Collecting vs. Speculating

[Speedy-D]

You really should try the Wanted to Buy section of the CGC forum....you'll probably get a CGC copy and not have to bend over for it. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

Good advice. GPA.com and a WTB thread are great ways to determine value and get reasonable deals. ebay is not.

 

Also, just poke around in the sales threads. I promise you, it'll have you drooling and lighten the load in your wallet.

[Walls]

You really should try the Wanted to Buy section of the CGC forum....you'll probably get a CGC copy and not have to bend over for it. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

Good advice. GPA.com and a WTB thread are great ways to determine value and get reasonable deals. ebay is not.

 

Also, just poke around in the sales threads. I promise you, it'll have you drooling and lighten the load in your wallet.

The material looks good but it goes quick. I haven't been quick enough to snag anything yet. I've tried the WTB board. Just purchased a good haul of books, but no good bites on an XMen 101 or Spiderman Platinum yet.

[Speedy-D]

You really should try the Wanted to Buy section of the CGC forum....you'll probably get a CGC copy and not have to bend over for it. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

Good advice. GPA.com and a WTB thread are great ways to determine value and get reasonable deals. ebay is not.

 

Also, just poke around in the sales threads. I promise you, it'll have you drooling and lighten the load in your wallet.

The material looks good but it goes quick. I haven't been quick enough to snag anything yet. I've tried the WTB board. Just purchased a good haul of books, but no good bites on an XMen 101 or Spiderman Platinum yet.

I see X-Men 101s around pretty frequently. I'm sure you'll get one.

[Walls]

It's a great community and I'm sure something will shake out to.

 

Dave

[dupont2005]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

Did you mean to say # 180 and # 181? Because Wolverine is in the entire issue of # 181 and fights The Hulk and Wendigo, and in # 182 he appears in like 2 panels and he's running away.

 

Even if you meant #180/#181, that's still wrong.

I said 181 is worth more than 182. This is correct, isn't it?

 

Yes, #181 costs more than #182, but not because of speculation.

Sure it is.

[Speedy-D]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

Did you mean to say # 180 and # 181? Because Wolverine is in the entire issue of # 181 and fights The Hulk and Wendigo, and in # 182 he appears in like 2 panels and he's running away.

 

Even if you meant #180/#181, that's still wrong.

I said 181 is worth more than 182. This is correct, isn't it?

 

Yes, #181 costs more than #182, but not because of speculation.

Sure it is.

Well, it's worth more because it's considered the first appearance of Wolverine. High grade copies are worth tons and tons and tons more because people speculate that they're a good investment.

[MR SigS]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

Did you mean to say # 180 and # 181? Because Wolverine is in the entire issue of # 181 and fights The Hulk and Wendigo, and in # 182 he appears in like 2 panels and he's running away.

 

Even if you meant #180/#181, that's still wrong.

I said 181 is worth more than 182. This is correct, isn't it?

 

Yes, #181 costs more than #182, but not because of speculation.

Sure it is.

Maybe the rest of us aren't quite getting what you mean. How can #181 be worth more than #182 because of speculation rather than Wolverine's 1st full appearance and his battle with Hulk?

[dupont2005]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

Did you mean to say # 180 and # 181? Because Wolverine is in the entire issue of # 181 and fights The Hulk and Wendigo, and in # 182 he appears in like 2 panels and he's running away.

 

Even if you meant #180/#181, that's still wrong.

I said 181 is worth more than 182. This is correct, isn't it?

 

Yes, #181 costs more than #182, but not because of speculation.

Sure it is.

Maybe the rest of us aren't quite getting what you mean. How can #181 be worth more than #182 because of speculation rather than Wolverine's 1st full appearance and his battle with Hulk?

Is the print run lower? Is the story particularly good? Was the production cost higher? Was it instantly worth more?

 

Years later when Wolverine became a popular character some wise investors bought them all up due to speculating the first appearance of a popular character. People don't spend thousands of dollars on a comic that has since been reprinted because they want to read the story. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, but people but Hulk 181's because of the collectible value, which exists because of speculation.

[jimjum12]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

Did you mean to say # 180 and # 181? Because Wolverine is in the entire issue of # 181 and fights The Hulk and Wendigo, and in # 182 he appears in like 2 panels and he's running away.

 

Even if you meant #180/#181, that's still wrong.

I said 181 is worth more than 182. This is correct, isn't it?

 

Yes, #181 costs more than #182, but not because of speculation.

Sure it is.

Maybe the rest of us aren't quite getting what you mean. How can #181 be worth more than #182 because of speculation rather than Wolverine's 1st full appearance and his battle with Hulk?

