Does CGC have the moral responsiblity of keeping records of their work?

[Rocketeer]

Ok,..the issue of pressing is never going to go away,..and frankly I don't give a dump whether a book is pressed or not,..what does get me infuriated is watching the same high grade books get pumped up bigger and bigger each year,...it's obscene that someone can buy a book for 25K and a month later sell it as a better book for 50k,...

 

...CGC started this circus and I feel they have a responsibility to the hobby to control it,....so why can't CGC books come with a statement of ownership?...like a title or a deed,...and when it gets sold the title changes hands and CGC gets updated of the sale,...call me crazy but I would like to know the history of a book I just paid thousands of dollars for,...is it fool proof?...no, but it's a start,...at least it would give buyers the advantage of deciding if they want to buy a high priced book based on it's history,...of decide not to because of it's lack of history,...

 

...think about when you buy a luxary used car,...most come with a complete history of service and repair,..would you buy a 50K used Mercedes without a log record?,..

 

[Boozad]

If that happened then books wouldn''t be cracked, pressed and regraded in the hope of a grade bump which would ultimately lose CGC money on submission fees. Why on earth would they do that?

[USArmyParatrooper]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

[Rocketeer]

because as a non partial third party grader whose determination of a grade on a book that ultimately decides the price of a sale of a book I feel that they have a moral obligation to stand behind their work,...and I hope you were being sarcastic,...

[Rocketeer]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

 

...and that book would have an open past,...and that would reflect the price of that book on the open market,...given the choice would you buy a NM with a complete history for 5k of one without it?....

[Boozad]

because as a non partial third party grader whose determination of a grade on a book that ultimately decides the price of a sale of a book I feel that they have a moral obligation to stand behind their work,...and I hope you were being sarcastic,...

 

But that's all they are selling, a third party impartial opinion of grade and a resto check. Nothing more. And why would they hand out certificates with books saying 'Pressed three times' knowing it could possibly hurt future business?

[Rocketeer]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

 

...and that book would have an open past,...and that would reflect the price of that book on the open market,...given the choice would you buy a NM with a complete history for 5k of one without it?....and not for all books,...just books over a certain $ amount,...they do charge arbitrary prices for grading book of high value don't they?...are they providing any extra service on these books?..no,..so why can't they incorporate a owners record into the process?

[USArmyParatrooper]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

 

...and that book would have an open past,...and that would reflect the price of that book on the open market,...given the choice would you buy a NM with a complete history for 5k of one without it?....

 

How can CGC possibly know who has owned a comic in the past?

[Rocketeer]

because as a non partial third party grader whose determination of a grade on a book that ultimately decides the price of a sale of a book I feel that they have a moral obligation to stand behind their work,...and I hope you were being sarcastic,...

 

But that's all they are selling, a third party impartial opinion of grade and a resto check. Nothing more. And why would they hand out certificates with books saying 'Pressed three times' knowing it could possibly hurt future business?

 

because their grades determine the market value of the book,..without CGC we would never have been in the position that we are now,...they created the opportunity for this to happen,..they should be held accountable for what they have done,...what have they done in the last 10 years to improve the hobby?...nothing,...what have they done in the last 10 years to line the pockets of the comic mafia?...everything,...this is a loaded deck and it always has been

 

..this is like saying why should the oil companies have to clean up oil spills?...they didn't intend for their tankers to leak

[Rocketeer]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

 

...and that book would have an open past,...and that would reflect the price of that book on the open market,...given the choice would you buy a NM with a complete history for 5k of one without it?....

 

How can CGC possibly know who has owned a comic in the past?

 

they can't that's the whole point,..however a new submission would have the original owner's name,..and I know that anyone can sub a book for someone else,...but again you would have the choice of buying a book that has no recorded past,...you take the risk,...and I'm not talking about the average book,...I'm talking about books that have 1 thousand dollar value or more,...

[Diamond-Age-Comic-migratio]

Im with Rocketeer u're the cool guy that post vids on YT right?

[Rocketeer]

. And why would they hand out certificates with books saying 'Pressed three times' knowing it could possibly hurt future business?

 

...I don't know?...maybe cause a non partial third party is supposed to be honest and forthright?...or do only dealers have right?

[COI]

because as a non partial third party grader whose determination of a grade on a book that ultimately decides the price of a sale of a book I feel that they have a moral obligation to stand behind their work,...and I hope you were being sarcastic,...

 

But that's all they are selling, a third party impartial opinion of grade and a resto check. Nothing more. And why would they hand out certificates with books saying 'Pressed three times' knowing it could possibly hurt future business?

 

because their grades determine the market value of the book,..without CGC we would never have been in the position that we are now,...they created the opportunity for this to happen,..they should be held accountable for what they have done,...what have they done in the last 10 years to improve the hobby?...nothing,...what have they done in the last 10 years to line the pockets of the comic mafia?...everything,...this is a loaded deck and it always has been

 

..this is like saying why should the oil companies have to clean up oil spills?...they didn't intend for their tankers to leak

 

Your entire argument is resting on the idea that buying/pressing/flipping and making "obscene" amounts of money doing it is somehow immoral, so you have to show how it's immoral, irrespective of the fact that you simply don't like the activity.

 

Comics are not essentials, and if you have 75K to blow on a comic, you're capable of educating yourself as to exactly what it is you're buying. If you can't get a complete history, you can simply opt not to buy the book.

