Bid strategy for ComicLink? 0

[USArmyParatrooper]

Your point is valid but I pose this to you as I know it's happened to myself and many others:

 

If I'm bidding on multiple items and things start to go higher than expected with a soft end time I would have the option of letting some go to focus my funds on those which I really want. Hard end times often can result in complete shut-outs. Less shut-out bidders results in more people being satisfied overall correct?

 

Once again, I just want the option of deciding for myself.

 

Even on that basis I think there's a much higher potential for buyers remorse. I don't think the heat of the moment when you're this close to grabbing that coveted item is the right time to be making decisions.

 

But even if you dismiss my take on that, the ultimate trump card (again from the buyer's perspective) is higher prices. I've never met a single buyer who doesn't try like hell to get the most bang for his buck when he buys comics. You need to have something seriously compelling if you're going to claim buyers are going to pay more and be more satisfied. I really don't think you've even come close to making that case.

 

Now, a soft end better for the auction house and the seller? Sure.

[USArmyParatrooper]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. How can they have gone higher with a hard end time yet had a monetary raise of at least $5000 with a soft?

 

I think you misunderstood the details of what he was saying.

 

He said the soft end time had a higher (total) close price than a hard time would have, but a hard time would have ended higher than it did for the initial (tentative) soft end time. In other words people held back because they knew the end time wasn't in stone.

 

Edited September 8, 2011 by USArmyParatrooper

[comicdonna]

I do have 1 fact for this thread. If I was in a bidding war on a book I really wanted, I would end up bidding higher with a soft close option.

[VintageComics]

I do have 1 fact for this thread. If I was in a bidding war on a book I really wanted, I would end up bidding higher with a soft close option.

 

That is what the companies with soft bids are hoping for. The soft bid allows more time and flexibility in my view than a hard time which, once gone will not return.

 

Got to drop the kids off to bed? Throw in a soft bid and extend it a bit...that sort of thing.

 

 

[The Troll King]

I do have 1 fact for this thread. If I was in a bidding war on a book I really wanted, I would end up bidding higher with a soft close option.

 

I think I would too but the clear difference (and disagreement) I believe is what we collect. You and I aren't collecting books that come up for auction once a month or more.

 

We are valuing books on obtainability as well as our budget which I believe is why sometimes you see those extreme high multiples of guide price.

 

There is a specific book that I've been seeking for a number of years and I know where 3 copies are available. I've managed to get my hands on all 3 copies to evaluate them and have determined that the grade just isn't quite high enough on them for my tastes (plus one is restored). When and if this book finally comes up for auction in a higher grade I'm sure I'll be bidding plenty and then will run the risk of being sniped in the end.

[EastEnd]

I've rarely, if ever, had buyer's remorse for an item I really wanted when I have time to think about my bids and react to what's going on around me. I can't say the same for hard stop auctions where I've had to put in an unusually high swipe bid to give me the best chance of winning.

[sufunk]

I'm not so sure that soft end times achieves higher prices in an online environment. I think the fact that you don't get a second chance with a hard end time encourages people to put in higher swipe bids than they otherwise might. Historically, I think that, more than anything else, has accounted for a lot of the crazy prices that Clink has produced over the years. I'd have to think that Josh would have changed the Clink bidding system if he wasn't seeing this effect. Same with Ebay.

If I remember correctly, the Atlantic City copy of Action #10 recieved bids during soft end times, resulting in a higher hammer price of over $50,000 or more. Same thing with the Action #13

 

It's difficult to use any of these items are arguing points. Who's to say the action 10 would not have achieved a higher price with a hard end time? The reason people put in bids during the soft end time is because they were allowed to put in bids, and they knew this before the auction started.

 

Bid your maximum and let it ride is only a good philosophy if you're bidding your maximum in the last minute. If you put in your max bid early you are just asking to have the item bid up in small increments. I think people also have difficulty distinguishing the highest price they would be happy to pay and the highest price they're willing to pay.

I agree nobody except the ones bidding know for sure. Watching the auctions closely, I felt that these books sold for much more than they would have without the soft end times.

 

I agree with both of you.

 

I think the Actions would have went higher than they did at the end of the original soft time if there was a hard end time. I also think though that the soft end time raised the final price at least about $5,000. I think at that point, the 2 top bidders went back and forth a few times and went above their planned MAX bid. Once you're that close to a book you really want, whats another few % to get it. Soft end time definitely helped those Actions imo.

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself. How can they have gone higher with a hard end time yet had a monetary raise of at least $5000 with a soft?

