I have some major NOOB questions about comic bags.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Ok, one more thing. I just read EffEffBee's thread which I thought was very interesting.

 

He notes that the shiny side IS acid neutral. So where am I wrong here??

 

Here is a blurb I put together to explain to customers the differences in boards a while ago:

 

Most brick and mortar shops sell polypropylene bags and calcium carbonate coated boards which are only recommended for short term storage. BCW recommends replacing those materials every 3-5 years.

 

They recommend that, because the natural aging process in paper (both boards and comics for that matter) releases acids which cause yellowing, then browning and brittleness in paper. BCW and almost all other comic board manufacturers use a fairly inexpensive process to spray coat one side of a solid bleached sulfate board with a CaCO3 buffer. This provides an alkaline mat to place your comic atop, until the natural aging of the board itself releases enough acid to neutralize the thin layer of CaCO3.

 

For long term archival storage, only acid free boards that meet the US Government's MINIMUM requirements: "containing 3% calcium carbonate buffer THROUGHOUT" the board are acceptable. If your boards are labeled "Coated" or are "shiny" on one side, they do NOT meet this minimum requirement and although they are labeled "acid free", they are only acid free for a very short time after manufacture. Without an alkaline reserve throughout, the board soon contributes to the acidification of your comic. Several varieties of comic life extenders (BCW's) are simply thinner, spray coated boards.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I have been told for years by the people I bought this company from that our boards are acid nuetral. I dont have the chemistry in front of me, but he did say as long as the board has a ph balance of .08 or something like that, then it is considered acid neutral. The other manufacturers I have used said the same thing.

 

It may be when it comes off the press. The problem is that as the paper ages, it quickly neutralizes the small amount of CaCo3 sprayed on the board and becomes acidic throughout. And, it doesn't immediately get put behind a comic after it comes off the press....

 

 

 

Just saying this because if poly bags and boards were so bad, why would I sell millions of them a year?? They have to be working well for someone.

 

Because

1. Most comic collectors, are not educated on the pitfalls of standard coated backboards and it can take years to see the negative effects and most collectors would not know what to blame

2. They are cheaper and have a larger profit margin

3. They are the same kind of boards that people have "grown up with"

4. The vast majority of bags and boards are sold for collections that will only have sentimental value, rather than monetary value, so no one will really notice.

 

[mschmidt]

Ok, one more thing. I just read EffEffBee's thread which I thought was very interesting.

 

He notes that the shiny side IS acid neutral. So where am I wrong here??

 

Here is a blurb I put together to explain to customers the differences in boards a while ago:

 

Most brick and mortar shops sell polypropylene bags and calcium carbonate coated boards which are only recommended for short term storage. BCW recommends replacing those materials every 3-5 years.

 

They recommend that, because the natural aging process in paper (both boards and comics for that matter) releases acids which cause yellowing, then browning and brittleness in paper. BCW and almost all other comic board manufacturers use a fairly inexpensive process to spray coat one side of a solid bleached sulfate board with a CaCO3 buffer. This provides an alkaline mat to place your comic atop, until the natural aging of the board itself releases enough acid to neutralize the thin layer of CaCO3.

 

For long term archival storage, only acid free boards that meet the US Government's MINIMUM requirements: "containing 3% calcium carbonate buffer THROUGHOUT" the board are acceptable. If your boards are labeled "Coated" or are "shiny" on one side, they do NOT meet this minimum requirement and although they are labeled "acid free", they are only acid free for a very short time after manufacture. Without an alkaline reserve throughout, the board soon contributes to the acidification of your comic. Several varieties of comic life extenders (BCW's) are simply thinner, spray coated boards.

 

This should be in a "proper comic book storage" sticky :thumbsup:

[nocutename]

It's that time, I have to buy more comic boards. I hate how I run out of boards so much faster than bags. I have 200 comics in bags with no boards and still have bags left over

 

So I was going to just buy some boards but then I decided I might try some higher end bags while I was at it. I am looking at 2mil mylars and they look like regular bags to me. Are they made out of a hard crispy plastic? I thought they would be more like baseball card holders. I saw the archives and those look like what I thought a mylar was, but do they make them thick and firm like that but with a flap? I thought I had one but I must have put a book in it so it's in one of the 20+ boxes and I don't want to go looking for it

 

 

Here's some pit falls that I had with Mylites when I tried to switch over. I still don't really have a real solution to getting my BA or few SA comics in mylites.

 

I had purchased some mylites and halfbacks when Hotflips was having their sale. It was my first time using them and I am afraid of them. Seriously, you cannot tuck the flaps like I tried so you will need to use some form of tape/post it. They take up more room in the box so you may need to reorganize some of your collection.

 

The comics fit very snug in the bag and IMO I don't believe they are good for comics that you plan on pulling out of the bags often. There is alot of friction and I can now understand how those thumb creases get created at the top of some comics. You need to pull out the board with the comic. Because of the tighter fit and reorganization it takes time to switch over.

