The bright side of cleaning and pressing

[Rip]

Do you only buy slabbed books?

[fantastic_four]

Do you only buy slabbed books?

 

If there is a significant risk of restoration, i.e. the book is valued at $200 or more, then yes. Otherwise, no, I prefer raw.

[Illiterati-migration]

I've already stopped buying slabs .....

 

Not an option for me--the risk of restoration types other than cleaning and pressing is too great on the books I buy. I can't remember what you collect, but if it's non-key Bronze or Modern, then restoration of any kind is a tiny risk on those books, raw or slabbed.

 

 

I remember when your rhetorical response was: "The risk of restoration is too great on the books I buy."

 

Now we've got "The risk of restoration types other than cleaning and pressing is too great on the books I buy."

 

Keep lowerin' them standards, FF!

[THE_BEYONDER]

I've already stopped buying slabs .....

 

Not an option for me--the risk of restoration types other than cleaning and pressing is too great on the books I buy. I can't remember what you collect, but if it's non-key Bronze or Modern, then restoration of any kind is a tiny risk on those books, raw or slabbed.

 

Right now, I'm pretty much just buying Byrne books that I'm missing. I'm no longer a HG junkie, and the only new slabs being added to my collection....are the books I submit myself.

 

Although there are a few HG Silver Age books I would like to acquire.....I won't be picking them up for quite some time.

[fantastic_four]

Keep lowerin' them standards, FF!

 

It's not "lowering my standards," it's "living in the real world." Got a better alternative that works in the reality which exists outside your own head?

[fantastic_four]

Although there are a few HG Silver Age books I would like to acquire.....I won't be picking them up for quite some time.

 

Better buy 'em now before they go through the ever-increasing number of hands who tend to clean and press!!!

[THE_BEYONDER]

Although there are a few HG Silver Age books I would like to acquire.....I won't be picking them up for quite some time.

 

Better buy 'em now before they go through the ever-increasing number of hands who tend to clean and press!!!

 

It's already too late IMO.

[fantastic_four]

It's already too late IMO.

 

So are you going to give it up, then? The risks on those HG early Silver Marvels are still far, far greater outside the slab than inside it.

 

Plus, if the current attitudes in the coin hobby as compared to attitudes 15 to 20 years ago back when certification first started are any indication, there's the probability that the entire hobby will eventually come to the same point of view CGC has towards minor, undetectable restoration, that it's a normal and accepted part of collecting.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Plus, if the current attitudes in the coin hobby as compared to attitudes 15 to 20 years ago back when certification first started are any indication, there's the probability that the entire hobby will eventually come to the same point of view CGC has towards minor, undetectable restoration, that it's a normal and accepted part of collecting.

 

 

Call me a purist , but I will never share that point of view.

[Rip]

Why do you compare coins but not sports cards?

[Illiterati-migration]

Keep lowerin' them standards, FF!

 

It's not "lowering my standards," it's "living in the real world."

 

The real world, huh? Hey! Give me a call when you move in! We can talk about all the times you so stupidly defended your overpayment on graded collectibles!

 

[comicwiz]

After a year or two of being on the fence about cleaning and pressing, I'm actually starting to think it will benefit me as a high grade collector! Here's why:

 

* The population of 9.4 and up books will increase, thereby increasing the number of people who can own them.

* Due to higher supply, prices on 9.6/9.8 books will come down a bit.

* People with a complete distaste for restoration will either stop collecting high grade altogether, or simply buy less, thereby decreasing the competitive demand for primo books.

 

My collection will eventually become even better than it otherwise would have...thanks go out to all the greedy cleaners and pressers out there driving up supply and decreasing demand!