 

Apparently i didnt explain it very well.

 

Knowing there was a soft end time and they could raise it, i dont think that the top bidders put in their actual max bid like they would have with a hard end time. That being the case, i think with a soft end time, the hammer price at the original end time(before any extended bidding) was lower than if there was a hard end time.

 

BUT, i do think the extended bidding took the final price over what it would have been if there wasa hard end time. I was watching that extended bidding and i would bet that the last 2 bidders went over their PLANNED max bid at least a couple times during the extended bidding (thumbs u

Edited September 8, 2011 by sufunk

[The Troll King]

I've rarely, if ever, had buyer's remorse for an item I really wanted when I have time to think about my bids and react to what's going on around me. I can't say the same for hard stop auctions where I've had to put in an unusually high swipe bid to give me the best chance of winning.

 

Same here!

 

I actually had buyers remorse for the underbidder on an item last week. I don't have the time to sit around a computer all day to watch auctions end so I put in a final day bid on an item for $167.89 on eBay which was well above the current bid.

 

When it ended I looked at the bid history. It was obvious that someone had put in a snipe bid. Their amount? $167.00

I won the item over them by 89 cents. Sure I was happy to have actually gotten the item but at the same time I felt bad for the underbidder because they may have really wanted it as well.

 

It is a nice piece.

 

 

Also to note: Soft bid times also would generate more revenue based on full auction increments being met rather than my example above where I won the item by an increment of $0.89.

 

I honestly believe that you would start to see what things are really worth and valued at with soft end times in auctions. I believe many items are over-inflated yet at the same time you would see the generally rarer items go for even higher. If this were the case, even with the same book in different grades you would see a greater spread in price between high and low grade.

[The Troll King]

I'm not so sure that soft end times achieves higher prices in an online environment. I think the fact that you don't get a second chance with a hard end time encourages people to put in higher swipe bids than they otherwise might. Historically, I think that, more than anything else, has accounted for a lot of the crazy prices that Clink has produced over the years. I'd have to think that Josh would have changed the Clink bidding system if he wasn't seeing this effect. Same with Ebay.

If I remember correctly, the Atlantic City copy of Action #10 recieved bids during soft end times, resulting in a higher hammer price of over $50,000 or more. Same thing with the Action #13

 

It's difficult to use any of these items are arguing points. Who's to say the action 10 would not have achieved a higher price with a hard end time? The reason people put in bids during the soft end time is because they were allowed to put in bids, and they knew this before the auction started.

 

Bid your maximum and let it ride is only a good philosophy if you're bidding your maximum in the last minute. If you put in your max bid early you are just asking to have the item bid up in small increments. I think people also have difficulty distinguishing the highest price they would be happy to pay and the highest price they're willing to pay.

I agree nobody except the ones bidding know for sure. Watching the auctions closely, I felt that these books sold for much more than they would have without the soft end times.

 

I agree with both of you.

 

I think the Actions would have went higher than they did at the end of the original soft time if there was a hard end time. I also think though that the soft end time raised the final price at least about $5,000. I think at that point, the 2 top bidders went back and forth a few times and went above their planned MAX bid. Once you're that close to a book you really want, whats another few % to get it. Soft end time definitely helped those Actions imo.

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself. How can they have gone higher with a hard end time yet had a monetary raise of at least $5000 with a soft?

 

Apparently i didnt explain it very well.

 

Knowing there was a soft end time and they could raise it, i dont think that the top bidders put in their actual max bid like they would have with a hard end time. That being the case, i think with a soft end time, the hammer price at the original end time(before any extended bidding) was lower than if there was a hard end time.

 

BUT, i do think the extended bidding took the final price over what it would have been if there wasa hard end time. I was watching that extended bidding and i would bet that the last 2 bidders went over their PLANNED max bid at least a couple times during the extended bidding (thumbs u

 

Gotcha.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I actually had buyers remorse for the underbidder on an item last week. I don't have the time to sit around a computer all day to watch auctions end so I put in a final day bid on an item for $167.89 on eBay which was well above the current bid.

 

When it ended I looked at the bid history. It was obvious that someone had put in a snipe bid. Their amount? $167.00

I won the item over them by 89 cents. Sure I was happy to have actually gotten the item but at the same time I felt bad for the underbidder because they may have really wanted it as well.

 

Just a side note, most bidders add cents to their bid for that exact reason. When they don't it's a sign that it could be a shill bid (although it's far from being conclusive).

