Most important comics - not price, not age, not scarcity

[Zombikaze]

We are trying to analyze something in the relatively far past but most of us weren't there.

 

I have my opinions on how importance is defined. I think anything Captain Marvel was in should be considered very important.

 

We can't do it simply by looking at values today.

 

Whiz #1 started the most popular run of superhero comics in the Golden Age, with Captain Marvel outselling Superman 2 to 1 on the newsstands and yet his books sell at a fraction of guide today.

 

We can't do it by popularity because Captain Marvel is not popular today and yet his stories carried the Golden Age until DC put Fawcett out of business.

 

We can't do it by scarcity, even though Whiz #1 is scarce in any grade, unrestored.

 

Let me ask, how do we define "importance" when you are talking about something historically?

 

 

 

 

 

What criteria makes a comic "important"?

 

I think you can just use the definition of the word Important:

1. of much great significance or consequence.

2. mattering much

3. entitled to more than ordinary consideration or notice.

4. prominent or large

[Stoic Man-migration]

Let me ask, how do we define "importance" when you are talking about something historically?

 

What criteria makes a comic "important"?

 

. . . and to whom? And why? Maybe "important" is the wrong adjective.

 

In any case, should these "important" comics have significance to collectors and non-collectors alike? Or just collectors because we're the experts.

 

My definition of an "Important Comic" is that it should have considerable and long-lasting influence over other professionals in the comics industry. My list might focus on breakthroughs in story-telling techniques and publishing technology.

 

One way to determine this quickly is to count which comics have been swiped from or "homaged" the most.

 

 

 

[oakman29]

Dave now that's a list.

[thehumantorch]

Dave now that's a list.

 

Certainly gives us something to compare to. Can't believe how under represented

Captain Marvel and his family are. I know they aren't that popular today but they

sure sold a ton of books.

[Zombikaze]

Let me ask, how do we define "importance" when you are talking about something historically?

 

What criteria makes a comic "important"?

 

. . . and to whom? And why? Maybe "important" is the wrong adjective.

 

In any case, should these "important" comics have significance to collectors and non-collectors alike? Or just collectors because we're the experts.

 

My definition of an "Important Comic" is that it should have considerable and long-lasting influence over other professionals in the comics industry. My list might focus on breakthroughs in story-telling techniques and publishing technology.

 

One way to determine this quickly is to count which comics have been swiped from or "homaged" the most.

 

 

 

I understand what both of you are saying as far as the significance to collectors or non-collectors...Who cares about non-collectors

 

In some cases it is easy to tell if a comic is Important to the Industry but it will always be in the eye of the beholder. For example:

One of these books is important and spawned a frenzy of computer sales while the other rotted the brains of small kids (please take this as the joke intended)

[reptilekingdie]

Action 1

Detective 1

Detective 27

Captain America 1

Marvel Comics 1

Eerie one shot (1947)

Vault of Horror 12

Showcase 4

Fantastic Four 1

Amazing Fantasy 15

Teenage Mutant Turtles 1

Walking Dead 1

[Blind Owl]

Here is an interesting list of the top 100 from Comicbookresources....

 

1. Action Comics #1 The Man of Steel ushers in a new Golden Age of heroes.

2. Detective Comics #27 The Batman begins his crusade against crime.

3. New Fun Comics #1 The first comic book to publish original material debuts.

4. Marvel Comics #1 The very beginnings of a Marvelous universe debuts.

5. Showcase #4 The fleet-footed Flash signals the start of a Silver Age in comics.

6. Fantastic Four #1 It's (sales-)clobberin' time for Marvel's super-team.

7. Amazing Fantasy #15 Is he strong? Listen, bud...

8. Cerebus #1 Canada's Dave Sim starts an aardvark on his journey.

9. Pep Comics #22 Archie... Archie Andrews, where are you? Oh, there you are.

10. Funnies on Parade Everything has to start somewhere.

 

 

...AND THE REST

 

