What Really Caused the 90s Crash?

[Aman619]

why should that scare you Joe? Youre always so negative, it must be scary that readers actually DO come back... and maybe the future isnt so grim? Readers quitting and never coming back is at the heart of all your predictions, aint it?

[joe_collector]

why should that scare you Joe? Youre always so negative, it must be scary that readers actually DO come back... and maybe the future isnt so grim? Readers quitting and never coming back is at the heart of all your predictions, aint it?

 

Did you hear that "whooosh"?

[Aman619]

what whoooosh where when??

[tilleycs]

I stopped collecting about 92, and didnt come back until last year.

 

My story is similar, although I stopped collecting around 1989 (I started in 1979). I do NOT regret missing the 90's. I followed events in the comics industry from a distance, but didn't buy anything. I got back in last year, although I've been busy buying back issues. I don't bother buying anything modern.

 

Why does hearing stories like this scare you, JC?

[FFB]

Me too, except I lasted a little over a year longer than you did. I think I stuck it out the extra year mainly because I kept reading Valiants for a while after Shooter left and then started on the Defiant stuff, hoping for a pre-Unity Valiant Part Two revival. Plasm was interesting, but that line was no Valiant.

 

Crappy books, lame gimmicks, short sighted "investors", over exposure in the market, bad management. I stopped collecting about 92, and didnt come back until last year.

[joe_collector]

what whoooosh where when??

 

Think "pattern of speculation", whereby those who helped contribute to the rise-and-fall of comics every decade or so, feel the call oif the speculator and return to the fold to work their magic once again. Rinse and repeat.

 

Same thing happened after the 1980's Crash, and people jumped on the bandwagon again for the 1990's crash. I must have heard that "I'm just getting back into comics" line a zillion times and then a few years later...

 

Then like clockwork, the high values, investment/speculative returns, and "heat" bring them back like lambs to the slaughter.

[justiceleaguer]

Have any of you ever sat back and thought that in 100 years after all the golden and silver age books have disintigrated and are as difficult to collect as victorian age stuff is now, kids will be going after 90's books.

[NewtSamson]

Have any of you ever sat back and thought that in 100 years after all the golden and silver age books have disintigrated and are as difficult to collect as victorian age stuff is now, kids will be going after 90's books.

Then my grandchildren are gonna be rich

[kahml]

kids will be going after 90's books

 

Now that's just friggin' scary!

 

 

Larry

[Aman619]

well, there are two schools of thought here:

 

One states that its a moot point what comics will be in demand by then cause NO ONE will still care about comics: GA, SA, BA, CA or 90s

 

The other reminds current comics collectors that each generation covets the Age of their youth (right now its Bronze thats getting the heat) which is also the same age of comics that the previous generation thinks (or used to until values increased) was utter CRAPOLA!.

 

As a Silver Age kid, I still collected into the 70s, but was clearly convinced how watered down and lousy the stories and art were (while still admiring the BEST stuff - - every age has had its 5% of GOOD stuff). And most of early comics collectors and dealers also looked down their noses at Bronze up until a few years back.... And, Golden Age guys thought the Silver age was common new stuff, copies everywhere...

 

Soooo, if there are still collectors out there in 20 - 25 years, 90s books will become collectible. The proof will come soon, if we see renewed interest in 80s books. If they never take off, however, then turn out the lights! Game over man!

[thanos_oftitan]

well, there are two schools of thought here:

 

One states that its a moot point what comics will be in demand by then cause NO ONE will still care about comics: GA, SA, BA, CA or 90s

 

The other reminds current comics collectors that each generation covets the Age of their youth (right now its Bronze thats getting the heat) which is also the same age of comics that the previous generation thinks (or used to until values increased) was utter CRAPOLA!.

 

As a Silver Age kid, I still collected into the 70s, but was clearly convinced how watered down and lousy the stories and art were (while still admiring the BEST stuff - - every age has had its 5% of GOOD stuff). And most of early comics collectors and dealers also looked down their noses at Bronze up until a few years back.... And, Golden Age guys thought the Silver age was common new stuff, copies everywhere...

 

Soooo, if there are still collectors out there in 20 - 25 years, 90s books will become collectible. The proof will come soon, if we see renewed interest in 80s books. If they never take off, however, then turn out the lights! Game over man!

 

 

I remember in the late 70's thinking it was just me getting older. It didn't occur to me that the books were starting to suck. I know better now

[shiverbones]

the final word on this subject is always supply and demand. it is the most simple, basic and true formula for value. The 90's crash is because of an endless supply with false visions of demand which soon was proven wrong by actual demand. there were never 6 million people who wanted x-men #1.

[shiverbones]

in relation to today, the difference i still feel will be correction instead of crash. there are say 250 cgc high grade examples of a key book from 1973. There will always be 300 people who want them. even if 100 people leave disgusted, the prices will drop to a point that becomes appealing to the next level of 300 people who want pretty copies of books and now can afford previously unobtainable examples. There are enough collectors in the world of vintage comics to keep that going for some time. The people who loose will be the ones that buy foolishly. Low to VF grade raw is not threatened by this coming "crash" since there is nothing to crash. There is simply readers/collectors and existing supply. Prices are reasonable and will stay so after such a "Crash"

[tilleycs]

When I said I got back into collecting, that means that I'm buying full runs of reader copies of the titles I used to collect, not that I'm getting back into speculating. I don't buy or collect anything modern. I've traded for some modern stuff in the titles that I collect, but I don't buy anything modern or have subscriptions.

