Are there that many 9.9 and 10.0 out there?

[RS]

The first page is just 9.9 and 10.0 CGC's

[texasknight]

Why vote.. Just ask Valiantman !!!!

He can probably give you an exact % as of the last update to the CGC stats

[sterlingcomics]

Why vote.. Just ask Valiantman !!!!

He can probably give you an exact % as of the last update to the CGC stats

 

Exactly--he is the official CGC statistician...

[s-man]

$649.95 for Superman/Batman issue that JUST came out!!!??

 

If anyone buys it for that price...they need to be committed somewhere with rubber walls....

[rob_react]

$649.95 for Superman/Batman issue that JUST came out!!!??

 

If anyone buys it for that price...they need to be committed somewhere with rubber walls....

 

What you collect is stupid, what I collect is cool.

[s-man]

What you collect is stupid, what I collect is cool.

 

[rob_react]

Some people like modern books above all else and they like to buy 9.9s and 10.0s. To them it doesn't matter if it just came out. It takes all kinds.

[s-man]

Some people like modern books above all else and they like to buy 9.9s and 10.0s. To them it doesn't matter if it just came out. It takes all kinds.

 

I agree with your

[FFB]

Rob,

 

I am usually similarly irritated with those who say that so-and-so is stupid to pay $X for such-and-such book. But when it comes to a seller asking $750 for five 9.9 (not even 10.0) copies of books that are less than two months old, I don't have a problem with someone calling bullsh!t. It's one thing to say that a book that someone collects is stupid; it's another thing entirely to voice shock and surprise at a retailer who thinks that brand new books that are "relatively" plentiful in 9.9 condition (compared to 10.0s which regularly command "stupid" prices even for issues like U.S. 1) should pull $750. If someone pays it, fine, that's their money. But wow, that seems like a real waste. It would be cheaper to buy 50 copies of each book from a comic store at cover price. You'd be virtually guaranteed to get at least one 9.9 of each, and you'd probably have a few 9.8s in there as well. If it were five 10.0s, I still wouldn't personally spend that much money for those books, but at least then I could understand that there are plenty of 10.0 hounds out there who shell out that kind of cash for five new books. Are 9.9s really just as rare? I didn't think so.

 

$649.95 for Superman/Batman issue that JUST came out!!!??

 

If anyone buys it for that price...they need to be committed somewhere with rubber walls....

 

What you collect is stupid, what I collect is cool.

[Silver Surfer]

Would explain why turnaround times are so slow. Retailers must be flooding CGC with boxes of new issues.

[Aman619]

actually, I agree but not entirely. If you bought 50 copies off the store shelves you WOULD NOT be assured of getting a 9.9 or 10 because of the handling defects they go through.

 

BUT, thats not to say I agree with the absurd prices people pay for 9.9s and 10s. Theyre not "that easy" to come by, but are currently ridiculously overvalued nonetheless!! Thode who buy them now will be sorry they jumped too soon..

[FFB]

If you bought 50 of each and had your LCS owner leave them in the box for you, you would have a much better chance of getting 9.9s and maybe even a 10.0. You are right about shelfwear though. I haven't seen a non-squarebound or deluxe format book on the shelf yet that I'd give a 9.9 or 10.0.

 

actually, I agree but not entirely. If you bought 50 copies off the store shelves you WOULD NOT be assured of getting a 9.9 or 10 because of the handling defects they go through.

 

BUT, thats not to say I agree with the absurd prices people pay for 9.9s and 10s. Theyre not "that easy" to come by, but are currently ridiculously overvalued nonetheless!! Thode who buy them now will be sorry they jumped too soon..

[rob_react]

Rob,

 

I am usually similarly irritated with those who say that so-and-so is stupid to pay $X for such-and-such book. But when it comes to a seller asking $750 for five 9.9 (not even 10.0) copies of books that are less than two months old, I don't have a problem with someone calling bullsh!t. It's one thing to say that a book that someone collects is stupid; it's another thing entirely to voice shock and surprise at a retailer who thinks that brand new books that are "relatively" plentiful in 9.9 condition (compared to 10.0s which regularly command "stupid" prices even for issues like U.S. 1) should pull $750. If someone pays it, fine, that's their money. But wow, that seems like a real waste. It would be cheaper to buy 50 copies of each book from a comic store at cover price. You'd be virtually guaranteed to get at least one 9.9 of each, and you'd probably have a few 9.8s in there as well. If it were five 10.0s, I still wouldn't personally spend that much money for those books, but at least then I could understand that there are plenty of 10.0 hounds out there who shell out that kind of cash for five new books. Are 9.9s really just as rare? I didn't think so.