 

Also to note: Soft bid times also would generate more revenue based on full auction increments being met rather than my example above where I won the item by an increment of $0.89.

 

Which translates to buyers pay more. Out of curiosity, are you a dealer or do you generally sell a lot of comics?

 

I honestly believe that you would start to see what things are really worth and valued at with soft end times in auctions. I believe many items are over-inflated yet at the same time you would see the generally rarer items go for even higher. If this were the case, even with the same book in different grades you would see a greater spread in price between high and low grade.

 

I disagree. I think when people calmly and rationally come up with the most they're willing to pay that's the true value. When the auction was due to close, your adrenaline is pumping and you're in a bidding war on something you've been watching for days or weeks, I don't think the result reflects true value.

[sufunk]

I know ive done it on Pedigree and comicconnect before.

 

The last Pedigree Grand auction there was a book i really wanted and i had planned a MAX bid of $1750. I put that in with about an hour left with the book sitting around $1000. I was pretty sure i was going to win it since it was still just at like $1200 with a few seconds left. Of course, a snipe hit my bid and sent it into extended bidding. I swore i wasnt going to go higher but did and ended up going to $1950 but still missed out as it went for like $1989.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who provided their knowledge and experience with ComicLink! (thumbs u

 

There's a couple that I'm looking at.

[DailySuperpower]

Your point is valid but I pose this to you as I know it's happened to myself and many others:

 

If I'm bidding on multiple items and things start to go higher than expected with a soft end time I would have the option of letting some go to focus my funds on those which I really want. Hard end times often can result in complete shut-outs. Less shut-out bidders results in more people being satisfied overall correct?

 

Once again, I just want the option of deciding for myself.

 

Even on that basis I think there's a much higher potential for buyers remorse. I don't think the heat of the moment when you're this close to grabbing that coveted item is the right time to be making decisions.

 

But even if you dismiss my take on that, the ultimate trump card (again from the buyer's perspective) is higher prices. I've never met a single buyer who doesn't try like hell to get the most bang for his buck when he buys comics. You need to have something seriously compelling if you're going to claim buyers are going to pay more and be more satisfied. I really don't think you've even come close to making that case.

 

Now, a soft end better for the auction house and the seller? Sure.

 

I'm fine with paying slightly higher prices on books I want if it means having a fair shot at those books, which I think extended bidding offers. I only buy and I would like to see extended bidding on every auction I participate in. More money for sellers means more sellers participating, which means more books offered.

 

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

I'm fine with paying slightly higher prices on books I want if it means having a fair shot at those books, which I think extended bidding offers. I only buy and I would like to see extended bidding on every auction I participate in. More money for sellers means more sellers participating, which means more books offered.

 

 

I guess that all depends on scale and the budget that the buyer is working with. For me if there was a $50 comic that was hard to find and I really wanted it, I wouldn't lose sleep over spending 60 or even 70 for it.

 

A $1000 comic it would be frustrating to have to shell out an addition couple or few hundred in a bidding war. But then Warren Buffet would be all too happy to throw down $2000 worth of go-away money.

 

Most collectors aren't high rollers and really shop around for deals, and many try their luck bidding on auctions for that great deal. I've struck many of them on coins. Mind you I've also paid a slight premium if it's something I really wanted. But never having the joy of a great deal I would be less inclined to do that from time to time.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add that with a hard close time your shot at the comic is just as fair. Sure, with a soft close you can change your mind about your max bid and keep it going. But then, so can everyone else. In the end no matter how you shake it only one person wins.

Edited September 8, 2011 by USArmyParatrooper

[The Troll King]

I actually had buyers remorse for the underbidder on an item last week. I don't have the time to sit around a computer all day to watch auctions end so I put in a final day bid on an item for $167.89 on eBay which was well above the current bid.

 

When it ended I looked at the bid history. It was obvious that someone had put in a snipe bid. Their amount? $167.00

I won the item over them by 89 cents. Sure I was happy to have actually gotten the item but at the same time I felt bad for the underbidder because they may have really wanted it as well.

 

Just a side note, most bidders add cents to their bid for that exact reason. When they don't it's a sign that it could be a shill bid (although it's far from being conclusive).

 

I disagree. Most experienced bidders maybe, but most bidders wouldn't even consider this I believe. My wife would never of thought to do this because she is not an experienced bidder.

Also to note: Soft bid times also would generate more revenue based on full auction increments being met rather than my example above where I won the item by an increment of $0.89.