Is the print run lower? Is the story particularly good? Was the production cost higher? Was it instantly worth more?

 

Years later when Wolverine became a popular character some wise investors bought them all up due to speculating the first appearance of a popular character. People don't spend thousands of dollars on a comic that has since been reprinted because they want to read the story. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, but people but Hulk 181's because of the collectible value, which exists because of speculation.

 

Speculation is certainly a Market Spectre....it skews things. So is rarity. I remember when I was younger....I saw Stunt Man # 1, a very difficult Kirby comic, in the OSPG. I was captivated and mystified. The book has since been reprinted in more than one place, with the exception of the "Duke of Broadway" story, mediocre at best, and yet I still want one. A strange affliction indeed that befalls we collectors. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

Years later when Wolverine became a popular character some wise investors bought them all up due to speculating the first appearance of a popular character. People don't spend thousands of dollars on a comic that has since been reprinted because they want to read the story. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, but people but Hulk 181's because of the collectible value, which exists because of speculation.

 

Your argument leaves out the possibility that some people buy Hulk 181 because they're collectors and they actually really want the issue. It's his first cover and first full appearance, that's what's driving it, not speculation. The demand is real--this cover is ROCKIN', terrific battle scene, one of the absolute best key cover issues in comics history.

 

[MR SigS]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

Did you mean to say # 180 and # 181? Because Wolverine is in the entire issue of # 181 and fights The Hulk and Wendigo, and in # 182 he appears in like 2 panels and he's running away.

 

Even if you meant #180/#181, that's still wrong.

I said 181 is worth more than 182. This is correct, isn't it?

 

Yes, #181 costs more than #182, but not because of speculation.

Sure it is.

Maybe the rest of us aren't quite getting what you mean. How can #181 be worth more than #182 because of speculation rather than Wolverine's 1st full appearance and his battle with Hulk?

Is the print run lower? Is the story particularly good? Was the production cost higher? Was it instantly worth more?

 

Years later when Wolverine became a popular character some wise investors bought them all up due to speculating the first appearance of a popular character. People don't spend thousands of dollars on a comic that has since been reprinted because they want to read the story. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, but people but Hulk 181's because of the collectible value, which exists because of speculation.

OK, I can see your point when you say it that way. Back then it can be seen as speculation, which of course set the stage for todays prices. Good "arguement" (thumbs u

[dupont2005]

Years later when Wolverine became a popular character some wise investors bought them all up due to speculating the first appearance of a popular character. People don't spend thousands of dollars on a comic that has since been reprinted because they want to read the story. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, but people but Hulk 181's because of the collectible value, which exists because of speculation.

 

Your argument leaves out the possibility that some people buy Hulk 181 because they're collectors and they actually really want the issue. It's his first cover and first full appearance, that's what's driving it, not speculation. The demand is real--this cover is ROCKIN', terrific battle scene.

 

Well of course that's true too, but there are lots of cool covers out there and neat stories. There is definitely countless reasons to want to own one, but I believe the reason the prices of that particular issue reach higher prices than the surrounding issues is due to speculation. Competing with investors in eBay auctions and competing with hoarders in the bins and so on. If a collector who pays no regard to the value of it wants it and has the money they can get it too but they will have to pay the investment price for it.

[tth2]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

I guess an example of my experience is this. I've been looking for a copy of House of Mystery 300. I was searching on the web to get an idea of how much I should spend and noticed that a copy went for $27 back in December here on the site. I checked a couple of prices guides and see that 9.6 graded is priced for $36. I figure the market for HOM is depressed and not alot of buyers. So I look on ebay and there's a copy; however, the buyer has it for $59 graded 9.6. So from December to May the price for the book has gone up by over $32 or $23 depending on how you look at it. The seller may have very well bought it back in December and then flipped and drastically increased the price.

 

I guess you could say that the supply is low but the seller is not allowing the resources to float against real demand in this case....

 

 

What a seller asks for a book is never indicative of the market.

 

What he gets for the book is.

(thumbs u

Right, but a lot of ebay sellers are not allowing the real market to set the price. They set the price high and lock it and then they wait for some person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point like me to get tired of waiting and eventually buy the book for $50 (in this case). Plus, I imagine this creates froth/frenzy when an auction copy comes up and all the pent up buyers looking for a real priced book go after it.

 

Another eBay example. I've been thinking to purchase a copy of Xmen 101. I look at the completed sales on eBay and notice that the 9.6 and above are a bit more expensive than I want to pay. I notice a 9.4 that expired at $275 and didn't complete the sale. I figure the price is around there for a 9.4. I look for another 9.4 on eBay but all of the copies are locked at $350. One guy has a "make an offer" option. I low ball it at $250 and expect we'll meet somewhere around 270-280. The guy won't go below $320. Says he bought it a month ago at 300 and needs to make a profit. I understand some people treat it as a business but it kind of seems like people are preying on folks that participate in the hobby.

