I am having trouble finding information about one of the most talked about...

[FlyingDonut]

Every single dealer who contributes to the OSPG is, bar none, biased against the notion of anything but perpetually-rising comic prices. It's only natural that they aren't going to predict, let alone publicize, a possible decline that could cause them real financial hardship.

 

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

Exactly.

[delekkerste]

Every single dealer who contributes to the OSPG is, bar none, biased against the notion of anything but perpetually-rising comic prices. It's only natural that they aren't going to predict, let alone publicize, a possible decline that could cause them real financial hardship.

 

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

Precisely.

 

Whose interest do you think he has in mind? Yours...or Harley Yee's?

[burntboy]

Every single dealer who contributes to the OSPG is, bar none, biased against the notion of anything but perpetually-rising comic prices. It's only natural that they aren't going to predict, let alone publicize, a possible decline that could cause them real financial hardship.

 

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

Yep.

 

first time i've seen your name pop up in a while and all you have to say is yep???

[Foolkiller]

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

as everyone else has mentioned... exactly.

[blowout]

Every single dealer who contributes to the OSPG is, bar none, biased against the notion of anything but perpetually-rising comic prices. It's only natural that they aren't going to predict, let alone publicize, a possible decline that could cause them real financial hardship.

 

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

Yes.

[Aman619]

let me give a slightly different answer:

You bet your bippy, bucko!!

I cant believe you are seriously asking that question......

[BachelorOfComix]

Every single dealer who contributes to the OSPG is, bar none, biased against the notion of anything but perpetually-rising comic prices. It's only natural that they aren't going to predict, let alone publicize, a possible decline that could cause them real financial hardship.

 

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

Affirmative.

[shadroch]

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

as everyone else has mentioned... exactly.

 

Using Harley only as an example,his report indicates that HE had good year,and HE is confident in the immediate future.Since he doesn't sell bronze or modern books,the

areas most discussed when people talk of am impending crash,why would anyone cite him for a crash case?

[Marvelous]

Every single dealer who contributes to the OSPG is, bar none, biased against the notion of anything but perpetually-rising comic prices. It's only natural that they aren't going to predict, let alone publicize, a possible decline that could cause them real financial hardship.

 

So, when Harley Yee says, "2003 was a very good year for the comic book market and I expect 2004 to be even better" (page 101) he is talking strictly from a biased dealer's perspective only and not that of collectors/investors, huh?

 

Precisely.

 

Whose interest do you think he has in mind? Yours...or Harley Yee's?

 

I would hope that if Overstreet is publishing Harley Yee's (or anybody else's) market report that he has the comic collecting communities interests in mind. If OSPG is just being used as a shill for dealers to publish false information to benefit themselves, what good is it to the collecting community and who can believe any of their prices are accurate? It would be nothing more than a book of lies. How could anyone who believed the OSPG was biased use it as a reference?

[drbanner]

You have to remember that most dealer's business model is built on buying wholesale and selling retail, not buying at FMV (whether it's on ebay, Heritage, or paying full guide for a new collection or at a show from other dealers) and holding onto the book hoping it appreciates in the guide to sell years later. They're more correctly classified as "flippers", not buy-and-hold "investors".

 

I would think that most big dealers have done quite well over the last several years as a lot of money has changed hands in this hobby! I have no doubt they all had great years in '03, and expect to have great years in '04, so from his perspective, Harley's comments are truthful.

[joe_collector]

Marvelous, although no one could possibly be this stupid, and it's obviously another trolling exercise of yours, I just gotta reply:

 

Here's a little research for you:

 

Take out your old OS Annuals and Updates, and go through them looking for advance warning of the Independent and Valiant market crashes. I'm sure with these kind-hearted OS advisors, you'll find tons of market projections of a crash, well in advance of the actual meltdown.