 

Which translates to buyers pay more. Out of curiosity, are you a dealer or do you generally sell a lot of comics?

 

I very rarely sell comics. Although, I own some that I know several people would like to have.

I honestly believe that you would start to see what things are really worth and valued at with soft end times in auctions. I believe many items are over-inflated yet at the same time you would see the generally rarer items go for even higher. If this were the case, even with the same book in different grades you would see a greater spread in price between high and low grade.

 

I disagree. I think when people calmly and rationally come up with the most they're willing to pay that's the true value. When the auction was due to close, your adrenaline is pumping and you're in a bidding war on something you've been watching for days or weeks, I don't think the result reflects true value.

 

Why does it matter any less about the adrenaline value over the preconceived lowball "max" that you imagined. Afterall, I doubt many people plan on paying at or over FMV with their "max" bid. As you yourself stated, you're looking for a "deal". It's the late action that causes that to go up. If it weren't for that, value on the top-tier items would increase even slower than they do now.

 

Here's a notion... auctions aren't meant to always be a "deal" and never have been. Sure there are deals to be had but I doubt Sotheby's or Bonham's is looking to sell anything as a "deal" to anyone.

 

If you want "deals" go to flea markets and garage sales.

[The Troll King]

I'm fine with paying slightly higher prices on books I want if it means having a fair shot at those books, which I think extended bidding offers. I only buy and I would like to see extended bidding on every auction I participate in. More money for sellers means more sellers participating, which means more books offered.

 

 

I guess that all depends on scale and the budget that the buyer is working with. For me if there was a $50 comic that was hard to find and I really wanted it, I wouldn't lose sleep over spending 60 or even 70 for it.

 

A $1000 comic it would be frustrating to have to shell out an addition couple or few hundred in a bidding war. But then Warren Buffet would be all too happy to throw down $2000 worth of go-away money.

 

Most collectors aren't high rollers and really shop around for deals, and many try their luck bidding on auctions for that great deal. I've struck many of them on coins. Mind you I've also paid a slight premium if it's something I really wanted. But never having the joy of a great deal I would be less inclined to do that from time to time.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add that with a hard close time your shot at the comic is just as fair. Sure, with a soft close you can change your mind about your max bid and keep it going. But then, so can everyone else. In the end no matter how you shake it only one person wins.

 

I'm not sure I would call any comic valued at $50 "hard to find", sorry.

[my_stuff-migration]

I actually had buyers remorse for the underbidder on an item last week. I don't have the time to sit around a computer all day to watch auctions end so I put in a final day bid on an item for $167.89 on eBay which was well above the current bid.

 

When it ended I looked at the bid history. It was obvious that someone had put in a snipe bid. Their amount? $167.00

I won the item over them by 89 cents. Sure I was happy to have actually gotten the item but at the same time I felt bad for the underbidder because they may have really wanted it as well.

 

Just a side note, most bidders add cents to their bid for that exact reason. When they don't it's a sign that it could be a shill bid (although it's far from being conclusive).

 

Anyone who ends their bids in zero zero ($1.00) is either a complete Noob or a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

 

[Aman619]

I dont think you can definitely answer the question whether soft or hard ends create higher prices. With a hard ending on a book you have to have, you arre forced to pick a huge final bid or risk losing it. Downside is running up against someone else playing the same strategy.

 

But in a soft end, you wouldn't put up your absolute highest bid, allowing you to gradually get there depending on the competition.

 

You could argue that either auction could yield higher final prices given the number of serious bidders and the strength of their competition.... or lower. Say you win at the close of a soft end on a bargain price. You can now lose it in a sudden death bidding war. On the other hand, with a soft end, you get to rethink your win at all costs bidding as the after hours progresses.

[Spiderturtle]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2011 at 12:17 PM, Aman619 said:

I dont think you can definitely answer the question whether soft or hard ends create higher prices. With a hard ending on a book you have to have, you arre forced to pick a huge final bid or risk losing it. Downside is running up against someone else playing the same strategy.

 

But in a soft end, you wouldn't put up your absolute highest bid, allowing you to gradually get there depending on the competition.

 

You could argue that either auction could yield higher final prices given the number of serious bidders and the strength of their competition.... or lower. Say you win at the close of a soft end on a bargain price. You can now lose it in a sudden death bidding war. On the other hand, with a soft end, you get to rethink your win at all costs bidding as the after hours progresses.

I think the hard end will give a higher price since if you really want a book you and another serious bidder are forced to pick a huge bid.