It might be possible to "lock up" a scarce book or a book that`s scarce in a certain grade. That does happen, and more power to the owner. If he was smart or lucky enough to acquire it, then he`s entitled to sell it only at his price, whether it`s realistic or not. I don`t think anyone has the responsibility to sell books just for the sake of maintaining liquidity in the marketplace.

 

In contrast, I don`t think anyone can lock up common books like HOM 300 or X-Men 101. If someone sets unrealistic prices for those kinds of books, just wait and sooner or later you`ll get a chance to buy a copy at a more realistic price.

[mycomicshop]

Sounds like the discussion has wound down into a disagreement about the meaning of "speculation." To me, speculation involves a forward-looking expectation about shifts in the market price. If somebody thinks that a product is currently under-valued or over-valued, and acts accordingly so that he will make money if his expectations prove correct--that's speculation. So speculation is mainly relevant when something's market price hasn't been clearly established, or when somebody has reason to believe that the previously established market price will soon shift (like in the run-up to a popular movie).

 

Something like Hulk 181--the price has been well established over the years. It may move up or down some over time, but that's a result of supply versus demand, rather than investors thinking that Hulk 181 is about to experience some big shift in pricing. So I don't see speculation being a significant contributor to the price.

[Doohickamabob]

fantastic_four.... Your signature graphic.... That's just not right. I can't read anything when that is on the screen. (P.S. Who is that and where is a link to more?)

[yoink-migration]

Sounds like the discussion has wound down into a disagreement about the meaning of "speculation." To me, speculation involves a forward-looking expectation about shifts in the market price. If somebody thinks that a product is currently under-valued or over-valued, and acts accordingly so that he will make money if his expectations prove correct--that's speculation. So speculation is mainly relevant when something's market price hasn't been clearly established, or when somebody has reason to believe that the previously established market price will soon shift (like in the run-up to a popular movie).

 

Something like Hulk 181--the price has been well established over the years. It may move up or down some over time, but that's a result of supply versus demand, rather than investors thinking that Hulk 181 is about to experience some big shift in pricing. So I don't see speculation being a significant contributor to the price.

 

 

I think what Dupont would like to discuss is the philosophical argument as to why any comic would be worth more than any other comic in the first place. Plus he hates mainstream comics.

[Walls]

Years later when Wolverine became a popular character some wise investors bought them all up due to speculating the first appearance of a popular character. People don't spend thousands of dollars on a comic that has since been reprinted because they want to read the story. Not that it's a bad thing or anything, but people but Hulk 181's because of the collectible value, which exists because of speculation.

 

Your argument leaves out the possibility that some people buy Hulk 181 because they're collectors and they actually really want the issue. It's his first cover and first full appearance, that's what's driving it, not speculation. The demand is real--this cover is ROCKIN', terrific battle scene, one of the absolute best key cover issues in comics history.

 

Exactly, I think collectors kind of get the short end of the stick because we're buying to hold and not buying to flip. Collectors buy and hold, they don't buy then imediately add a x dollar premium and put it back out for sale attempting to make a hefty profit. Eventually we sell but we sell because we lose interest (at least in my case).

 

On the other hand, I suppose if there wasn't a speculator market the availability of specific issues at any price might be less or non-existent....

 

Regardless, it is frustrating when you're trying to obtain issues for collecting.

[Walls]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

I guess an example of my experience is this. I've been looking for a copy of House of Mystery 300. I was searching on the web to get an idea of how much I should spend and noticed that a copy went for $27 back in December here on the site. I checked a couple of prices guides and see that 9.6 graded is priced for $36. I figure the market for HOM is depressed and not alot of buyers. So I look on ebay and there's a copy; however, the buyer has it for $59 graded 9.6. So from December to May the price for the book has gone up by over $32 or $23 depending on how you look at it. The seller may have very well bought it back in December and then flipped and drastically increased the price.

 

I guess you could say that the supply is low but the seller is not allowing the resources to float against real demand in this case....

 

 

What a seller asks for a book is never indicative of the market.

 

What he gets for the book is.

(thumbs u

Right, but a lot of ebay sellers are not allowing the real market to set the price. They set the price high and lock it and then they wait for some person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point like me to get tired of waiting and eventually buy the book for $50 (in this case). Plus, I imagine this creates froth/frenzy when an auction copy comes up and all the pent up buyers looking for a real priced book go after it.

