Can you remove a color touch?

[VintageComics]

Arex, you have brought up everything I have wanted to talk about and more and I want to thank you for the opportunity to clear the air. It's a sensitive situation to discuss since Nik has passed but since you have let the genie out of the bottle I guess it's only appropriate to reply.

 

Thank you. And I mean that.

 

 

Give me a few minutes to type up a reply...

[VintageComics]

Id rather be an A+ dink with passive aggressive tendencies than a cheat, liar, and a moral relativist that how he views situations depends on how much money he can make off it. Exhibit A is your choice to disclose here but not eBay.

 

As far as the topic of pressing, it's a heated topic on this forum.

 

I chose to disclose pressing on this forum because as a community it was what a large percentage of people wanted. The choice to disclose pressing here but not on eBay is a business model that many, if not most national dealers use, even those who belong to this very forum. I have sold 1000's of books over the years and have been asked maybe 2-3 times ever if a book was pressed and I openly disclosed whether they were or not.

 

Most people that buy books from me know about pressing and don't care.

 

The disclosure of pressing is a topic that is constantly evolving. 4 years ago many people against pressing thought pressing was unethical. Now many of those same people believe that pressing simply should be disclosed. There was a time when your gang didn't disclose pressing either, even though they pressed everything they could get their hands on. EVERYTHING. Eventually, everyone sees the "Marnin Rosenberg light" where for one reason (financial) or another pressing needs to be disclosed. It's so easy to judge other people once you've seen the light though, right?

 

Where was anything I said cryptic? I laid out very well what I thought.

I would bet a dollar to a box of donuts that Im not the only one who has the same ideas about you and your shifting ethics. I am also sure that there are people here who feel the same about me. And I am cool with that. But what others think about you, or me to be fair, doesnt matter. Not in this context.

 

My ethics have never shifted. I have been open and honest with every person about every sale that I have ever made. I carry myself with integrity and pride myself on my honesty. We have all made mistakes, but my mistakes were never a result of deceit on my part. From the time that I walked into a police station 20 years ago to confess my every law breaking event (around the time that I had my first child) to this day, I have never stolen, cheated, lied or defrauded anyone. Louise and I have prided ourselves on our "no white lie" policy since we met 5 years ago. If someone mistakenly gives me a $5 bill and I unknowingly walk away with it, I'll return it. In fact I have done just that. I believe in doing good to receive good and that is how I live my life.

 

Let me touch on some of your points from the next paragraph.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

So, the next con you and I are at, would you prefer for me to walk up and tell you what I think of you

 

It would take a real man to talk to someone face to face before you talk about them everywhere else and behind their backs. It says a lot about a person, the way they handle gossip. You have never talked to me face to face about your problems with me. Neither has Watson (correction, Watson and i had once conversation and then he reneged). Neither has anyone from your gang...well, I'll take that back...a few of your friends have and guess what? They are friends of mine, or as close to friends of mine as they can be based on a relationship that revolves around the internet and meeting at cons most of the time.

 

But you and your posse just continue to talk behind the scenes and stew and spill your venom on here from time to time and just make things awkward for everyone.

 

Talking to someone before you talk about them works really well. It's in the life rule book. You should try it some time.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

making the CT dissapear and then claiming it was a bindery chip?

 

I bought a book with a "bindery chip" that was coloured in. I tore off a piece of paper and called it a "bindery chip" again. I had no intention of deceiving anyone. Remember, I've been here for 7 years and have seen how flame wars start. I knew the book would be spotted immediately upon posting it on eBay so that alone would be enough deterrent for me to lie, but i didn't lie. I simply described it the way I did because

 

a) it was a chip before it was coloured

b) it was a chip after it the colour touch was removed

c) because I believed a missing piece that was clearly shown, pointed out and a well graded book should be enough. It wasn't important to me why the piece was missing.

 

Regardless, I realized that I had made a mistake after being alerted by a friend about it, changed my description in my own obstinate way, and the book did sell and go to a board member who knew the entire history of the book and didn't care one hoot.

 

Or about how you screwed Nik on the Avengers 57?