 

On second thought, I'll save you some time, as there are NONE. The closest you'll get are a few market reports from a female advisor slamming Wizard for its hype and warning that the price increases may cool down. Nothing about a crash, and the worst comment was that PRICE INCREASES would cool. The rest of the dealers were in major Hype Mode, promoting Valiant as the best investment going, and printing crazy sale after crazy sale to further fuel demand.

 

It was the same in the 80's Independent Crash, where OS advisors were pumping each and every "hot" Independent book, every new title was heavily promoted, and offered as a "sure-fire investment". This got so bad, that after the meltdown, Robert Overstreet published an Editorial about dealer responsibility in these cases, and obviously was quite embarrassed that OS was used as a speculative tool by the dealer community.

 

It gets even worse, and after the Independent and Valiant crashes, there were still dealers heavily promoting these books, offering sales and demand figures that didn't match reality. Some of these Market Reports sounded like the ravings of a maniac, calling for the return of speculative high prices, and how buyers would return in droves. Same thing for Valiant, and during the crash, many were promising it was only a temporary lull, and that there was no way these "low print run" books would ever drop further... and so on...

 

Obviously dealers are businessmen, and as such, are looking to make the most money possible. If that entails a bit of creative hype and marketing, can you really expect any less? Many go way too far, as mentioned above, and try to manipulate the market, even during a horrendous crash, simply because they're sitting on a few cases of Valiants, or Boris the Bear, or Ms Tree or Mage, and it's in their best interest to blatantly lie and see if they can get out with their shirts.

 

If you're looking for truth, go to unbiased sources without any financial stake in the business, such as a retired dealer who sold off all his books. If you are looking for dealers to show you the way, then you'll be walking down a steady slope and it will become increasingly hotter.

[Paul_Maul]

Your comments apply equally well to the stock market in 1998-1999. CNBC never aired a bearish comment, but suddenly in 2001-2002, the "bursting of the bubble was only a matter of time", etc. 20/20 hindsight and intellectual dishonesty are a potent combination.

[tth2]

JC, you know what, I agree with you 100%!

[Marvelous]

Marvelous, although no one could possibly be this stupid, and it's obviously another trolling exercise of yours, I just gotta reply:

 

You call me the troll, but you are the one following me Jock_Strap. I knew you wouldn't be able to stay in your hole because your urgent need to post in my thread would be too overwhelming for you to endure.

 

Here's a little research for you:

 

Take out your old OS Annuals and Updates, and go through them looking for advance warning of the Independent and Valiant market crashes. I'm sure with these kind-hearted OS advisors, you'll find tons of market projections of a crash, well in advance of the actual meltdown.

 

On second thought, I'll save you some time, as there are NONE. The closest you'll get are a few market reports from a female advisor slamming Wizard for its hype and warning that the price increases may cool down. Nothing about a crash, and the worst comment was that PRICE INCREASES would cool. The rest of the dealers were in major Hype Mode, promoting Valiant as the best investment going, and printing crazy sale after crazy sale to further fuel demand.

 

It was the same in the 80's Independent Crash, where OS advisors were pumping each and every "hot" Independent book, every new title was heavily promoted, and offered as a "sure-fire investment". This got so bad, that after the meltdown, Robert Overstreet published an Editorial about dealer responsibility in these cases, and obviously was quite embarrassed that OS was used as a speculative tool by the dealer community.

 

It gets even worse, and after the Independent and Valiant crashes, there were still dealers heavily promoting these books, offering sales and demand figures that didn't match reality. Some of these Market Reports sounded like the ravings of a maniac, calling for the return of speculative high prices, and how buyers would return in droves. Same thing for Valiant, and during the crash, many were promising it was only a temporary lull, and that there was no way these "low print run" books would ever drop further... and so on...

 

Obviously dealers are businessmen, and as such, are looking to make the most money possible. If that entails a bit of creative hype and marketing, can you really expect any less? Many go way too far, as mentioned above, and try to manipulate the market, even during a horrendous crash, simply because they're sitting on a few cases of Valiants, or Boris the Bear, or Ms Tree or Mage, and it's in their best interest to blatantly lie and see if they can get out with their shirts.