 

Do I really have to explain why CGC's impact on the hobby isn't in any valid way comparable to an oil company's impact on the environment after an oil spill? Collectors demand high grade books, and they've decided to pay ridiculous premiums from one grade increment to the next; consequently, it's COLLECTORS, not CGC, who served as the catalyst for this little game that you despise. CGC should in no way be accountable for that.

[Rocketeer]

objects of art are not essential,...people pay huge amounts of money for them...auction houses like sotherbys pay authenticaters to decide if the oblects they sell are real or forgeries,...is this a Rembrandt?..oh yes,..no we didn't check it, but it really looks like a rembrandt doesn't it?

[COI]

objects of art are not essential,...people pay huge amounts of money from them...auction houses like sotherbys pay authenticaters to decide if the oblects they sell are real or forgeries,...is this a Rembrandt?..oh yes,..no we didn't check it, but it really looks like a rembrandt doesn't it?

 

Again, this is an invalid comparison because the market has decided, based on what collectors are willing to spend from one grade increment to the next, that pressing doesn't in any way invalidate or inauthenticate ultra high grade books.

 

High grade collectors made their own bed.

[LordRahl]

objects of art are not essential,...people pay huge amounts of money from them...auction houses like sotherbys pay authenticaters to decide if the oblects they sell are real or forgeries,...is this a Rembrandt?..oh yes,..no we didn't check it, but it really looks like a rembrandt doesn't it?

 

But CGC doesn't sell comics. All they offer is an independent third party opinion of grade and resto check to the best of their ability. I agree 100% with Andrew, CGC has no responsibility to keep ownership records. We the collectors have created this game by paying x multiples for .2 jumps in grade, .2 jumps which by the way are subjective and open to change from day to day with or without pressing.

[Rocketeer]

objects of art are not essential,...people pay huge amounts of money from them...auction houses like sotherbys pay authenticaters to decide if the oblects they sell are real or forgeries,...is this a Rembrandt?..oh yes,..no we didn't check it, but it really looks like a rembrandt doesn't it?

 

Again, this is an invalid comparison because the market has decided, based on what collectors are willing to spend from one grade increment to the next, that pressing doesn't in any way invalidate or inauthenticate ultra high grade books.

 

High grade collectors made their own bed.

 

...collectors decide what they are willing to spend based on CGC's evaluation of a book,..they decide a 9.4 is worth X and a 9.6 is worth XXXX

[USArmyParatrooper]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

 

...and that book would have an open past,...and that would reflect the price of that book on the open market,...given the choice would you buy a NM with a complete history for 5k of one without it?....

 

How can CGC possibly know who has owned a comic in the past?

 

they can't that's the whole point,..however a new submission would have the original owner's name,..and I know that anyone can sub a book for someone else,...but again you would have the choice of buying a book that has no recorded past,...you take the risk,...and I'm not talking about the average book,...I'm talking about books that have 1 thousand dollar value or more,...

 

I'm still not following. What do you mean it would have the "original" owners name? All CGC can know is who is submitting that particular book right then. Say that book gets sold, submitted through a third party, etc. all they can know is who is submitting that book right then. Even if the same person sends the same comic twice, how can they know whether or not it's the same book?

[Boozad]

because as a non partial third party grader whose determination of a grade on a book that ultimately decides the price of a sale of a book I feel that they have a moral obligation to stand behind their work,...and I hope you were being sarcastic,...

 

But that's all they are selling, a third party impartial opinion of grade and a resto check. Nothing more. And why would they hand out certificates with books saying 'Pressed three times' knowing it could possibly hurt future business?

 

because their grades determine the market value of the book,..without CGC we would never have been in the position that we are now,...they created the opportunity for this to happen,..they should be held accountable for what they have done,...what have they done in the last 10 years to improve the hobby?...nothing,...what have they done in the last 10 years to line the pockets of the comic mafia?...everything,...this is a loaded deck and it always has been

 

While I'm not completely arguing with you, look at the bolded part. They may have created the opportunity, but who fed it and made it grow? Everybody in this game apart from the very end user is out to make money, it's that simple. And it will never change.

[LordRahl]

They can't possibly know who a raw comic would belong to. People send comics in to be graded through third parties. An impossibly large database. Privacy issues. etc..

 

...and that book would have an open past,...and that would reflect the price of that book on the open market,...given the choice would you buy a NM with a complete history for 5k of one without it?....

 

How can CGC possibly know who has owned a comic in the past?

 

they can't that's the whole point,..however a new submission would have the original owner's name,..and I know that anyone can sub a book for someone else,...but again you would have the choice of buying a book that has no recorded past,...you take the risk,...and I'm not talking about the average book,...I'm talking about books that have 1 thousand dollar value or more,...

 

I'm still not following. What do you mean it would have the "original" owners name? All CGC can know is who is submitting that particular book right then. Say that book gets sold, submitted through a third party, etc. all they can know is who is submitting that book right then. Even if the same person sends the same comic twice, how can they know whether or not it's the same book?

 

There is no practical way of doing what Rocketeer is suggesting. All CGC could tell you is who the last submitter was. But beyond that, the entire premise is flawed IMO based on the fact that CGC does not have any moral obligations beyond giving you what you paid for (a third party grade and resto check), even if there was a practical way of doing what he's suggesting.