 

This is a very special one and deserves a post to itself.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Or about how you screwed Nik on the Avengers 57?

 

I think this is a big one, and a tough one to deal with because Nik is no longer here to answer for himself. It's also going to be really long, but above all, I think it's important for people to know that I had already discussed this in full detail with Nik, with several of his closest friends and have shown the Private Messages to all of those that wanted to see them (while Nik was still alive) with all the details below written in there so there are no real surprises.

 

To start the story I think it's fair to say that Nik and I had a misunderstanding, and it became a amplified as most things do when money is involved between friends. It never fails to screw things up, it seems.

 

As many of you have already heard and read, Nik was a good friend of mine and the guy that brought me to the boards. We had plenty of PMs between us through the years, bought and sold many books between us and enjoyed each other's company at conventions.

 

In roughly October, 2008 Nik posted an Avengers #57 CGC 9.6 for sale on the boards. I was looking to buy the book to try and resell it and make a few bucks. Because I was at Benz working at the time, their firewall wouldn't let me see scans so I quickly sent Nik a PM asking him to email me scans before I pulled the trigger.

 

I pride myself on being upfront and hate being lied to myself, so after a few back and forth posts about scans and the centring of the book, I asked Nik what his best price for the book was and told him openly that it was for a flip. There was absolutely no intimation that the book was for my personal collection. I was exclusively an X-men collector when I joined the boards and I assumed that everything was cool on both our ends.

 

Nik and I agreed on a price (it was $2800 + a $150 Thor comic i had for sale at the time) and we finalized the deal. Nik wanted Paypal, I offered either a direct bank wire or a US cheque because I didn't have any funds on Paypal.

 

Nik OK'd the cheque via regular mail and within a day or two I mailed out the cheque and the comic separately.

 

In the mean time, I asked Nik if the book could be mailed directly to Comiclink to make the auction the following Friday. Nik agreed that it wouldn't be a problem.

 

The book arrives at Comiclink and the auction starts a week later, and within two days the price of the book was over $6000.

 

Now you have to understand that I had no idea the price would reach that height. I was expecting maybe $4000 tops because of the white pages. In fact, I was so sure that the book was a borderline bust that Josh even had to talk me out of setting a reserve at $3400 (my break even point).

 

Well, the book ended at $7600, and in some way I wanted to make a gesture towards Nik when I saw him in person for selling me the book. I figured I would see him at a show soon as I was embarking on more and more shows on the east coast.

 

I believe it was the end of October when we sealed the deal, it was a November auction and I likely would have been paid sometime late in December for the book.

 

Some time in December I believe, about a month or 1.5 months after the deal, the discussion came up again about the Avengers #57, only this time Doc Watson, Bob Storms and I don't know who else where tearing me a new arsehole.

 

It turns out that stories were circulating and I had no idea what was being said behind my back.

 

As far as I was concerned based on my email exchange with Nik, everything was cool. There was no intimation of a negative transaction, I paid Nik as agreed, and everything was on the up and up.

 

That's why I was surprised at being labelled as untrustworthy and all kinds of other stuff that I found extremely upsetting.

 

By the time I was in NYC 02-2011 (3 months after the auction of the book) I had heard many variations of the story that was circulating with nobody actually talking to me about it. Keep in mind that there is a PM exchange of the entire transaction and it was seen by many of Nik's friends. I heard false stuff like:

 

a) I told Nik the book was for my personal collection

b) I paid Nik after I got paid by Comiclink

c) I ripped Nik off. etc etc.

 

This was all news to me and I had no idea what was brewing.

 

It started to get really bad for me and some of you that were here at that time might remember all sorts of things going on between me and Nik's friends.

 

It actually got to the point where I was getting sent PMs telling me that if I had showed up at certain forum dinners that people would get up and walk out.

People stopped doing business with me over the Nik deal.

 

It was crushing, and still, I did not have a full picture of what was going on.

 

It affected my personal life, my family life and my business.

 

I went back to Nik several times to clear the air, and in return I got responses from Nik like "time will heal", "we're good" and "I've told my friends that everything has passed" but never got a straight answer as to what had happened.

