I still say that we are headed for a split market.

[awe4one]

I agree with some of what you've said but you've also covered alot of ground.....

 

The comics hobby HAS developed sub-niches and sub-categories for certain collectors. Like it or not( and believe me, there seems to be more that do NOT like this) CGC is here to stay. The encapsulation market WILL be around. If CGC does not survive due to mismanagement, or otherwise unforeseen event(s), someone else WILL be encapsulating comics for many years to come.

 

Agreed. Like it or not slabbed comics are here to stay.

 

The naysayers don't seem to discuss much about the WHY CGC( and competitors) was created in the first place. There was too many grading disputes and color touches that actually harmed the Comic Book hobby. People stayed away because of the unpleasantness that lurked in the hobby. People got tired of getting ripped off by unscrupulous Dealers and the stories are too numerous to count and mention. CGC saw the niche and now provide the services they offer. I maintain my original position that CGC is one of the best things for this hobby and was sorely needed. Even if just for their restoration check, they are good for this hobby.

 

This is where we deviate. CGC was started as an extention of what has occurred in the card and coin hobbies. They saw money to be made plain and simple. I believe you're overstating the amount of people that stayed away. A large percentage of those that didn't enter the market are speculators that could care less about comics, or were burned in the early 90s, and card/coin collectors that wanted in on the market but needed some assurances on what they were buying.

 

Sure there have always been bad dealers but they weren't keeping people away in any numbers that would make a difference. In fact, CGC was catering to current collectors when they started....

 

Two things: If CGC, Mile High, coud not make any money for themselves, they would not provide the comics and/or services. People don't work for free. People engage in business enterprises with the intent to earn an honest living. I detest those who begrudge an honest person their chance to pursue their business enterprises as they are only trying to survive and provide for their families.

 

Two issues here....

 

MH gets slammed not because they sell comics. In fact, most here have stated their admiration of Chuck's business sense. The ill will comes from their high prices in relation to the current market and their bad grading reputation. Both of these is prime material to slam the company.

 

No one will begrudge CGC's right to earn a living either. But their effect on the comics market and questions on their procedures is perfectly reasonable topics for comic collectors, and this are their prime clientele, to engage in.

 

As Comics keep rising in value EVERY Year( except SPAWN - sorry Todd Mc F), there is a built-in mechanism of preserving Comics well into the next 100 years. Or more. This might be hard to appreciate as we won't be around, but there WILL be those around to enjoy them as long as they maintain monetary value.

 

Not sure this will be correct. If this hobby ever has a hard crash, the bulk of worthless comics will disappear. And that's the thing so many here have pointed out, their belief that comics are rising too fast too far in too short a timeframe. The faster the rise, the harder the fall scenario applies.

 

Good post Cal.....a little long but interesting viewpoint.

 

Jim

[read_em-migration]

More some other time.

 

You mean there's more?!

 

 

Rick

 

Oh, there's much, much more...

[drbanner]

More some other time.

 

You mean there's more?!

 

 

Rick

 

[Calamerica]

You mean there's more?!

 

 

 

Rick

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Oh, there's much, much more...

 

There is?

[Calamerica]

Not really.

[Calamerica]

Thanx for the kind words awe4one.

 

I gotta go right now but I will try to respond within the next few days.

 

Heading to bed, and instead of counting $$$ or other objects to sleep, I count those IRON MAN and SUB-MARINER # 1 1968 one-shots! See ya!

 

CAL

[read_em-migration]

You mean there's more?!

 

 

 

Rick

 

 

Oh, there's much, much more...

 

There is?

 

Oh, you're so cute when you play coy

[read_em-migration]

I agree with some of what you've said but you've also covered alot of ground.....

 

The comics hobby HAS developed sub-niches and sub-categories for certain collectors. Like it or not( and believe me, there seems to be more that do NOT like this) CGC is here to stay. The encapsulation market WILL be around. If CGC does not survive due to mismanagement, or otherwise unforeseen event(s), someone else WILL be encapsulating comics for many years to come.

 

Agreed. Like it or not slabbed comics are here to stay.

 

The naysayers don't seem to discuss much about the WHY CGC( and competitors) was created in the first place. There was too many grading disputes and color touches that actually harmed the Comic Book hobby. People stayed away because of the unpleasantness that lurked in the hobby. People got tired of getting ripped off by unscrupulous Dealers and the stories are too numerous to count and mention. CGC saw the niche and now provide the services they offer. I maintain my original position that CGC is one of the best things for this hobby and was sorely needed. Even if just for their restoration check, they are good for this hobby.

 

This is where we deviate. CGC was started as an extention of what has occurred in the card and coin hobbies. They saw money to be made plain and simple. I believe you're overstating the amount of people that stayed away. A large percentage of those that didn't enter the market are speculators that could care less about comics, or were burned in the early 90s, and card/coin collectors that wanted in on the market but needed some assurances on what they were buying.

 

Sure there have always been bad dealers but they weren't keeping people away in any numbers that would make a difference. In fact, CGC was catering to current collectors when they started....

 

Two things: If CGC, Mile High, coud not make any money for themselves, they would not provide the comics and/or services. People don't work for free. People engage in business enterprises with the intent to earn an honest living. I detest those who begrudge an honest person their chance to pursue their business enterprises as they are only trying to survive and provide for their families.

 

Two issues here....