 

A few points... for starters, I don't think these prices are "sane" or "good" or whatever. Far from it. That's not my point. My point is, in general, I hate to see collectors make fun of other collectors for simply enjoying another part of the hobby. I don't think spending $15,000+ on a Hulk 181 is a "prudent" thing to do, but I don't go out of my way to insult the guy for doing it either.

 

In specific I just don't see what's so crazy about these books. Turner's Godfall series has been the hottest set of books on the planet over the past month, so asking $125-150 per book for 9.9s seems like typical modern submit and flip action to me. Would I pay it? No. Ditto for the MT 10.0 Superman/Batman #8. That was the top selling book last month and will probably ride a wave of heat for a good long while (1st Turner/ Re-Intro Supergirl.) If Turner sticks around the DCU for a while you could probably buy that book and flip it for a profit. Is that something I would do or suggest that people do as a sound course of action? No. But I also understand that there are people that see things differently than I do, so I don't feel the need to lash out at them for doing what they're doing...

 

As for everyone pointing out how old these books are... I guess you guys never sold new books. New books typically SPIKE within the first few months. Waiting until the book is "old enough" to be aggressive with pricing usually means you never get that price. Sometimes you lose out when a book has real legs, but for the most part the heaviest and best trading is done in the first couple of months.

 

As for the hypothetical... we're talking about 5 different 9.9s. So you'd have to buy 50 of each @112.50. Once you added grading fees it'd be a wash.

 

Again, I'm not saying to run out and buy 9.9s and 10.0 moderns, I just want to add some perspective to the discussion. Actually I just wanted to add some discussion to the discussion since most of the time these threads are just "bash the modern collector."

 

That's all.

[justiceleaguer]

Rob,

 

I am usually similarly irritated with those who say that so-and-so is stupid to pay $X for such-and-such book. But when it comes to a seller asking $750 for five 9.9 (not even 10.0) copies of books that are less than two months old, I don't have a problem with someone calling bullsh!t. It's one thing to say that a book that someone collects is stupid; it's another thing entirely to voice shock and surprise at a retailer who thinks that brand new books that are "relatively" plentiful in 9.9 condition (compared to 10.0s which regularly command "stupid" prices even for issues like U.S. 1) should pull $750. If someone pays it, fine, that's their money. But wow, that seems like a real waste. It would be cheaper to buy 50 copies of each book from a comic store at cover price. You'd be virtually guaranteed to get at least one 9.9 of each, and you'd probably have a few 9.8s in there as well. If it were five 10.0s, I still wouldn't personally spend that much money for those books, but at least then I could understand that there are plenty of 10.0 hounds out there who shell out that kind of cash for five new books. Are 9.9s really just as rare? I didn't think so.

 

A few points... for starters, I don't think these prices are "sane" or "good" or whatever. Far from it. That's not my point. My point is, in general, I hate to see collectors make fun of other collectors for simply enjoying another part of the hobby. I don't think spending $15,000+ on a Hulk 181 is a "prudent" thing to do, but I don't go out of my way to insult the guy for doing it either.

 

In specific I just don't see what's so crazy about these books. Turner's Godfall series has been the hottest set of books on the planet over the past month, so asking $125-150 per book for 9.9s seems like typical modern submit and flip action to me. Would I pay it? No. Ditto for the MT 10.0 Superman/Batman #8. That was the top selling book last month and will probably ride a wave of heat for a good long while (1st Turner/ Re-Intro Supergirl.) If Turner sticks around the DCU for a while you could probably buy that book and flip it for a profit. Is that something I would do or suggest that people do as a sound course of action? No. But I also understand that there are people that see things differently than I do, so I don't feel the need to lash out at them for doing what they're doing...

 

As for everyone pointing out how old these books are... I guess you guys never sold new books. New books typically SPIKE within the first few months. Waiting until the book is "old enough" to be aggressive with pricing usually means you never get that price. Sometimes you lose out when a book has real legs, but for the most part the heaviest and best trading is done in the first couple of months.

 

As for the hypothetical... we're talking about 5 different 9.9s. So you'd have to buy 50 of each @112.50. Once you added grading fees it'd be a wash.

 

Again, I'm not saying to run out and buy 9.9s and 10.0 moderns, I just want to add some perspective to the discussion. Actually I just wanted to add some discussion to the discussion since most of the time these threads are just "bash the modern collector."

 

That's all.

 

 

BASH!!!BASH!!!BASH!!!

[CKB]

Since valiantman seems to be occupied at the moment (probably counting his copies of Unity 0 Red; 11...12...13... ) his statistics list the following:

 

submissions: 395,353

10.0's: 436

9.9's: 2070

 

Add them up and that's 0.63% of all books submitted are 9.9's or 10's. Less than one per hundred.