 

I went on to spend much of the past two years being reactive and trying to explain what had happened whenever it came up in conversations. It was all i could do since nobody would really share any details.

 

It's only recently that I have been able to put together the entire picture and see what had happened

 

I spoke to a very close friend of Nik's recently, who told me Nik's recollection of what had happened.

 

To make a long story short, Nik had somehow thought the book was for me personally. I don't know how, and I don't know why. Life is busy and sometimes things are perceived even though they are not spelled out. If it seemed that I had led Nik up the garden path to smell the roses, it was not my intention. my intentions, as far as I, and Louise and anybody that had read my PMs, were as upfront and honest as they could have been. Unfortunately, It put a great strain on the relationship between Nik and I and we spent the next few months trying to mend it.

 

We PMd in the back ground, I asked him to clear a few things up with his friends as they came up (via the same PM that the deal was inked with) and in the end when Nik passed away, the story passed away with him.

 

I never did see Nik again after 2008. We only spoke via PM. He never made it again to a show where I was attending.

 

It was this misunderstanding that I believe is at the root of much of the tempest that the boards have had to experience over the past two years.

 

When Nik's charity auction came around I put in a $2500+ bid on a $300 comic book in order to pay my respects to Nik and give back to him, or at the very least to his family, since it was the only thing left that I could do.

 

To this day, I still get asked about the deal with Nik.

 

Above is a short form version of what had transpired over the past 2 years as far as my dealings with Nik.

 

If anyone has any questions or comments, I'd be happy to hear them

 

[skypinkblu]

I must be tired, because I am not going to bite my tongue...

 

 

I'd REALLY like to hear a paragraph about the Hitler thing...I missed that one...

 

[JTD]

If Nik sent it to Comiclink how would he think it was for your personal collection?

[mikenyc]

If Nik sent it to Comiclink how would he think it was for your personal collection?

 

+1

[skypinkblu]

Could you clarify one thing, Roy...because I have heard the story...

 

What was the grade that Nik gave the book when he listed it in the forum...and what was the grade that it was listed as on Clink?

 

and if it was different, did you ever have the book in hand?

[VintageComics]

Could you clarify one thing, Roy...because I have heard the story...

 

What was the grade that Nik gave the book when he listed it in the forum...and what was the grade that it was listed as on Clink?

 

and if it was different, did you ever have the book in hand?

 

Sharon,

 

It went from Nik, directly to Comiclink and was listed as an Avengers #57 CGC 9.6 in both Nik's sales thread and on the Comiclink auction.

 

I never held the book in hand.

 

Why do you ask?

[skypinkblu]

Could you clarify one thing, Roy...because I have heard the story...

 

What was the grade that Nik gave the book when he listed it in the forum...and what was the grade that it was listed as on Clink?

 

and if it was different, did you ever have the book in hand?

 

Sharon,

 

It went from Nik, directly to Comiclink and was listed as an Avengers #57 CGC 9.6 in both Nik's sales thread and on the Comiclink auction.

 

I never held the book in hand.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Because that was not what I was told, so that was why I asked.

[VintageComics]

If Nik sent it to Comiclink how would he think it was for your personal collection?

 

+1

 

It is possible that for some reason, maybe with the urgency that I was trying to seal the deal before someone else popped the BIN, that the thought crossed Nik's mind (before I asked him to ship it, as there are a lot of PM's in that discussion) and this is what I meant by leading him up the garden path.

 

I want to be clear that I never once intimated, leaned towards or implied that it was for my person collection though. When it came time to hammer out a price I was upfront and honest that it was for a flip.

 

As far as I was concerned, I was straightforward about the whole deal. That's why I was so surprised at the backlash.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Could you clarify one thing, Roy...because I have heard the story...

 

What was the grade that Nik gave the book when he listed it in the forum...and what was the grade that it was listed as on Clink?

 

and if it was different, did you ever have the book in hand?

 

Sharon,

 

It went from Nik, directly to Comiclink and was listed as an Avengers #57 CGC 9.6 in both Nik's sales thread and on the Comiclink auction.