11. Action Comics #23 The Man of Steel gains an archenemy worthy of his time.

12. Action Comics #252 Supergirl debuts to displays her own brand of "girl power."

13. Adventure Comics #247 The Legion of Super-Heroes begin building their roster.

14. Akira #1 A Japanese masterpiece is introduced to the West.

15. All-American Comics #16 The original Green Lantern sees the light of day for the first time.

16. All-Star Comics #3 A society of heroes first assembles.

17. All-Star Comics #8 Wonder Woman begins her crusade for truth, justice and positive role models.

18. Alpha Flight #106 A superhero comes out of the closet.

19. Amazing Spider-Man #96, The Marvel defies the censors with an anti-drug message.

20. Amazing Spider-Man #121, The Gwen Stacey's death makes Marvel a less merry place.

21. Amazing Spider-Man #129, The The Punisher begins his personal war against crime.

22. American Splendor #1 Harvey Pekar's autobiography inspires underground artists.

23. Avengers #1, The The Avengers assemble for the very first time.

24. Batman #1 Two of comics' greatest villains first appear.

25. Batman #428 Robin gets whacked... but don't blame the Joker.

26. Brave and the Bold #28, The Smells like team spirit when the JLA assembles.

27. Captain America #1 Comics get patriotic with their first untested title character.

28. Captain Victory #1 Comic king Jack Kirby strikes a blow for artists' rights.

29. Classic Comics #1 Comics that are good for you? What an Interesting idea...

30. Conan the Barbarian #1 "Sword-and-sorcery" fantasy comes to life.

31. Creepy #1 Horror makes a comeback.

32. Crime Does Not Pay #22 Before Cops, nothing beat this for true crime stories.

33. Crisis on Infinite Earths #1 DC cleans house on a cosmic scale.

34. Crypt of Terror #17 Horror enters its own "golden age," and exposes some pretty horrific hypocrisy along the way.

35. Daredevil #1 It isn't hard to see how the idea of a blind hero might sound odd...

36. Daredevil #158 Daredevil's rebirth makes life grittier for a lot of heroes.

37. Dark Knight Returns #1, The Frank Miller breathes new life into the Caped Crusader.

38. Death of Captain Marvel, The Captain Marvel faces the one foe he can't beat with his fists.

39. Detective Comics #1 The first comic book devoted to a particular theme debuts.

40. Detective Comics #38 Sidekicks wanted. Apply within.

41. Detective Comics #225 The Martian Manhunter arrives to walk among us.

42. Famous Funnies #1 The first retail comic book appears.

43. Fantastic Four #5 "Doctor" Doom, if you please...

44. Fantastic Four #48 The Silver Surfer and Galactus put the "universe" in "Marvel Universe."

45. Fantastic Four #52 The Black Panther is introduced as Marvel's first black superhero.

46. Fantasy Quarterly #1 Elfquest, one of the first successful creator-owned comics, debuts.

47. Flash Comics #1 A famous fleet-footed fellow debuts.

48. Flash #123, The Worlds collide as DC's Silver Age meets its Golden Age.

49. Four Color Comics #9 Carl Barks, meet Donald Duck.

50. Four Color Comics #178 Uncle Scrooge debuts for our money-making merriment.

51. Green Lantern #76 Comics discover "relevance."

52. Heavy Metal #1 A French import offers some maturity to the medium.

53. House of Secrets #92 DC's Swamp Thing first rises from the muck.

54. Incredible Hulk #1, The "Is he man, monster, or... is he both?"

55. Incredible Hulk #181, The Marvel's mightiest-selling mutant debuts.

56. Jimmy Olsen #134 Darkseid debuts as DC's most dastardly despot.

57. Journey Into Mystery #83 Ancient mythology meets modern storytelling with the son of Odin.

58. Kingdom Come #1 Old heroes and new battle to decide "whose will be done."

59. Little Dot #1 Richie Rich starts counting his millions... of fans.

60. Lone Wolf & Cub #1 First Comics gives many readers their first look at manga.

61. Love and Rockets #1 A series for mature readers makes its debut.

62. MAD #1 The MADness begins.

63. Magnus, Robot Fighter #1 Sci-fi looks to the future.

64. Man of Steel #1, The Superman gets a facelift.

65. Marvels #1 What if you were a normal person in a world where superhumans can fly?

66. Maus #1 The first comic to win a Pulitzer Prize begins its terrible tale.

67. Military Comics #1 Blackhawk arrives to fight the good fight.

68. More Fun Comics #52 The Spectre's debut makes comics a little more spirited.