[Aman619]

thats an important distinction. One more anecdotal vote for 'kids' coming back when they are older and collecting comics again, and in this case, comics that pre=dated their era. A question, why readers copies? If you were mega rich, would you be buying high grade CGC copies? Or is this not a factor of money and todays high cost of entry to sit at the High Grade table?

[lou_fine]

thats an important distinction. One more anecdotal vote for 'kids' coming back when they are older and collecting comics again, and in this case, comics that pre=dated their era. A question, why readers copies? If you were mega rich, would you be buying high grade CGC copies? Or is this not a factor of money and todays high cost of entry to sit at the High Grade table?

 

His answer seem pretty clear to me. He's obviously buying reader copies so that he can COLLECT AND READ them. If he was buying CGC copies, how would he be able to read them. CGC books are meant more for investors and speculators, especially if you are talking abount slabbed Modern books. As he clearly stated, he does not buy Modern books and is not a speculator.

 

Seems pretty clear to me that he knows where his priorities are.

[tilleycs]

A question, why readers copies? If you were mega rich, would you be buying high grade CGC copies? Or is this not a factor of money and todays high cost of entry to sit at the High Grade table?

 

Thanks, lou, you're right. I'll repeat all that by answering it myself. When I got back into it, believe me, I was tempted to become an investor/speculator, but I chose not to for several reasons:

 

1. I'm getting married in November, and our goal is to have the wedding/honeymoon paid off before it happens (I've met/known couples who were still paying for their weddings five years after they happened - some of whom were getting divorced and STILL hadn't paid their wedding off - and I decided that we are NOT going to be one of those couples), so most of my disposable income has been going toward that. After that, our goal is to pay off the remainder of my fiance's debt and save for a house. Then we'll start a family. Why bother starting something (investing in high-dollar books) that I won't be able to do without neglecting other, more important, things?

 

2. I enjoy being frugal, and since investing in comics isn't an option, finding runs of reader copies as cheaply as possible has been more fun than I ever could have had investing in CGC books. I've enjoyed "the hunt". I've still got a lot of gaps to fill, but it's been fun. And speaking of fun...

 

3. Not going down the investment/speculation road has kept comics from becoming a commodity to me. I've had other hobbies that have turned into commodities for me in the past, and they're harder to enjoy after that. They go from being something you enjoy to a means to an end (which is money, usually), and it kills the innocence and enjoyment for me. You don't enjoy it any more - you measure it, you calculate it, you log it.

 

4. I don't think I'd be a very good investor/speculator. I don't have enough interest in the "market" (so to speak), so I'd have no interest in the current "trends" or what's hot/not. Which means I'd completely SUCK at flipping. I'd rather buy what I like than try to figure out what may (or may not! How many speculators made money from all those variant/chrome/hologram/foil-cover comics they gobbled up in the 90's?) be the best investment. I'd probably lose more money than I'd make, which I think is the case for most speculators, even the ones who have a lot more interest than I do.

 

5. Having reader copies saves me a lot of stress. I don't have to worry about whether I'm ever going to be able to get my money back from them, whether CGC is going to be having an "off day" when they grade them, when the best time is going to be to sell them (or has it already passed?), what I'm going to do if I have to sell them for less than I want to, what if their value goes WAY up after I sell them, what if I have seller's remorse, etc.

 

Not to mention the stress of "If I drop this book or spill something on it by accident, it will cost me hundreds of dollars!" Sheesh, who needs that kind of pressure over a funny book? I'd also rather have my comics out to read than in a plastic slab where I can't read them. And since I'm only getting reader copies, I don't have to worry about whether I have the biggest/best/highest graded issue or collection (I think it would be easy for me to get obsessed with stuff like that, so it's probably best I not even get near it). I can be content with what I have.

 

If I were mega-rich, would I be buying high-grade CGC copies? It depends. If I suddenly became rich with my current priorities, I doubt it. I've got too many other things to take care of first. If I came from a mega-rich family (which I didn't, which is why I've tried to be smart with my money - I'm afraid of ever getting to that point and feeling so helpless and "stuck" again), I probably wouldn't have to be as frugal, but who knows, maybe I would be because of my personality. That variation of the question is a lot tougher to answer.

 

But all this is just me, my preferences, what I've learned about myself, and what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

[Aman619]

Lou, I was merely tyring to further my line of reasoning about returning to comics after many years. Meaning, if one developed the desire to return to reading/collecting comics, what percentage would, if they could afford todays jacked up prices, rather buy high grade and build nice runs and hope to maintain their investment in them. Thats all.

 

Clearly his well-thought out reply explains his situation and his reasons for what he wants to do, to read and collect.

[Aman619]

But all this is just me, my preferences, what I've learned about myself, and what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

 

This is the perfect summation, Tilley. We all have our own collecting interests, motivations and goals. Go for it and welcome back. There have been a lot of good stories for you to catch up on...

[tilleycs]

This is the perfect summation, Tilley. We all have our own collecting interests, motivations and goals. Go for it and welcome back. There have been a lot of good stories for you to catch up on...

 

Thanks, aman. People are 100% free to like, dislike, collect, invest, and speculate in whatever they want. If people want to invest in CGC books and speculate, more power to 'em, I hope they do well and have a ton of fun. I just choose not to. I share everyone's passion for comics, but not the passion (and the frustration that goes with it!) for investing/speculating. But to each his/her own.