 

James

 

I believe that one of the points you have been driving home for some time about empowering collectors with restoration detection skills may in fact someday achieve more widespread acceptance. Unfortunately, the quantam shift, and cross-pollenation of knowledge required to allow comic collectors the ability to spot things like colour touch, trimming, and pressed/cleaned comics will take a substantial amount of time. And yet, it appears that there is a far greater desire to both sustain high returns and stablize the values of the high-grade/back-issue comic market with procedures to cosmetically alter the appearance of books -- a practice that has stolen the spotlight momentarily, and has catapulted the "decietful" nature of the comic market further ahead than its competitor, the educated buyer. It is also due to the lack of developed thought and critical thinking that derives only from people dealing with the idiosyncracies of restorative procedures on a day-to-day basis, that comes in the way of an emerging and meaningful discussion around the much heated views on pressing and cleaning.

 

And perhaps there may appear to be much cause for rejoicing and celebrating to a high-grade collector like yourself, when the prospect of an apprehensive community of collectors, still reeling from the effects of pressed/cleaned comics which are effectively passing through CGC undetected, further driving the values of hyper-high-grade comics into a downward trend. However, at the root of your theory is the allure that high-grade comics MAY be attained at lower prices -- similarily, the kind of allure which drove flocks of buyers to comic-keys -- a seller whose strict adherence to selling books raw on eBay, and whose anti-CGC position solidifiied in buyers minds the prospect of buying high-grade comics at much lower prices than their CGC'd counterparts.

[fantastic_four]

Why do you compare coins but not sports cards?

 

Because I know jack about them, and the card forums are dead. Please, fill us in!

[fantastic_four]

I believe that one of the points you have been driving home for some time about empowering collectors with restoration detection skills may in fact someday achieve more widespread acceptance. Unfortunately, the quantam shift, and cross-pollenation of knowledge required to allow comic collectors the ability to spot things like colour touch, trimming, and pressed/cleaned comics will take a substantial amount of time.

 

I don't know for sure, but I'm leaning towards the possibility that some types of trimming, pressing, and cleaning will NEVER be detectable--or at least not during the viable lifespan of comics collecting as a marketable hobby. Particularly pressing--even if you can detect the fact that there used to be wrinkling, establishing whether it was intentionally reversed just doesn't seem possible. And I've always figured it would take a decade or two for people to put restoration into perspective; it's a complex topic and takes a while to sink in. And a decade or two is about how long it took in coins.

 

 

However, at the root of your theory is the allure that high-grade comics MAY be attained at lower prices -- similarily, the kind of allure which drove flocks of buyers to comic-keys -- a seller whose strict adherence to selling books raw on eBay, and whose anti-CGC position solidifiied in buyers minds the prospect of buying high-grade comics at much lower prices than their CGC'd counterparts.

 

That's a great observation that I can see coming to fruition, but not in any widespread way nor as a long-term trend. The greed and excessive profit behind those types of sales will ALWAYS tick people off once they figure out what has been done to them. I know the majority opinion doesn't hold this right now, nor is it likely to for the next decade or so, but cleaning and pressing is MUCH more acceptable than the other types.

[Rip]

Well, a pressed card will get nailed by grading companys like SGC.

So will cleaning. Overtime they have also developed into spilt grades.

Cards cut from sheets used to be ok, now some companys will have a problem with that idea.

[fantastic_four]

Well, a pressed card will get nailed by grading companys like SGC.

So will cleaning.

 

Can they only detect certain types of cleaning and pressing such as is true with comics?

[Rip]

I know they make mistakes like any grading company.

But its hard to make judgement calls and quantify things you can't see.

[fantastic_four]

I know they make mistakes like any grading company.

But its hard to make judgement calls and quantify things you can't see.

 

I wasn't sure whether the thicker paper stock on cards or the gloss made pressing more obvious.

 

So IS there any direct comparison between the effect that undetectable pressing/cleaning has had on cards and the effect that undetectable cleaning has had on coins? Is it frowned upon in cards like it is in comics, and has it had a significant negative impact on that market? The thing I have always heard kills the card market is the rampant fraud and overpopulation of certification companies.

[Rip]

Judging from what I have been reading they are struggling with some of the same problems as us right now. Trimming is the biggest problem with super thin trims that are getting harder and harder to detect in the mkt

 

Read this here is one thread of many examples.....

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=cards&Number=295003&Forum=c6&Words=trimming&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=294943&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post295003