 

Another eBay example. I've been thinking to purchase a copy of Xmen 101. I look at the completed sales on eBay and notice that the 9.6 and above are a bit more expensive than I want to pay. I notice a 9.4 that expired at $275 and didn't complete the sale. I figure the price is around there for a 9.4. I look for another 9.4 on eBay but all of the copies are locked at $350. One guy has a "make an offer" option. I low ball it at $250 and expect we'll meet somewhere around 270-280. The guy won't go below $320. Says he bought it a month ago at 300 and needs to make a profit. I understand some people treat it as a business but it kind of seems like people are preying on folks that participate in the hobby.

It might be possible to "lock up" a scarce book or a book that`s scarce in a certain grade. That does happen, and more power to the owner. If he was smart or lucky enough to acquire it, then he`s entitled to sell it only at his price, whether it`s realistic or not. I don`t think anyone has the responsibility to sell books just for the sake of maintaining liquidity in the marketplace.

 

In contrast, I don`t think anyone can lock up common books like HOM 300 or X-Men 101. If someone sets unrealistic prices for those kinds of books, just wait and sooner or later you`ll get a chance to buy a copy at a more realistic price.

 

You're right, I guess it's not a true lock but it seems like all prices gravitate towards the highest price listed for a given item. There are far more issues on eBay being sold as "Buy it Now" ($350 for 9.4 CGC X-men 101) then true auctions.

 

[fantastic_four]

fantastic_four.... Your signature graphic.... That's just not right. I can't read anything when that is on the screen. (P.S. Who is that and where is a link to more?)

 

No idea who it is, but the Internet is a cornucopia of stuff like that, it's all just a Google search away. She's waaaaaaay too big for practicality, yet quite compelling to watch since her body and face are cute.

[tth2]

Of course speculation is why Hulk 181 is worth more than Hulk 182.

 

I guess an example of my experience is this. I've been looking for a copy of House of Mystery 300. I was searching on the web to get an idea of how much I should spend and noticed that a copy went for $27 back in December here on the site. I checked a couple of prices guides and see that 9.6 graded is priced for $36. I figure the market for HOM is depressed and not alot of buyers. So I look on ebay and there's a copy; however, the buyer has it for $59 graded 9.6. So from December to May the price for the book has gone up by over $32 or $23 depending on how you look at it. The seller may have very well bought it back in December and then flipped and drastically increased the price.

 

I guess you could say that the supply is low but the seller is not allowing the resources to float against real demand in this case....

 

 

What a seller asks for a book is never indicative of the market.

 

What he gets for the book is.

(thumbs u

Right, but a lot of ebay sellers are not allowing the real market to set the price. They set the price high and lock it and then they wait for some person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point like me to get tired of waiting and eventually buy the book for $50 (in this case). Plus, I imagine this creates froth/frenzy when an auction copy comes up and all the pent up buyers looking for a real priced book go after it.

 

Another eBay example. I've been thinking to purchase a copy of Xmen 101. I look at the completed sales on eBay and notice that the 9.6 and above are a bit more expensive than I want to pay. I notice a 9.4 that expired at $275 and didn't complete the sale. I figure the price is around there for a 9.4. I look for another 9.4 on eBay but all of the copies are locked at $350. One guy has a "make an offer" option. I low ball it at $250 and expect we'll meet somewhere around 270-280. The guy won't go below $320. Says he bought it a month ago at 300 and needs to make a profit. I understand some people treat it as a business but it kind of seems like people are preying on folks that participate in the hobby.

It might be possible to "lock up" a scarce book or a book that`s scarce in a certain grade. That does happen, and more power to the owner. If he was smart or lucky enough to acquire it, then he`s entitled to sell it only at his price, whether it`s realistic or not. I don`t think anyone has the responsibility to sell books just for the sake of maintaining liquidity in the marketplace.

 

In contrast, I don`t think anyone can lock up common books like HOM 300 or X-Men 101. If someone sets unrealistic prices for those kinds of books, just wait and sooner or later you`ll get a chance to buy a copy at a more realistic price.

 

You're right, I guess it's not a true lock but it seems like all prices gravitate towards the highest price listed for a given item. There are far more issues on eBay being sold as "Buy it Now" ($350 for 9.4 CGC X-men 101) then true auctions.

I would just disregard the eBay fixed price listings. Most of them have no relationship to reality and are more like shop window displays designed to bring in the occasional sucker or a collector such as yourself who finally loses patience.

 

Go to the various dealer sites and auctions to get a better handle on what books go for. Believe me, there is no shortage of X-Men 101s out there. In fact, go to the WTB forum in the Marketplace and post the grades you want for a X-Men 101 and HOM 300 and the price you`re willing to pay, and so long as your price is reasonable I`m sure you will get some offers.