 

I purchased the size that is equal to a SA poly bag but you really cannot fit .20 centers in them. Although, I did at the time They are still in them because I am nervous pulling them out. If I remember correctly this is the largest size that fits into a normal comic box (at least the standard comic boxes that I own).

 

Once all is said and done, they will make a nice junky VG reader look like gold!

 

On the flip side, I have heard that if you are going to use polys, the best way to store your comics is bag only and use the boards on the outside of the bags to help reinforce them. I didn't elect to do this method when I was rebagging as I was afraid of getting spine ticks when I pulled them out for reading. But I too had purchased comics that were in bags for 30+ years all yellowed without any boards. The books are in great shape without any interior yellowing.

[JediTrix]

Here's some pit falls that I had with Mylites when I tried to switch over. I still don't really have a real solution to getting my BA or few SA comics in mylites.

 

I had purchased some mylites and halfbacks when Hotflips was having their sale. It was my first time using them and I am afraid of them. Seriously, you cannot tuck the flaps like I tried so you will need to use some form of tape/post it. They take up more room in the box so you may need to reorganize some of your collection.

 

The comics fit very snug in the bag and IMO I don't believe they are good for comics that you plan on pulling out of the bags often. There is alot of friction and I can now understand how those thumb creases get created at the top of some comics. You need to pull out the board with the comic. Because of the tighter fit and reorganization it takes time to switch over.

 

I purchased the size that is equal to a SA poly bag but you really cannot fit .20 centers in them. Although, I did at the time They are still in them because I am nervous pulling them out. If I remember correctly this is the largest size that fits into a normal comic box (at least the standard comic boxes that I own).

 

Once all is said and done, they will make a nice junky VG reader look like gold!

 

On the flip side, I have heard that if you are going to use polys, the best way to store your comics is bag only and use the boards on the outside of the bags to help reinforce them. I didn't elect to do this method when I was rebagging as I was afraid of getting spine ticks when I pulled them out for reading. But I too had purchased comics that were in bags for 30+ years all yellowed without any boards. The books are in great shape without any interior yellowing.

 

Mylites2 and halfbacks for all my books. (thumbs u

 

I use 'Standard' size for modern and 'Silver/Gold' for the SA/BA comics and am quite happy with the fit. It sounds like you are using 'Current' for modern and 'Standard' for SA/BA, which I agree is too tight.

 

I never buy fullbacks, I only buy halfbacks and just double on them when I feel a book deservers a fullback. Anyone else do this?

[Thermal]

Buy your stuff thru E. Gerber. Bill Cole is a rip off, way expensive. I use Mylites+, they are 1.4 mil and a good balance between the 1 & 2 mil bags. Shifted all of my 14,000+ books over. Took a few years but well worth it.

 

The M2s (2 mil) have become pretty much standard (sells a lot faster) and only costs 6.5% more than the 1.4 mil.

 

What has been your experience with the seams on the 1.4? Any splitting or tearing of the Mylar itself? Some of the 1 mil stuff (not sure who manufactured it, probably Cole) use to split, but I have never had any problems with the 2 mil.

 

The 1.4's are excellent, no problems with splitting or anything. 2 mils for me are a bit much but that is just my opinion. either way you cant go wrong with Gerber Mylar.

[HOTFLIPS]

Ok, one more thing. I just read EffEffBee's thread which I thought was very interesting.

 

He notes that the shiny side IS acid neutral. So where am I wrong here??

 

Here is a blurb I put together to explain to customers the differences in boards a while ago:

 

Most brick and mortar shops sell polypropylene bags and calcium carbonate coated boards which are only recommended for short term storage. BCW recommends replacing those materials every 3-5 years.

 

They recommend that, because the natural aging process in paper (both boards and comics for that matter) releases acids which cause yellowing, then browning and brittleness in paper. BCW and almost all other comic board manufacturers use a fairly inexpensive process to spray coat one side of a solid bleached sulfate board with a CaCO3 buffer. This provides an alkaline mat to place your comic atop, until the natural aging of the board itself releases enough acid to neutralize the thin layer of CaCO3.

 

For long term archival storage, only acid free boards that meet the US Government's MINIMUM requirements: "containing 3% calcium carbonate buffer THROUGHOUT" the board are acceptable. If your boards are labeled "Coated" or are "shiny" on one side, they do NOT meet this minimum requirement and although they are labeled "acid free", they are only acid free for a very short time after manufacture. Without an alkaline reserve throughout, the board soon contributes to the acidification of your comic. Several varieties of comic life extenders (BCW's) are simply thinner, spray coated boards.

 

I agree. I recommend changing every 3-5 years as well and I always reccommend Mylar for long term storage. I think the difference I am having, that maybe some of you arent understanding is that there are circumstances where regular bags and boards will NOT harm your books.

[HOTFLIPS]

I have been told for years by the people I bought this company from that our boards are acid nuetral. I dont have the chemistry in front of me, but he did say as long as the board has a ph balance of .08 or something like that, then it is considered acid neutral. The other manufacturers I have used said the same thing.

