Post your Overstreet Surprises...

[Aman619]

sure there are!

its just that we call Mint books "VFs" nowadays!!

[FFB]

The Mile High copy is a 9.2, according to Metro.

 

They used to call it the Overpriced guide because they couldn't imagine anybody in their right mind who would pay $300.00 for a Mint copy of Action Comics #1.

Since there's not an Action #1 higher than 8.5 on the census...

It sounds like people were debating something that didn't happen anyway.

(Unless there are lots of "secret raw mint" copies out there...)

[goldust40]

Well I picked up the guide yesterday (the HC, as they withstand wear and tear much better). Many of the big changes have been in HG S.A. Marvel books (mainly non- or lesser keys) that were generally considered to be undervalued in the marketplace prior to the new OS. Now it seems that some of the books are priced accurately, if not overvalued:

 

A few examples:

 

ASM 50: OS 33 - $650 in 9.4. OS 34 - $900 in 9.2.

Avengers 9: OS 33 - $285 in 9.4. OS 34 - $400 in 9.2.

Daredevil 7: OS 33 - $400 in 9.4. OS 34 - $800 in 9.2. (big jump, there).

Fantastic Four 31-40: OS 33 - $140 in 9.4. OS 34 - $250 in 9.2.

J.I.M. 91,92,94,96: OS 33 - $225 in 9.4. OS 34 - 400 in 9.2.

T.O.S. 49: OS 33 - $325 in 9.4. OS 34 - $800 in 9.2. (another big jump).

 

I suppose my concern is whether dealers adjust their multiples on such books due to these prices being so much closer to actual market value (except for the J.I.M.s, which are very tough in 9.2 and up).

 

I've already seen so many overgraded raw S.A. books at Conventions priced at double OS or higher due to the effect that CGC has had on the market, and the genuine lack of true HG books available. Bob and OS have not taken into account the fact that a lot of these prices are unattainable in raw due to the lack of confidence in ebay and Con dealers grading (whether they're accurate or not). He has, however, assented to the notion that the market for HG S.A. is driven almost entirely by encapsulated comics.

 

These price rises could be seen as either an attempt to bolster the market (which is unnecessary, and could lead to the JC effect of ever spiralling multiples followed by TGC if the rises are taken by many as a literal sign of burgeoning market growth). Said rises, coupled with the across the board column change from 9.4 to 9.2, effectively overvalues most raw 9.2 post '66 Marvels, and other publishers.

 

It may be true that prices for most key HG early S.A. and later S.A. Marvels have made more modest rises, but the other big change (relegating the top column from 9.4 to 9.2) means that OS has begun to cede matters to the big players. Collectors like a yardstick or a precedent, even if it's unrealistic. Now there is no yardstick.

 

In the meantime, I'll use the 9.2 column for raw 9.4 S.A. books, and GPA for the CGC HG stuff.

[tth2]

Now it seems that some of the books are priced accurately, if not overvalued:

 

A few examples:

 

Daredevil 7: OS 33 - $400 in 9.4. OS 34 - $800 in 9.2. (big jump, there).

 

Even after the big jumps here, pricing still doesn't reflect reality. DD 7 in CGC 9.4 is a $4000+ book, minimum. So even assuming that $800 is for a raw 9.2, and assuming that CGC 9.4 books will continue to be worth approximately 2X of a CGC 9.2 book, then a CGC 9.2 copy of DD 7 would go for close to $2000, representing a still significant multiple to the raw 9.2 price. You listed only the new JIM 90s prices, not the 80s prices, which I'm more familiar with, but my guess is that even with big jumps the Guide still doesn't come close to matching real world prices.

 

Collectors like a yardstick or a precedent, even if it's unrealistic. Now there is no yardstick.

 

This is temporary. People will soon figure out a new formula for multiples based on the Guide's new 9.2 prices. When CGC first became prevalent, prices were all over the place with no connection to the Guide, and then settled into a rough formula of CGC 9.0 = 1X OS 9.4, CGC 9.2 = 1.5-2X OS 9.4, CGC 9.4 = 3-4X OS 9.4 and CGC 9.6 = 5-6X OS 9.4 (CGC 9.8 and above continued to define any specific formulations), which got adjusted down for some books and up for some books.

 

I would guess that within 6 months or so, and maybe sooner thanks to GPA, there will be sufficient data for people to figure out the new pricing formulas that will emerge. I think that sellers mechanically applying the old formulas and trying to get 4X of the new OS 9.2 prices for a CGC 9.4 book will get a rude shock. The next few months will be very interesting, particularly for big splashy big-ticket high grade books!

[goldust40]

tth2, I agree that DD 7 was not a good example (although it's now accurately priced at 9.0 in the new OS). However the gulf between 9.2 and 9.4 should never be underestimated.

[drbanner]

In the meantime, I'll use the 9.2 column for raw 9.4 S.A. books, and GPA for the CGC HG stuff.

 

That's exactly what I'm going to do as well, with the exception of applying the 9.2 column to ALL 9.4 books that aren't worth slabbing (SA, BA, and modern). I've typically priced NM- copies at 75% of NM, so I guess that now I'll have to knock 25% off the top end prices for those as well.

 

GPA and comicsheet ARE the price guide for expensive, HG slabbed copies. I haven't looked it up, but I wonder how the 9.2 prices in OS compare to GPA for pre-1964 Marvels?

[Paul_Maul]

hey Paul... let me be the first to WELCOME YOU TO THE BOARDS!!!

 

Thanks man! I have been collecting seriously for 12 years, 6 years on ebay, and somehow I only now figured out that these forums exist!