 

I never held the book in hand.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Because that was not what I was told, so that was why I asked.

 

Wow. Another variation to the story. Can you see how frustrating this is?

 

Sharon, I'm not sure if it's appropriate or not at this stage, but I would be happy to show you the PM exchange that shows that the book was a CGC 9.6, that Nik mailed the book directly to Comiclink for me and that I confirmed that they had received it.

 

This is a link to the sales thread where I bought the book from:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2686478Post2686478

 

This is a photobucket thumbnail from my Comiclink account showing the sale of the book:

 

 

Pretty clear that it's the same book.

[MCJ]

Metro has a JIM 83 9.2 SA with small color touch and glue on spine...

 

I'm guessing only Pro (small) color touch can be removed ?

 

This is tempting, but that it's amateur restoration and "glue on cover" (not necessarily on the spine--shudder) makes me shy away, as it's probably too extensive or otherwise irreversible:

 

http://www.metropoliscomics.com/load_bookDetails.php?id=414254&set=0

 

A slight professional restored 9.2 copy of JIM #83 sold for $12,500 in 2008, so someone might pick this up, but I doubt they'd attempt to remove the restoration.

 

Unfortunately, that could mean Dupcak or bijoubaby will crack it and represent it as a few grades higher than it actually is...

 

Case in point, the slight professional restored copy of JIM #85 9.2 that sat on Comiclink for six months appears to have a new life as: "Journey Into Mystery #85 Vol 1 Grade 9.6 No Reserve!"

 

The PLOD 9.2 copy of #85 apparently went unsold after 6 months on ComicLink, even though it was only listed for $3000. I flirted with the idea of buying that one and having the color touch removed, but that would have been a risky proposition.

 

Well, I think I know where the restored 9.2 copy of #85 went: The infamous bijoubaby appears to have cracked the slab and is now marketing it as a 9.6 on eBay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120737557453&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_500wt_1020

 

I like this disclaimer:

 

"Returns are accepted if I've significantly misrepresented the item."

 

Representing a PLOD 9.2 as an admittedly color touched 9.6 counts, doesn't it? Sigh. I applaud those of you (trmoore54 for example) that proactively buy the PLODs to keep them out of the hands of sellers like this one.

 

I sent this message via eBay:

 

"This appears to be the same color touched 9.2 that went unsold on Comiclink. Will you include the CGC label for the buyer, to maintain the accuracy of the census?

 

The auction title is misleading, to say the least. You might want to change it to mention it's a PLOD..."

 

bijoubaby's response:

 

 

I already mention that there is color touch on the cover in the auction's description so I don't need to change anything.

- bijoubaby05

 

He doesn't deny the copy's origin. If a few people begin to believe the listing, this could get ugly...He might get away with it.

[JTD]

To make a long story short, Nik had somehow thought the book was for me personally. I don't know how, and I don't know why. Life is busy and sometimes things are perceived even though they are not spelled out. If it seemed that I had led Nik up the garden path to smell the roses, it was not my intention. my intentions, as far as I, and Louise and anybody that had read my PMs, were as upfront and honest as they could have been. Unfortunately, It put a great strain on the relationship between Nik and I and we spent the next few months trying to mend it.

 

 

 

I did not know Nik and I don't know you, but how could Nik possibly think it was anything other than a flip. Maybe I am missing something?

 

 

[VintageComics]

I did not know Nik and I don't know you, but how could Nik possibly think it was anything other than a flip. Maybe I am missing something?

 

 

That is the $7600 dollar question.

 

I also heard people talking about me editing my PMs. I did no such thing, and given the nature of the PMs (very involved, very lengthy, very detailed) it would be impossible to do.

 

I did show the PMs to a few boardies early in 2009 before I even knew what people were really upset about (so before I would know what to "edit" into them had it been my intention which it was not) and they agreed that it all seemed straight forward.

 

The same things keeps getting asked with no answer.

 

[mikenyc]

My

 

You will never win. The situation involves an extremely well regarded member who tragically passed away. It is now unfortunately a one sided argument and if you show PMs you will be accused of tampering or if you relay the events you will be accused of lying.

