

I just do not think pressing, in and of itself, when done correctly, has any effect on a comic book other than making it flat.

 

 

My point was that anyone who derives financial benefit from comic manipulation has a conflict of interest and increased position of hypocrisy when it comes to commenting on the overall effect of said manipulation on the hobby. The amount of that conflict may or may not be equal to the amount of financial benefit, however I would argue that amount has minimal relevance, someone guilty of insider trading is still an inside trader, the amount of revenue derived from the trading is not as relevant as the act itself.

 

I will agree that my reduction, or even further the overall reduction of Gene, Tim and I from the HG market has had no effect on the hobby as a whole. The lament is not, "well i no longer buy a lot of HG slabs, so HG slabs must be a sucker's game." My point is that if you are buying comic X for amount Y, you should know what is possibly occurring to comic X before spending amount Y. Further, for those that say "its not a big deal", or there's nothing to see here", consider the source of where that argument is coming from and the reasoning for the position articulated. If that argument comes from entities that have financial incentives tied to the manipulations in question, then yes those opinions are potentially suspect if not hypocritical in nature.

So you are saying specifically that I am a hypocrite for arguing that pressing has no bearing on whether or not I will buy a comic for my collection simply because I also sell comics for a living. I didn't end that statement with a question mark because there is no question as to what you are saying.

 

Well, it is obvious that money is the sole factor in your reason for backing off from the high grade slab market. Your fear of losing money (or not making enough on your purchase) is a financial one. So I guess I need to take your explanation with a grain of salt as well.

 

 

I'm saying that your statement, "pressing is not a money making thing for me is false" and that pressing has "no other effect on a comic other than making it flat" is also false.

 

In my statements I indicated that manipulation may or may not change buying and selling habits in a number of ways. Jeff indicates he has not been effected, others have in minimal to large ways. The core argument being that collectors need to be aware of the manipulation occurring in the HG slab market to make informed decisions and be wary of those entities that would seek to limit or down play the tactics on the hobby as a whole, or consider their reasons for doing so.

 

In terms of being a hypocrite; I'd say that the fact that you profit from pressed books certainly limits your ability to be objective in the overall argument on buying them.

 

In terms of my participation in the market, its not about money as a lone factor, its about the utility of a number of factors in combination. For a collector that buys in accumulation rather than sells overwhelmingly, or buys and sells in equal frequency the factors and underpinnings of purchasing differ greatly. To say that my motivation is purely monetary (in terms of not making enough on a purchase) when your frequency of purchase to sale out weights mine by a large factor (I've sold one HG slab in the last 5 years), now that is hypocritical.

Edited November 10, 2010 by jbud73

[MrBedrock]

I'm saying that your statement, "pressing is not a money making thing for me" is false, and that pressing has "no other effect on a comic other than making it flat" is also false.

 

Please explain to me, in great detail, how each of the above statements is false.

 

[jbud73]

I'm saying that your statement, "pressing is not a money making thing for me" is false, and that pressing has "no other effect on a comic other than making it flat" is also false.

 

Please explain to me, in great detail, how each of the above statements is false.

 

 

Well great detail should not be necessary. You stated that pressing has made you less than 5K over the past year, but the point is that it has made you money, so by definition you have made money.

 

Pressing has the ability to improve the technical grade of a comic and thereby increase its value, I'd call that a pretty significant effect in the context of the HG slab market given the established multiple differentials between 9.2 - 9.8.

[MrBedrock]

I'm saying that your statement, "pressing is not a money making thing for me" is false, and that pressing has "no other effect on a comic other than making it flat" is also false.

 

Please explain to me, in great detail, how each of the above statements is false.

 

 

Well great detail should not be necessary. You stated that pressing has made you less than 5K over the past year, but the point is that it has made you money, so by definition you have made money.

 

Pressing has the ability to improve the technical grade of a comic and thereby increase its value, I'd call that a pretty significant effect in the context of the HG slab market given the established multiple differentials between 9.2 - 9.8.

As you yourself said earlier - $10,000 isn't much to a collector making $50 million dollars. I guess there is a point at which that degree of utility comes into play. In my case, from your perspective, 1% is that point. In other words, since 1% of my sales are affected by pressing my views can't be regarded as unbiased.

 

I call BS.

 

As for pressing...a press can only flatten a book. As you yourself have stated, it can't make you buy it.

[blazingbob]

Frankly the argument that pressing alone will bring down the high grade market by itself is a little overstated. Every new collection pressed or unpressed coming into the market will potentially compete with what's already out there.