[Paul_Maul]

That's exactly what I'm going to do as well, with the exception of applying the 9.2 column to ALL 9.4 books that aren't worth slabbing (SA, BA, and modern). I've typically priced NM- copies at 75% of NM, so I guess that now I'll have to knock 25% off the top end prices for those as well.

 

As a regular Doc Banner customer, all I can say is:

 

SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!

[awe4one]

I've typically priced NM- copies at 75% of NM, so I guess that now I'll have to knock 25% off the top end prices for those as well.

 

 

Jim

[BassGMan]

When you guys are looking to buy a book are you looking to buy it at "fair" market prices (according to OS, GPA, or whatever) or are you only willing to buy the book if you can find it undervalued? Me personally? I will NEVER buy a book for what I believe is the FMV. If I can't get lucky enough to find it at a pretty huge discount I won't buy it at all. Sure I'll pay over guide for a "cheapo" book if I just like the cover or whatever but for any book valued over $25 or so by any measure there is no way that I would pay over maybe 60% of FMV. That is why I NEVER buy slabbed books. And certainly I can find these values raw and then slab 'em myself.

 

For me, this is always the right way to go. Yeah, I've been burned a few times with a "slight color touch" or some other problem here and there with a raw book, but overall buying raw at HUGE discounts is by far the overall best strategy for me for coming out ahead. -----Sid

[Paul_Maul]

I will NEVER buy a book for what I believe is the FMV. If I can't get lucky enough to find it at a pretty huge discount I won't buy it at all.

 

This used to be my philosophy back in the pre-ebay and CGC days. It was pretty much a certainty when buying at shows and through CBG that you could negotiate pretty successfully.

 

I find myself paying at least full market value if not OVER more and more these days, because a.) maybe I am not as resourceful as you, but finding really nice raw books is becoming extremely tough; when I DO I don't feel as if I'm in a position to haggle much, and b.) when it comes to runs I am nearly finished on,

many of which I got in the old days at bargain prices, I feel like paying high for the last few I need is not so painful.

 

For example, I purchased a near-perfect unread group of X-Men 95-140 in 1993

off RACM for 60% of guide. I will probably end up paying more for the 4 remaining

issues I still need than I did for all the others, but that's life in 2004.

[THE_BEYONDER]

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS!!!

[sfilosa]

I will NEVER buy a book for what I believe is the FMV. If I can't get lucky enough to find it at a pretty huge discount I won't buy it at all. Sure I'll pay over guide for a "cheapo" book if I just like the cover or whatever but for any book valued over $25 or so by any measure there is no way that I would pay over maybe 60% of FMV. That is why I NEVER buy slabbed books. And certainly I can find these values raw and then slab 'em myself.

 

I will buy CGC books for FMV, if they are books that are impossible to find.

 

I also look for bargains on slabbed books that are either:

 

1) Clearly below FMV (based on GPAnalysis)

2) Titles that the supply of high-grade copies coming to market is much less than other more popular titles.

[BassGMan]

I understand what you are saying Paul but if you spend enough time scouring Ebay you can find these great deals that I am talking about. I often check the items just listed for any quick Buy It Now purchases where I have found many great deals before others even knew they were listed. Plus I have ended up buying many small to large lots including some books that I did not want in order to pick up the books within the lot that I did want. Of course the unwanted books can be sold cheaply and I can turnaround the good ones individually for a nice profit after slabbing. I guess you could call me a small-time flipper but I also keep much of what I buy. But in buying these lots and then reselling the key books, I am able to finance the purchase of all the books that I am keeping as well as pay for my trips to Wondercon coming up next weekend and many other things. And except for picking up some raw books at cons that I can get slabbed, I would say that 90% of my deals are through Ebay with outstanding success and profit. But, again I have to say that I have also been burned in doing this. However, the positive experiences far outweight the negatives. -----Sid

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Here's a surprise....the surging price hikes in the new Guide allowing me to buy early slabbed FFs from BlazingBob at BELOW NEW GUIDE!

 

Does anyone else remember when this was easily a $400 book (about 18 months ago)?

 

And on eBay no less...with no one to bid against me...shocking, I tell you.

 

FF 55 CGC 9.2

[supapimp]

date stamp haters

[namisgr]

Here's a surprise....the surging price hikes in the new Guide allowing me to buy early slabbed FFs from BlazingBob at BELOW NEW GUIDE!

 

Does anyone else remember when this was easily a $400 book (about 18 months ago)?

 

And on eBay no less...with no one to bid against me...shocking, I tell you.

 

FF 55 CGC 9.2

 

By any measure, you got a great buy on a classic book.

 

After having grown used to valuing in part 9.0 - 9.6 CGC books based on multiple of guide, the new guide has forced a new approach. Frankly, I continue to use last year's guide and the old multiples, but additionally I have devised a new set of multiples for the new 9.2 column: cgc 9.0 at two-thirds, 9.2 at 1.25X and 9.4 at 2.5X. According to my old "system", the FF 55 in 9.2 checks in at $270 (2X old guide), and in my new "system" at $250 (1.25X new guide).

 

Confusing, isn't it?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Confusing, isn't it?

 

You're not an accountant or anything, are you?

 

And Pimpy, I've seen badly miswrapped, cream to off-white paged 9.2 copies of this book still sell for $350-$400 in mid to late 2002...so I don't think the date stamp is the sole reason.

 

Maybe I just got lucky...perhaps I should go see if my luck holds with my cute new neighbor.

[fantastic_four]

date stamp haters

 

That's why I skipped it

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

That's why I skipped it

 

Thanks James!