69. More Fun Comics #73 Both Aquaman and Green Arrow arrive on the scene.

70. More Fun Comics #101 Superboy is born, but not everyone is happy about it.

71. Motion Picture Funnies #1 The first appearance of the Sub-Mariner... kind of.

72. New Gods #1, The Jack "King" Kirby reveals his masterpiece to the masses.

73. New Teen Titans #1, The DC's sidekicks enjoy their second chance at stardom.

74. Planet Comics #1 Bug-eyed aliens finally get their moment.

75. Police Comics #1 Plastic Man redefines superhero humor, thanks to creator Jack Cole.

76. Saga of the Swamp Thing #20, The Alan Moore ushers in a new era of mature reading.

77. Sandman #1, The Neil Gaiman's story about the realm of stories begins.

78. Showcase #9 The Superman family grows a little with the debut of Lois Lane's title.

79. Showcase #22 Beware the power of Green Lantern's light.

80. Spawn #1 A new hero offers up a new "Image" for comics.

81. Spirit Sections, The Will Eisner brings a new "spirit" to the comics business.

82. Star Wars #1 A long time ago... a movie made a serious impact on comics.

83. Strange Tales #110 Dr. Strange first weaves his spell over Marvel's fans.

84. Strange Tales #151 Jim Steranko brings a new style to an old soldier.

85. Superman #1 The first comic book devoted to a single character debuts.

86. Superman #75 Superman dies. It didn't take.

87. Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man Comics' two biggest heroes -- and companies -- meet for the first time.

88. Tales of Suspense #39 Iron Man suits up for action.

89. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 Two guys make fun of comics, and get rich doing it.

90. Two-Fisted Tales #18 Harvey Kurtzman's masterpiece reveals the true face of war.

91. Two-Gun Kid #1, The Move aside, you ornery cape-wearin' varmints...

92. Understanding Comics A comic book about comic books. Go figure.

93. Walt Disney's Comics & Stories #1 Disney finds a new audience for its cinematic stars.

94. Watchmen #1 Who watched the Watchmen in 1986? Everyone.

95. Whiz Comics #2 Captain Marvel gives that other flying guy a fair fight.

96. Wonder Comics #1 The comic that launched the industry's first copyright lawsuit...

97. X-Men #1, The Marvel's mightiest-selling team first makes its mark.

98. X-Men Giant-Size #1 Marvel's mutant team gets major with a makeover.

99. Young Romance #1 Love is in the air... thanks to Joe Simon and Jack Kirby.

100. Zap Comix #0 Underground "comix" get noticed, thanks to Robert Crumb's twisted take on like.

 

Great list....(my top ten has 7 out of 10 from this top ten list, so we almost agree).

But I did notice a couple of mistakes with the list....

 

1) Zap #1 came out before Zap #0....and

2) Detective Picture Stories #1 was published earlier than Detective Comics #1, and is the "1st comic of a single theme" (Sorry Ronaldo). Other than that, a decent listing of books.

 

I think again the word "important" regardless of popularity, price, & scarcity is the key word here. Important evidently means different things to different people.

 

I think if a comic book was a "game-changer", it should be considered important. Keep in mind there are not that many "game-changers" out there.

 

Popularity can be a "game-changer" in some instances. I think Action #1 is an example of this in more than one way. Not only did it introduce Superman, but it also helped create a huge demand market for Super-Heroes. There were costumed heroes before Superman, but none had the impact that he did on the entire market. That's why Action #1 is important to me, much more so than just the Superman appearance.

 

This is also why a book like All-Star #3 is important. It was the 1st Super-Hero team book. The concept was copied many times there-after and still is being copied today, but All-Star #3 was the "game-changer"...thus that's why it is important. Not because of popularity, or because of rarity, or price...even though it has some of these elements....it's an important book...like it or not...

 

Anyway, great thread....the "Big Cheese" is important, but just not as important as some of the others we have been talking about...that's all. Nothing personal, Capt. Marvel I think was at one time the largest circulation of any comic book....but he wasn't "game-changing".

 

Different levels of "importance".

 

OK...throw me to the Wolves now, I said my piece.

