Tec 27 Restored Moderate 8.5 (P)

[Mr. 10%]

Rick didn't trot out the "purple label stigma" horse, nor has he ever to my recollection.

 

I have no problem with the purple label, I collect books that are restored, I also collect unrestored books. The purple label is not a deterrent to me.

 

I have no issue with it at all. I've said many times before, the only issue with CGC's policy on restored books to me is the overly broad brush they paint the tiers with. That's it. The color is of no moment, and acutally helps those of us who seek out restored comics when they are on dealer's display racks at shows. Maybe you have super-vision, but as the years have gone by, I take all the help I can get

 

Rick was talking about the changes in perception and valuation, which I just pointed out were closely tied to the stigmatizing. I can certainly understand people seeking them out, as they've been devalued to the point that they can be had for less than books which are not, actually, in as good a shape, and even if the "work" were counted as simply additional defects on top of the ones supposedly coverd up. It can seem a way to get bargains, but it's also a reminder that things can be artificially and remarkably skewed, so you need to take into account not only what may be done by others to skew it in one direction or another

 

One can just approach the situation as a limited "window" in which there is an opportunity to pick up some great bargains. Things might perhaps slowly change. Just look at Dark Knight thats currently un-loading some suuuuper cool blue label Pre robin Bat Tecs - apparently to finance a PLOD (rumour wants it that he might be targeting the big Tec comming up in C-cnect & HA in restored "format"). That move would have been frowned upon just some years ago. Even Ciorac couldnt condone this move.

 

 

 

[G.A.tor]

Rick didn't trot out the "purple label stigma" horse, nor has he ever to my recollection.

 

I have no problem with the purple label, I collect books that are restored, I also collect unrestored books. The purple label is not a deterrent to me.

 

I have no issue with it at all. I've said many times before, the only issue with CGC's policy on restored books to me is the overly broad brush they paint the tiers with. That's it. The color is of no moment, and acutally helps those of us who seek out restored comics when they are on dealer's display racks at shows. Maybe you have super-vision, but as the years have gone by, I take all the help I can get

 

Rick was talking about the changes in perception and valuation, which I just pointed out were closely tied to the stigmatizing. I can certainly understand people seeking them out, as they've been devalued to the point that they can be had for less than books which are not, actually, in as good a shape, and even if the "work" were counted as simply additional defects on top of the ones supposedly coverd up. It can seem a way to get bargains, but it's also a reminder that things can be artificially and remarkably skewed, so you need to take into account not only what may be done by others to skew it in one direction or another

 

One can just approach the situation as a limited "window" in which there is an opportunity to pick up some great bargains. Things might perhaps slowly change. Just look at Dark Knight thats currently un-loading some suuuuper cool blue label Pre robin Bat Tecs - apparently to finance a PLOD (rumour wants it that he might be targeting the big Tec comming up in C-cnect & HA in restored "format"). That move would have been frowned upon just some years ago. Even Ciorac couldnt condone this move.

 

 

dark knight is not sellling his pre robin tecs for a tec 27 (plod or otherwise)

[Mr. 10%]

Rick didn't trot out the "purple label stigma" horse, nor has he ever to my recollection.

 

I have no problem with the purple label, I collect books that are restored, I also collect unrestored books. The purple label is not a deterrent to me.

 

I have no issue with it at all. I've said many times before, the only issue with CGC's policy on restored books to me is the overly broad brush they paint the tiers with. That's it. The color is of no moment, and acutally helps those of us who seek out restored comics when they are on dealer's display racks at shows. Maybe you have super-vision, but as the years have gone by, I take all the help I can get

 

Rick was talking about the changes in perception and valuation, which I just pointed out were closely tied to the stigmatizing. I can certainly understand people seeking them out, as they've been devalued to the point that they can be had for less than books which are not, actually, in as good a shape, and even if the "work" were counted as simply additional defects on top of the ones supposedly coverd up. It can seem a way to get bargains, but it's also a reminder that things can be artificially and remarkably skewed, so you need to take into account not only what may be done by others to skew it in one direction or another

 

One can just approach the situation as a limited "window" in which there is an opportunity to pick up some great bargains. Things might perhaps slowly change. Just look at Dark Knight thats currently un-loading some suuuuper cool blue label Pre robin Bat Tecs - apparently to finance a PLOD (rumour wants it that he might be targeting the big Tec comming up in C-cnect & HA in restored "format"). That move would have been frowned upon just some years ago. Even Ciorac couldnt condone this move.