 

Clearly I know nothing of what happened but it is obvious that these boards are split into factions. Certain members will disparage other members when given the opportunity and it seems to be the lay of the land.

 

As a collector my reputation means very little. Think I'm a douchnozzle or think I'm funny everyone is willing to accept my money. As a seller the attitudes and behavior of other members can certainly impact your business.

 

Lastly please take care of your Olive Garden bill as it is affecting your street cred around here.

[VintageComics]

My

 

You will never win. The situation involves an extremely well regarded member who tragically passed away. It is now unfortunately a one sided argument and if you show PMs you will be accused of tampering or if you relay the events you will be accused of lying.

 

Clearly I know nothing of what happened but it is obvious that these boards are split into factions. Certain members will disparage other members when given the opportunity and it seems to be the lay of the land.

 

As a collector my reputation means very little. Think I'm a douchnozzle or think I'm funny everyone is willing to accept my money. As a seller the attitudes and behavior of other members can certainly impact your business.

 

Lastly please take care of your Olive Garden bill as it is affecting your street cred around here.

 

I don't want to "win" and I wasn't looking to bring it up and discuss it. It's already been discussed in detail between Nik and I, his friends as it was happening, and others who approached me on it.

 

I've been carrying "my side" for nearly 3 years and it's been a tough 3 years at that. You just never know what stories are out there.

 

If it gets mentioned, as it did in Arex's post, I will share my side of the story in as truthful a manner as is possible by me because it is my integrity that is being questioned in an open manner.

 

(thumbs u

[Bomber-Bob]

Roy, having no previous knowledge of any of this I did a little research of old

posts, GPA etc.

I saw a post where Brian (Foolkiller) was commenting about the 'cheap' price

Nik had the book listed for (3K). Nik replied it was a fair price that someone could make a little profit on if so desired.

GPA verifies Nik's comment as the book was selling in the 3 - 4K range. This also validates your comments that you thought it would sell at best 4K.

Apparently the 7600 realized price shocked many on the Boards and there was speculation it was bought for it's potential. Sure enough a 9.8 showed up shortly on Clink.

From what I can ascertain I believe your view of the events. This was an early incident of a big price paid for potential and simply shocked many people. If this happened today, outside of some comments, it would be more accepted.

[VintageComics]

Roy, having no previous knowledge of any of this I did a little research of old

posts, GPA etc.

I saw a post where Brian (Foolkiller) was commenting about the 'cheap' price

Nik had the book listed for (3K). Nik replied it was a fair price that someone could make a little profit on if so desired.

GPA verifies Nik's comment as the book was selling in the 3 - 4K range. This also validates your comments that you thought it would sell at best 4K.

Apparently the 7600 realized price shocked many on the Boards and there was speculation it was bought for it's potential. Sure enough a 9.8 showed up shortly on Clink.

From what I can ascertain I believe your view of the events. This was an early incident of a big price paid for potential and simply shocked many people. If this happened today, outside of some comments, it would be more accepted.

 

Thanks, Bob. I think you are right in that it was one of those early books to break GPA by a large amount that it really took everyone by surprise.

 

The 9.8 that showed up soon after on Comiclink was what started the discussion on these boards about whether it was Nik's book or not that sold to me (and where the conversation went publicly ugly for the first time). It wasn't Nik's book through. I believe it was the Rocky Mountain copy that was the first 9.8.

 

I didn't bother to think about pressing my copy because Nik had already said that it was pressed up into a 9.6.

 

It is possible that it went for $7600 because someone else thought it had potential.

 

 

[mikenyc]

It also begs the question; must you, when in the process of negotiation, disclose your reason for purchasing a book. It is laughable to assume that any dealer on these boards, tells the seller of a book they are buying, that they will be getting more money when they resell it than they are paying.

 

If the book is sold to Roy for 50% of asking price because the seller believes it is the Grail of all Grails and will allow you to finally live in happiness that is one thing. If a book has an asking price of $3,000 and the negotiated price is $2,800, a 7% discount, I don't see the relevancy of accusing Roy of stating the book was to be kept in his collection.