 

[Theagenes]

Also overlooked so far is Marvel Mystery Comics 8 (with 9 and 10) Torch vs.Subby. As the first true super-hero crossover it is really the beginning of the Marvel Universe as it was the first time it become apparent that you had the two characters existing in the same continuity.

 

Although a couple of months earlier, The Shield and the Wizard made cameo appearances in each others books, I doubt it had the impact that the highly advertised 3-part Torch-Subby battle did.

[AGGIEZ]

Dave now that's a list.

 

Certainly gives us something to compare to. Can't believe how under represented

Captain Marvel and his family are. I know they aren't that popular today but they

sure sold a ton of books.

 

 

I bet if you gave Captain Marvel comics away at Halloween they would be insanely popular...

 

 

Luv ya Roy (thumbs u

[Bookery]

It is almost impossible today to put together a "most important" list because comics history has been so skewed by modern revisionism primarily through limited historical perspective, an over-emphasis on super-heroes, and an ongoing mythology of misinformation.

 

If I put some more thought into it, there would be other examples, but off the top of my head:

 

Comic Monthly #1 (1922) the true 1st monthly newsstand comic.

 

Thimble Theatre #1 (1931) 1st super-hero in comics (Popeye-- precedes Superman by 7 years).

 

Funny Pages #6 (1936) 1st masked hero in comics... paves the way for Batman.

 

Mickey Mouse Magazine #1 (1935) though Mickey appeared in a number of book formats previously, this brings the world's most recognizeable fictional character into a monthly newsstand publication, and greatly contributes to the rise and success of the funny animal genre, whose popularity, contrary to modern opinion, dwarfed that of super-heroes throughout the 30s, 40s, and 50s (one of the reasons they are called "comic" books and/or "funnies", not "flyers" or "punch-'ems").

 

Fantastic Four #1 (1961) the book that actually did (finally) lead super-heroes into being the most popular genre (but not until the '60s and beyond).

 

And, of course, it's hard to divorce comic "books" from their important foundations in newspaper strips, animated cartoons, and other formats:

 

The 1st female super-hero (also pre-dating Superman) in comic book format is Olga Mesmer, who appeared (monthly by the way) in a series of cartoon strips inside the "Spicy Mystery" pulp beginning in 1937.

 

Marvel's 1st continuing hero is actually Ka-Zar, who appeared in 3 issues of his own pulp title in 1936-- predating Marvel Comics #1 by 3 years (where Ka-Zar returned, and continues being published, off and on, to this day).

 

etc., etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bookery]

 

BTW-- there is no Fantastic Four without Showcase #6. Kirby simply lifted his team characters from Challengers and revamed them into the FF. Prof becomes Reed Richards, Rocky becomes The Thing, Red becomes Johnny, and... well... (he is blonde) Ace becomes Sue Storm.

 

[Theagenes]

and... well... (he is blonde) Ace becomes Sue Storm.

 

Not there's anything wrong with that.

 

To add your list of things from outside the comics proper, I would include the appearance of the Tarzan and Buck Rogers strips in 1929, which paved the way for non-funny comics.

[Blind Owl]

BTW-- there is no Fantastic Four without Showcase #6. Kirby simply lifted his team characters from Challengers and revamed them into the FF. Prof becomes Reed Richards, Rocky becomes The Thing, Red becomes Johnny, and... well... (he is blonde) Ace becomes Sue Storm.

 

Good point.

 

But still not nearly as important as FF #1.

 

FF #1 basically started the "Marvel Age" which lead to all the other Marvel Super-heroes, so FF #1 trumps Showcase #6 on this fact alone. Also dare I say it, if FF#1 wasn't POPULAR, where would that put Showcase #6. Maybe in the forgotten bins.

 

Also where would you put Showcase #6 in a top 100 list...for example...#92???

 

Hard to say, and trying to create a list of a top 100 is nearly impossible.

 

A top 10 list is much easier to do because the book would have to be a serious "game-changer" to be included.

 

As far as the pulps are concerned, or platinum age books, I didn't include them because they weren't comic book sized. That puts them in a different category to me, even though without these books comics might not ever have seen the light of day. So maybe we need a different list for these books.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Here is an interesting list of the top 100 from Comicbookresources....