 

 

dark knight is not sellling his pre robin tecs for a tec 27 (plod or otherwise)

 

If you say so. But I am just pointing to the fact that "people" speculated in that direction (I.e. as something "desirable" to do).

[Mr. 10%]

 

The 7.5 plod on C-link is already at 50K +plus change and climbing. 17 days to go.

Is that steep or cheap?

[bluechip]

The 7.5 plod on C-link is already at 50K +plus change and climbing. 17 days to go.

Is that steep or cheap?

 

I would say cheap, unless 1) there is a very larger number of undiscovered or counted tec 27s out there I don't know about (but that would affect ALL copies to some extent), and 2) the book has soooo much work done to it that it was fugly in the first place and you could get a virtually identical copy in its unrestored state for much less.

 

 

[Mr. 10%]

The 7.5 plod on C-link is already at 50K +plus change and climbing. 17 days to go.

Is that steep or cheap?

 

I would say cheap, unless 1) there is a very larger number of undiscovered or counted tec 27s out there I don't know about (but that would affect ALL copies to some extent), and 2) the book has soooo much work done to it that it was fugly in the first place and you could get a virtually identical copy in its unrestored state for much less.

 

 

Well your option #2 Bluechip - cant it be Nay'ed? It is a Mod book. So work needs to be ... "Mod". And universal books still sell for more than equivalent plod books do.

Example:

a blue 3.5 book = 10K

The blue 3.5 book moderately restored to 7.5 = 2 K (FMV)

 

Thats pretty much how "the message" have been spelled out here on the boards for some while now Imho.

 

And regarding your option #1. I'd say No: there are what - 200 copies of the big Tec around. Is that a figure that could gain acceptance?

 

So I guess 50K looks like a what?

(i) bargain ?

(ii) wholesale price ?

 

 

EDIT: Isnt the current Census figure 49 copies?

[rjpb]

And universal books still sell for more than equivalent plod books do.

Example:

a blue 3.5 book = 10K

The blue 3.5 book moderately restored to 7.5 = 2 K (FMV)

 

Thats pretty much how "the message" have been spelled out here on the boards for some while now Imho.

 

 

Moderate resto is tricky to judge in the abstract - as by description some sound more like "extensive" and others closer to "slight", but I find it hard to believe that a unrestored book in 3.5 would routinely sell for 5x a Mod. 7.5 PLOD.

 

Any book worth 10K in 3.5, would likely fetch at least 3K for an unrestored 1.5 - unless it was completely brittle or defaced - in which case it would probably a 1.0 anyway. I can't see a mod. 7.5 selling for less than an unrestored 1.5. There is probably a broader range in price for mod. restored books, but I'm guessing that FMV for a mod. 7.5 is generally closer to 50% of an unrestored 3.5 than 20%, if not higher. Still, the point is taken, that restoration can devalue a book more readily than increase it's value, especially if the original grade was better than 2.0.

[bluechip]

The 7.5 plod on C-link is already at 50K +plus change and climbing. 17 days to go.

Is that steep or cheap?

 

I would say cheap, unless 1) there is a very larger number of undiscovered or counted tec 27s out there I don't know about (but that would affect ALL copies to some extent), and 2) the book has soooo much work done to it that it was fugly in the first place and you could get a virtually identical copy in its unrestored state for much less.

 

 

Well your option #2 Bluechip - cant it be Nay'ed? It is a Mod book. So work needs to be ... "Mod". And universal books still sell for more than equivalent plod books do.

Example:

a blue 3.5 book = 10K

The blue 3.5 book moderately restored to 7.5 = 2 K (FMV)

 

Thats pretty much how "the message" have been spelled out here on the boards for some while now Imho.

 

And regarding your option #1. I'd say No: there are what - 200 copies of the big Tec around. Is that a figure that could gain acceptance?

 

So I guess 50K looks like a what?

(i) bargain ?

(ii) wholesale price ?

 

 

EDIT: Isnt the current Census figure 49 copies?

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "Nay'd."