 

Census numbers as of 3/02/2004.

[FFB]

True, but a lot of the books submitted are not moderns.

 

Since valiantman seems to be occupied at the moment (probably counting his copies of Unity 0 Red; 11...12...13... ) his statistics list the following:

 

submissions: 395,353

10.0's: 436

9.9's: 2070

 

Add them up and that's 0.63% of all books submitted are 9.9's or 10's. Less then one per hundred.

 

Census numbers as of 3/02/2004.

[valiantman]

It's going to be tough to estimate the 9.9 and 10.0 ratios for new comics...

Mainly because dealers are using the pre-screening process so regularly.

 

Some percentage of CGC pre-screened books did not reach the minimum grade.

Some percentage of books were not even pre-screened because they did not

reach the minimum standards of the person submitting them.

(Why pay $3 for a pre-screen on an obviously less than perfect copy?)

 

So... we don't know what percentage of brand new books are 9.9 or 10.0...

but the current ratio of CGC 9.9 and 10.0 on books that WERE CGC graded is...

 

Using Books With Cover Dates of 2003 or 2004

CGC 9.9 (or better) - 453 out of 18,084 CGC graded books = 2.5% (1 in 40)

CGC 10.0 - 92 out of 18,084 CGC graded books = 0.5% (1 in 200)

 

Does Lighthouse or Darthdiesel have any estimates on CGC 9.8 out of 100 raw books?

(How many out of 100 would get a CGC 9.8 using their own pre-screening and CGC?)

[Darthdiesel]

There is no set ratio... it all depends on whther the mass submitter does his own prescreening or if he lets CGC do it for him... obviously, if one takes time and care and submitting only the cream of the crop...you'd get a higher ration of 9.8s out of a 100 books submitted.. I think lighthouse in his batch of 1602's #5 and on had something close to a 94% ratio of 9.8 and higher...

[valiantman]

There is no set ratio... it all depends on whther the mass submitter does his own prescreening or if he lets CGC do it for him... obviously, if one takes time and care and submitting only the cream of the crop...you'd get a higher ration of 9.8s out of a 100 books submitted.. I think lighthouse in his batch of 1602's #5 and on had something close to a 94% ratio of 9.8 and higher...

 

Yep, I agree with this...

 

I was wondering if you could "guesstimate" how many books

out of every 100 that YOU look at are even worth submitting?

How would you say that 100 brand new books would generally break out...?

(1) 10

(2) 9.9

(40) 9.8

(40) 9.6

(15) 9.4

(2) 9.2 or lower

(These are examples... I'm wondering what you think...)

 

For lighthouse's 94% ratio of 9.8 and higher... was that 94% of the ones he submitted?

So, how many did he leave behind?

 

We're trying to get an idea of what percentage of books would be 9.8 or higher,

specifically 9.9 or 10.0, out of all the brand new books in print...

even those that aren't worth submitting count as being "in print".

[lighthouse]

For lighthouse's 94% ratio of 9.8 and higher... was that 94% of the ones he submitted?

So, how many did he leave behind?

 

Lots and lots and lots...

 

Yes, for that batch it was 94% of the books I submitted. When I do my own prescreen, I aim for 85-90% passing, I don't submit very many books that I think are borderline. For the most part, I won't submit a book unless I think it has a shot at 9.9...

 

Quality control is all over the place. Three examples:

 

I ordered 25 copies of Punisher 1.

I sent 16 to CGC because there were 16 I felt had a chance at 9.9.

Fourteen received 9.8 and one received a 10.

56% at 9.8, 4% at 10

 

I ordered 65 copies of Swamp Thing 1

I sent 6 copies to CGC. Four of them I felt had a chance at 9.9. The other two didn't, but were the next best available.

All six made 9.8, but I personally question one of them.

9.2% at 9.8

 

I ordered 75 copies of Conan 1

I didn't send a single copy to CGC because none of them met my own prescreen.

I purchased an additional 45 copies from a fellow dealer, and submitted the best 5 of those (as they didn't have the specific flaw that all of mine had)

Three of the five made 9.8.

2.5% at 9.8

 

If you can project a trend from outliers like those, more power to you...

 

My own personal guess would be that around 15% of all books leave Diamond's Sparta warehouse in 9.8 or better. Of those, a significant percentage are damaged by poor handling en route to the retailer. Another significant percentage are damaged by poor handling by the retailer. But even that original 15% isn't static. Some books may be 60%+ in 9.8, and some books will be below 5%. I don't even think a 9.8 is possible for early issues of Clockmaker...