 

If you're looking for truth, go to unbiased sources without any financial stake in the business, such as a retired dealer who sold off all his books. If you are looking for dealers to show you the way, then you'll be walking down a steady slope and it will become increasingly hotter.

 

Investing in the "new" comic market has always been very risky no matter what decade you are talking about. Most veteran collectors could see the crash on the volatile new comics in the early 90s coming. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to predict a crash of million print run comics, multi-cover issues, foil covers, hologram covers, and polybagged comics with trading cards. Predicting a crash that will be so great that effects "All" the different ages of comics and not just hyped modern books are two separate issues. I don't have an OSPG from the early 1990s, but I am pretty confident there weren't dealers suggesting you should invest in modern books over Bronze, Silver, and Golden Age back issues.

[Foolkiller]

I think some of the older collectors remember, and I do as well to some degree, remember that back in the early 90s many dealers laughed at those who invested in silver/bronze and didn't latch on to valiants and the like as the hot books.

 

I don't think it was heavily advised in the OS guide, but it was certainly the feeling you got out on many con floors. I doubt these were the Metros, Highgradecomics, or Superworlds of the time, but there dealers o' plenty pushing moderns and alternate covers as "investments".

[FlyingDonut]

I think some of the older collectors remember, and I do as well to some degree, remember that back in the early 90s many dealers laughed at those who invested in silver/bronze and didn't latch on to valiants and the like as the hot books.

 

I don't think it was heavily advised in the OS guide, but it was certainly the feeling you got out on many con floors. I doubt these were the Metros, Highgradecomics, or Superworlds of the time, but there dealers o' plenty pushing moderns and alternate covers as "investments".

 

All I can tell you is that at the Heroes World convention in July 1992, I had a table, and was HAPPILY trading Magnus 0 with card for Silver Age books at $100 each. Happy to do it. Also Harbinger 0 Pink, Magnus 12, Solar 10. It was like free money.

[awe4one]

I think some of the older collectors remember, and I do as well to some degree, remember that back in the early 90s many dealers laughed at those who invested in silver/bronze and didn't latch on to valiants and the like as the hot books.

 

I don't think it was heavily advised in the OS guide, but it was certainly the feeling you got out on many con floors. I doubt these were the Metros, Highgradecomics, or Superworlds of the time, but there dealers o' plenty pushing moderns and alternate covers as "investments".

 

All I can tell you is that at the Heroes World convention in July 1992, I had a table, and was HAPPILY trading Magnus 0 with card for Silver Age books at $100 each. Happy to do it. Also Harbinger 0 Pink, Magnus 12, Solar 10. It was like free money.

 

I hear ya! Traded my Harbinger #6 and Solar #1 for HG FF #100, FF Annual #3, and ASM Annual #2 and Rai #3 for FF #80-85....

 

Jim

[Aman619]

Sober headed dealers were definitely beginning to drink the Kool-Aid of the new book sin the 90s. Even the otherwise brilliant and skillful Keith Contarino suddeny started writing market reports about stocking up on Valiants.. Wish I had sold MINE for Spideys back then!

[Aman619]

I would hope that if Overstreet is publishing Harley Yee's (or anybody else's) market report that he has the comic collecting communities interests in mind. If OSPG is just being used as a shill for dealers to publish false information to benefit themselves, what good is it to the collecting community and who can believe any of their prices are accurate? It would be nothing more than a book of lies. How could anyone who believed the OSPG was biased use it as a reference?

 

jeez Louise! I seriously cant believe you are serious about this!

 

Its not even a question of printing untruths. These are glowing market reports of basically real sales during the year, and written to accentuate the positive! duh. What else would a dealer write about? And as you read them thay are sprinkled with areas that they cant sell or are slow, so im many cases they are being fair, as well as hyping their market.

 

give us a break with this.... let it go.

[RS]

don't be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

Don't Be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person Shut up sit down Ben Stern