 

MH gets slammed not because they sell comics. In fact, most here have stated their admiration of Chuck's business sense. The ill will comes from their high prices in relation to the current market and their bad grading reputation. Both of these is prime material to slam the company.

 

No one will begrudge CGC's right to earn a living either. But their effect on the comics market and questions on their procedures is perfectly reasonable topics for comic collectors, and this are their prime clientele, to engage in.

 

As Comics keep rising in value EVERY Year( except SPAWN - sorry Todd Mc F), there is a built-in mechanism of preserving Comics well into the next 100 years. Or more. This might be hard to appreciate as we won't be around, but there WILL be those around to enjoy them as long as they maintain monetary value.

 

Not sure this will be correct. If this hobby ever has a hard crash, the bulk of worthless comics will disappear. And that's the thing so many here have pointed out, their belief that comics are rising too fast too far in too short a timeframe. The faster the rise, the harder the fall scenario applies.

 

Good post Cal.....a little long but interesting viewpoint.

 

Jim

 

Good post yourself Jim! You make a lot more sense...

[Calamerica]

awe4One

 

I am back for a short stint and will try to do a good job here.

 

This is where we deviate. CGC was started as an extention of what has occurred in the card and coin hobbies. They saw money to be made plain and simple. I believe you're overstating the amount of people that stayed away. A large percentage of those that didn't enter the market are speculators that could care less about comics, or were burned in the early 90s, and card/coin collectors that wanted in on the market but needed some assurances on what they were buying.

 

Maybe you have a valid point re: the number of people staying away. CGC did start as an extension of the card/coins as you stated.

 

Sure there have always been bad dealers but they weren't keeping people away in any numbers that would make a difference.

 

I still maintain my position that the ones staying away because of the bad dealers/bad grading were still staying away. I just don't know a good approximation of the numbers of those staying away and perhaps due to that lack of hard numbers I should not have posted that. However, the CGC entrance in the field actually BROUGHT newer people in the hobby and a few older former comic collectors. I can state that wholeheartedly as I am one of the former comic collectors.

 

 

Two issues here....

 

MH gets slammed not because they sell comics. In fact, most here have stated their admiration of Chuck's business sense. The ill will comes from their high prices in relation to the current market and their bad grading reputation. Both of these is prime material to slam the company

 

I respect your opinion on this issue. BUT I must interject here that MY dealings with Mile High/Chuck R. have all been positive. On one occasion did I have to return comics because of a WIDE disparity of their grading and mine, and they did so without one word. I have been told that they don't normally take returns based on grading disagreements, but for some reason they have treated me very, very well.

 

No one will begrudge CGC's right to earn a living either. But their effect on the comics market and questions on their procedures is perfectly reasonable topics for comic collectors, and this are their prime clientele, to engage in

 

First let me state here I agree with your point here word for word. No question. However, not everyone thinks the way you just did here and I have seen it for myself that the "perfectly reasonable" CGC discussions turn into this "evil, greed-making vehicle attracting the speculator scum" and once that talk starts, it is a no-win situation. There are those out there that want the horses and never go forward with trains and cars. The same with comics. There are those who are so adamantly against CGC, CGG, 3PG, AGA, and anyone else who encapsulates, grades comics that they will go to great lenghts to cause grief and send viruses and whatever. A few are actually Forum Members and just can't wait for the next opportunity to pounce and be the do-gooders they think that they are with their mantra " free the comics: read 'em". CGC will never be accepted by them and if CGC would fail they would gloat like you never seen before. Yes, they gloat at others' misfortunes. Hey, they gloated at my misfortunes, what makes you think that they won't gloat at yours or anyone elses?

 

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As Comics keep rising in value EVERY Year( except SPAWN - sorry Todd Mc F), there is a built-in mechanism of preserving Comics well into the next 100 years. Or more. This might be hard to appreciate as we won't be around, but there WILL be those around to enjoy them as long as they maintain monetary value.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Not sure this will be correct. If this hobby ever has a hard crash, the bulk of worthless comics will disappear. And that's the thing so many here have pointed out, their belief that comics are rising too fast too far in too short a timeframe. The faster the rise, the harder the fall scenario applies

 

Yes, one cannot be sure that this will be or will not be correct. But my point was: preservation. I just don't see the bulk of worthless comics disappearing. It is my guess that they will be warehoused somewhere and although a few will be destroyed by accident, whatever, the majority of valued issues will find homes for many decades to come. It is hard to think of how people are going to be in the year 2400, but it sure would be fun to have one of those comics we now own. But my sentence is from a viewpoint of someone in the year 2004 and likes comics a lot. The people in 1930 did not foresee computers and email. Those Platinum comic books creators and fans did not forsee the Modern age of comics. What is it that we cannot foresee 75 years from now? They may not make comics AND books/mags as we know them to be now. There has been talk of everything being online. No more publishing hard books of any kind. If that were to happen, would comic books still be a "collectible" in the year 2400? I am willing to state here that yes, they will be. Worth thousands of dollars. Many more times the valuation that we have placed on comics now. Museums and Curators and other like-minded savers of history are going to preserve them somehow someway.

The fact that they will have monetary value will get the comics preserved by default. Why would people get rid of something that had monetary value?

 

Good post Cal.....a little long but interesting viewpoint.

 

I did not mean it to be so long and cover that much ground. Things just turned out that way. No harm done, I hope.

 

See ya next time Jim.

 

CAL