 

But let's not just punish the highest graded copy collector. Because let's look at what happens when a "It sold for how much" conversation takes place. Upgraders start running around and other guys start looking for equal graded copies. Being the first guy with the best copy will set the bar. Whether that bar is raised or dropped all depends on how the next copy is received.

 

Frankly I feel that Art collectors like having the only one. If it's a good piece there is no fear of another copy of the same piece coming to market. All they have to worry about is whether a flood of material from the same artist comes out.

 

And for the record Comic art collectors are just as BSD conscious as high grade comic collectors. While comic guys run around at shows with books under their arms they carry their portfolio's. A comic art collectors version of a pressed book is sticking another collector with his one of a kind art boat anchor. Disclosure - I liked the piece, doesn't mean anybody else does.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2010 by blazingbob

[jbud73]

I'm saying that your statement, "pressing is not a money making thing for me" is false, and that pressing has "no other effect on a comic other than making it flat" is also false.

 

Please explain to me, in great detail, how each of the above statements is false.

 

 

Well great detail should not be necessary. You stated that pressing has made you less than 5K over the past year, but the point is that it has made you money, so by definition you have made money.

 

Pressing has the ability to improve the technical grade of a comic and thereby increase its value, I'd call that a pretty significant effect in the context of the HG slab market given the established multiple differentials between 9.2 - 9.8.

As you yourself said earlier - $10,000 isn't much to a collector making $50 million dollars. I guess there is a point at which that degree of utility comes into play. In my case, from your perspective, 1% is that point. In other words, since 1% of my sales are affected by pressing my views can't be regarded as unbiased.

 

I call BS.

 

As for pressing...a press can only flatten a book. As you yourself have stated, it can't make you buy it.

 

As a proprietor of pressed comics books I'd question the objectivity of your opinion on the impact that manipulation tactics have, or how important that knowledge is to a collector of HG slabs. So I call BS too.

 

I'm not sure where I said pressing can make you buy a book. I think that pressing can make you buy a book regardless of the manipulation, or not buy a book. I don't think there are large numbers of collectors out there looking for pressed books as preferred examples.

 

This argument is essentially about proliferation of information. I think what David said earlier about collectors and dealers relating to pressing is generally, though not always true. For dealers manipulation has the potential to increase their revenue, for collectors it has the potential to decrease their monetary outlay, desire and utility of comic purchases. These perspectives will of course always be fundamentally at odds with one another. We have seen so many examples of this over the last few years; dealers trying to suppress manipulation information and collectors trying to increase their knowledge base of its occurrence.

[cloudofwit]

I'm saying that your statement, "pressing is not a money making thing for me" is false, and that pressing has "no other effect on a comic other than making it flat" is also false.

 

Please explain to me, in great detail, how each of the above statements is false.

 

 

Well great detail should not be necessary. You stated that pressing has made you less than 5K over the past year, but the point is that it has made you money, so by definition you have made money.

 

Pressing has the ability to improve the technical grade of a comic and thereby increase its value, I'd call that a pretty significant effect in the context of the HG slab market given the established multiple differentials between 9.2 - 9.8.

As you yourself said earlier - $10,000 isn't much to a collector making $50 million dollars. I guess there is a point at which that degree of utility comes into play. In my case, from your perspective, 1% is that point. In other words, since 1% of my sales are affected by pressing my views can't be regarded as unbiased.

 

I call BS.

 

As for pressing...a press can only flatten a book. As you yourself have stated, it can't make you buy it.

 

As a proprietor of pressed comics books I'd question the objectivity of your opinion on the impact that manipulation tactics have, or how important that knowledge is to a collector of HG slabs. So I call BS too.

 

I'm not sure where I said pressing can make you buy a book. I think that pressing can make you buy a book regardless of the manipulation, or not buy a book. I don't think there are large numbers of collectors out there looking for pressed books as preferred examples.

 

This argument is essentially about proliferation of information. I think what David said earlier about collectors and dealers relating to pressing is generally, though not always true. For dealers manipulation has the potential to increase their revenue, for collectors it has the potential to decrease their monetary outlay, desire and utility of comic purchases. These perspectives will of course always be fundamentally at odds with one another. We have seen so many examples of this over the last few years; dealers trying to suppress manipulation information and collectors trying to increase their knowledge base of its occurrence.

 

You can't question the objectivity of someone's opinion because opinions are subjective. I call BS.