 

It may be when it comes off the press. The problem is that as the paper ages, it quickly neutralizes the small amount of CaCo3 sprayed on the board and becomes acidic throughout. And, it doesn't immediately get put behind a comic after it comes off the press....

 

 

 

Just saying this because if poly bags and boards were so bad, why would I sell millions of them a year?? They have to be working well for someone.

 

Because

1. Most comic collectors, are not educated on the pitfalls of standard coated backboards and it can take years to see the negative effects and most collectors would not know what to blame

2. They are cheaper and have a larger profit margin3. They are the same kind of boards that people have "grown up with"

4. The vast majority of bags and boards are sold for collections that will only have sentimental value, rather than monetary value, so no one will really notice.

 

For whom??

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I think the difference I am having, that maybe some of you arent understanding is that there are circumstances where regular bags and boards will NOT harm your books.

 

I will still tell them that if you use polybags and regular boards AND keep them in the right storage conditions as you would with Mylar, then you shouldnt have a problem either.

 

This is simply wrong.

 

Anecdotal evidence seems to support the premise that it is unlikely that a collector is going to damage their books with poly bags given proper storage conditions. However, that is simply not the case with regular boards, no matter the storage conditions. They will sooner or later turn acidic and cause damage to books. Heck, often they may be acidic by the time the collector puts them in the bag with his books.

 

Because acid takes years (less in elevated temperatures) to change a comic with White pages to Off-White pages to Cream pages, etc. does it mean that we should tell collectors that they shouldn't have a problem?

[HOTFLIPS]

Wow, so all the people who use regular bags and boards that have not had problems are wrong?? Ok, you stick to your story. I'll stick to proof from customers. Ciao.

[HOTFLIPS]

Whats funny is that I am not disagreeing with your proof. Other people have proof that contradicts what you say. Is it the minority?? Yes, but still proof nonetheless. Ok, now im done.

[Hepcat]

I use the mylite2s with full backboards and tape comes off easily

 

I suggest using the Removable Scotch Tape on Mylites. Regular Scotch Tape sticks so fiercly to Mylites that removing it can crinkle/damage the bag. Removable Scotch Tape also eliminates the possibility of accidently damaging a comic by contacting the comic with the tape.

 

[TupennyConan]

WTTB!

[mschmidt]

Whats funny is that I am not disagreeing with your proof. Other people have proof that contradicts what you say. Is it the minority?? Yes, but still proof nonetheless. Ok, now im done.

 

There is no proof that contradicts what grinin is saying.

 

Anyone with even a passing interest in conservation knows that unbuffered paper (where the acids haven't been neutralized or stabilized) will break down and off-gas over time. This is a pure, supported-by-hard-evidence, scientific fact.

[HOTFLIPS]

WoW. Only you guys can have proof and no else can. Now im done. Have a a happy and healthy new year!!

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Wow, so all the people who use regular bags and boards that have not had problems are wrong?? Ok, you stick to your story. I'll stick to proof from customers. Ciao.

Why would you think they have not had problems?

As I said before "The vast majority of bags and boards are sold for collections that will only have sentimental value, rather than monetary value, so this will never be an issue"

Also, the average collector will not recognize a minute drop in page quality, loss of gloss, dulling of color, etc. over time in their books. But add it up and it takes its toll.

And for the ones who do notice, they would not know what to blame it on anyway.

 

So, we are really only talking about a tiny percentage of the comic collecting community that this will make a difference too, that will notice it and will understand the root cause.

 

They do not have "proof". Chemistry isn't any different for them, than it is for you and me. Although "perception" for people ranges across the board.

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

Because I have customers that collect comics and, believe it or not, dont buy mylars because they have had no problems with regular bags and boards.

 

I can not say first hand that I saw there comics 20 years ago or now. I did buy a few comics from one of these people. Got them graded. And one came back a 9.8. Spidey Super Stories from 1975 I believe. Highest graded at least a couple of years ago. Could it be possible that this book could have been a 10.0 if it were in mylar?? Geez.

 

Another book was a 9.4 Spidey 129. That seems like proof to me.

 

For the record: After I bought the books, I switched them out of the poly bag and board and into a mylar and full-back for short term storage since I sent them off to be graded. (thumbs u

[mschmidt]

Which is like saying "I smoke and I don't have cancer, ergo there's no link between smoking & cancer".

 

Anecdotal evidence, like the examples you've produced, aren't proof of anything.

 

The chemical reaction that happens in paper as it ages can be measured & documented, and has been so extensively by institutions like the Library of Congress' Preservation department & the National Archives.

 

Joint Resolution to Establish a National Policy on Permanent Papers

 

Whereas it is now widely recognized and scientifically demonstrated that the acidic papers commonly used for more than a century in documents, books, and other publications are self-destructing and will continue to self destruct.

The Deterioration and Preservation of Paper: Some Essential Facts

 

[HOTFLIPS]

Ok done with this topic now. Have a happy new year.