 

1. Action Comics #1 The Man of Steel ushers in a new Golden Age of heroes.

2. Detective Comics #27 The Batman begins his crusade against crime.

3. New Fun Comics #1 The first comic book to publish original material debuts.

4. Marvel Comics #1 The very beginnings of a Marvelous universe debuts.

5. Showcase #4 The fleet-footed Flash signals the start of a Silver Age in comics.

6. Fantastic Four #1 It's (sales-)clobberin' time for Marvel's super-team.

7. Amazing Fantasy #15 Is he strong? Listen, bud...

8. Cerebus #1 Canada's Dave Sim starts an aardvark on his journey.

9. Pep Comics #22 Archie... Archie Andrews, where are you? Oh, there you are.

10. Funnies on Parade Everything has to start somewhere.

 

 

...AND THE REST

 

11. Action Comics #23 The Man of Steel gains an archenemy worthy of his time.

12. Action Comics #252 Supergirl debuts to displays her own brand of "girl power."

13. Adventure Comics #247 The Legion of Super-Heroes begin building their roster.

14. Akira #1 A Japanese masterpiece is introduced to the West.

15. All-American Comics #16 The original Green Lantern sees the light of day for the first time.

16. All-Star Comics #3 A society of heroes first assembles.

17. All-Star Comics #8 Wonder Woman begins her crusade for truth, justice and positive role models.

18. Alpha Flight #106 A superhero comes out of the closet.

19. Amazing Spider-Man #96, The Marvel defies the censors with an anti-drug message.

20. Amazing Spider-Man #121, The Gwen Stacey's death makes Marvel a less merry place.

21. Amazing Spider-Man #129, The The Punisher begins his personal war against crime.

22. American Splendor #1 Harvey Pekar's autobiography inspires underground artists.

23. Avengers #1, The The Avengers assemble for the very first time.

24. Batman #1 Two of comics' greatest villains first appear.

25. Batman #428 Robin gets whacked... but don't blame the Joker.

26. Brave and the Bold #28, The Smells like team spirit when the JLA assembles.

27. Captain America #1 Comics get patriotic with their first untested title character.

28. Captain Victory #1 Comic king Jack Kirby strikes a blow for artists' rights.

29. Classic Comics #1 Comics that are good for you? What an Interesting idea...

30. Conan the Barbarian #1 "Sword-and-sorcery" fantasy comes to life.

31. Creepy #1 Horror makes a comeback.

32. Crime Does Not Pay #22 Before Cops, nothing beat this for true crime stories.

33. Crisis on Infinite Earths #1 DC cleans house on a cosmic scale.

34. Crypt of Terror #17 Horror enters its own "golden age," and exposes some pretty horrific hypocrisy along the way.

35. Daredevil #1 It isn't hard to see how the idea of a blind hero might sound odd...

36. Daredevil #158 Daredevil's rebirth makes life grittier for a lot of heroes.

37. Dark Knight Returns #1, The Frank Miller breathes new life into the Caped Crusader.

38. Death of Captain Marvel, The Captain Marvel faces the one foe he can't beat with his fists.

39. Detective Comics #1 The first comic book devoted to a particular theme debuts.

40. Detective Comics #38 Sidekicks wanted. Apply within.

41. Detective Comics #225 The Martian Manhunter arrives to walk among us.

42. Famous Funnies #1 The first retail comic book appears.

43. Fantastic Four #5 "Doctor" Doom, if you please...

44. Fantastic Four #48 The Silver Surfer and Galactus put the "universe" in "Marvel Universe."

45. Fantastic Four #52 The Black Panther is introduced as Marvel's first black superhero.

46. Fantasy Quarterly #1 Elfquest, one of the first successful creator-owned comics, debuts.

47. Flash Comics #1 A famous fleet-footed fellow debuts.

48. Flash #123, The Worlds collide as DC's Silver Age meets its Golden Age.

49. Four Color Comics #9 Carl Barks, meet Donald Duck.

50. Four Color Comics #178 Uncle Scrooge debuts for our money-making merriment.

51. Green Lantern #76 Comics discover "relevance."

52. Heavy Metal #1 A French import offers some maturity to the medium.

53. House of Secrets #92 DC's Swamp Thing first rises from the muck.

54. Incredible Hulk #1, The "Is he man, monster, or... is he both?"

55. Incredible Hulk #181, The Marvel's mightiest-selling mutant debuts.

56. Jimmy Olsen #134 Darkseid debuts as DC's most dastardly despot.

57. Journey Into Mystery #83 Ancient mythology meets modern storytelling with the son of Odin.

58. Kingdom Come #1 Old heroes and new battle to decide "whose will be done."

59. Little Dot #1 Richie Rich starts counting his millions... of fans.

60. Lone Wolf & Cub #1 First Comics gives many readers their first look at manga.

61. Love and Rockets #1 A series for mature readers makes its debut.

62. MAD #1 The MADness begins.

63. Magnus, Robot Fighter #1 Sci-fi looks to the future.

64. Man of Steel #1, The Superman gets a facelift.

65. Marvels #1 What if you were a normal person in a world where superhumans can fly?

66. Maus #1 The first comic to win a Pulitzer Prize begins its terrible tale.

67. Military Comics #1 Blackhawk arrives to fight the good fight.

68. More Fun Comics #52 The Spectre's debut makes comics a little more spirited.

69. More Fun Comics #73 Both Aquaman and Green Arrow arrive on the scene.

70. More Fun Comics #101 Superboy is born, but not everyone is happy about it.

71. Motion Picture Funnies #1 The first appearance of the Sub-Mariner... kind of.

72. New Gods #1, The Jack "King" Kirby reveals his masterpiece to the masses.

73. New Teen Titans #1, The DC's sidekicks enjoy their second chance at stardom.

74. Planet Comics #1 Bug-eyed aliens finally get their moment.

75. Police Comics #1 Plastic Man redefines superhero humor, thanks to creator Jack Cole.

76. Saga of the Swamp Thing #20, The Alan Moore ushers in a new era of mature reading.

77. Sandman #1, The Neil Gaiman's story about the realm of stories begins.

78. Showcase #9 The Superman family grows a little with the debut of Lois Lane's title.

79. Showcase #22 Beware the power of Green Lantern's light.

80. Spawn #1 A new hero offers up a new "Image" for comics.

81. Spirit Sections, The Will Eisner brings a new "spirit" to the comics business.

82. Star Wars #1 A long time ago... a movie made a serious impact on comics.

83. Strange Tales #110 Dr. Strange first weaves his spell over Marvel's fans.

84. Strange Tales #151 Jim Steranko brings a new style to an old soldier.

85. Superman #1 The first comic book devoted to a single character debuts.

86. Superman #75 Superman dies. It didn't take.

87. Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man Comics' two biggest heroes -- and companies -- meet for the first time.

88. Tales of Suspense #39 Iron Man suits up for action.

89. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 Two guys make fun of comics, and get rich doing it.

90. Two-Fisted Tales #18 Harvey Kurtzman's masterpiece reveals the true face of war.

91. Two-Gun Kid #1, The Move aside, you ornery cape-wearin' varmints...

92. Understanding Comics A comic book about comic books. Go figure.

93. Walt Disney's Comics & Stories #1 Disney finds a new audience for its cinematic stars.

94. Watchmen #1 Who watched the Watchmen in 1986? Everyone.

95. Whiz Comics #2 Captain Marvel gives that other flying guy a fair fight.

96. Wonder Comics #1 The comic that launched the industry's first copyright lawsuit...

97. X-Men #1, The Marvel's mightiest-selling team first makes its mark.

98. X-Men Giant-Size #1 Marvel's mutant team gets major with a makeover.

99. Young Romance #1 Love is in the air... thanks to Joe Simon and Jack Kirby.

100. Zap Comix #0 Underground "comix" get noticed, thanks to Robert Crumb's twisted take on like.

Any list that puts Two-Gun Kid #1 and Spawn #1 before X-Men #1 and X-Men Giant-Size #1 needs to be looked at.

[Scrooge]

Have you heard of alphabetical order? ...

[ComicConnoisseur]

Have you heard of alphabetical order? ...

I need more morning coffee!

 

[Scrooge]

Well, it's bizarre that they ordered the Top 10 and then lumped the next 90.