 

I think if there are only a few hundred copies of this book in any condition then 50K is a bargain price, especially if the book was in decent shape to begin with and the resto, if counted as defects, would not drop the book below a low grade. The way mod resto is calculated, it sometimes results in books that appear several grades better than similar numbered blue label books, and have far, far less total alterations or damage (either in typical wear or resto "work") than a book which sells for many times more. So, in this case you could have a book that would get an honest unbiased 3.0 or so if the "resto" was undone to unseal the tears and rip away the color touch AND you added on a lot amounts of scribbles and additional tears. Which would mean that, simply because ot the hate factor, you'd have to pay several times more for a book that was not only in worse condition but had also, actually, been altered far more from its original state. So, that, I would think, makes it a bargain.

[Mr. 10%]

And universal books still sell for more than equivalent plod books do.

Example:

a blue 3.5 book = 10K

The blue 3.5 book moderately restored to 7.5 = 2 K (FMV)

 

Thats pretty much how "the message" have been spelled out here on the boards for some while now Imho.

 

 

Moderate resto is tricky to judge in the abstract - as by description some sound more like "extensive" and others closer to "slight", but I find it hard to believe that a unrestored book in 3.5 would routinely sell for 5x a Mod. 7.5 PLOD.

 

Any book worth 10K in 3.5, would likely fetch at least 3K for an unrestored 1.5 - unless it was completely brittle or defaced - in which case it would probably a 1.0 anyway. I can't see a mod. 7.5 selling for less than an unrestored 1.5. There is probably a broader range in price for mod. restored books, but I'm guessing that FMV for a mod. 7.5 is generally closer to 50% of an unrestored 3.5 than 20%, if not higher. Still, the point is taken, that restoration can devalue a book more readily than increase it's value, especially if the original grade was better than 2.0.

 

Yes the example is abstract: my fault. I was thinking in the context of the big tec. On other books the math could obviously look much different.

Tec 27 blue 3.5 = worth 100%

Same Tec 27 moderately restored to apparent 7.5 (technuical grade) = worth 20% (i.e. 80% price reduction).

Does that kind of "broad stroke" FMV-algebra hold up in todays market?

 

If it does, - where does that leave a plod 7.5 in the light of a 4.0 blue sitting on C-link (or C-cnect?) with a 300K price tag as we speak...

[Mr. 10%]

The 7.5 plod on C-link is already at 50K +plus change and climbing. 17 days to go.

Is that steep or cheap?

 

I would say cheap, unless 1) there is a very larger number of undiscovered or counted tec 27s out there I don't know about (but that would affect ALL copies to some extent), and 2) the book has soooo much work done to it that it was fugly in the first place and you could get a virtually identical copy in its unrestored state for much less.

 

 

Well your option #2 Bluechip - cant it be Nay'ed? It is a Mod book. So work needs to be ... "Mod". And universal books still sell for more than equivalent plod books do.

Example:

a blue 3.5 book = 10K

The blue 3.5 book moderately restored to 7.5 = 2 K (FMV)

 

Thats pretty much how "the message" have been spelled out here on the boards for some while now Imho.

 

And regarding your option #1. I'd say No: there are what - 200 copies of the big Tec around. Is that a figure that could gain acceptance?

 

So I guess 50K looks like a what?

(i) bargain ?

(ii) wholesale price ?

 

 

EDIT: Isnt the current Census figure 49 copies?

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "Nay'd."

 

I think if there are only a few hundred copies of this book in any condition then 50K is a bargain price, especially if the book was in decent shape to begin with and the resto, if counted as defects, would not drop the book below a low grade. The way mod resto is calculated, it sometimes results in books that appear several grades better than similar numbered blue label books, and have far, far less total alterations or damage (either in typical wear or resto "work") than a book which sells for many times more. So, in this case you could have a book that would get an honest unbiased 3.0 or so if the "resto" was undone to unseal the tears and rip away the color touch AND you added on a lot amounts of scribbles and additional tears. Which would mean that, simply because ot the hate factor, you'd have to pay several times more for a book that was not only in worse condition but had also, actually, been altered far more from its original state. So, that, I would think, makes it a bargain.

 

With "Nay'ed" I meant something like "left out of the equation". (My english is if not terrible, then developed only to a mediocre level).

If the book was downright fugly to begin with then obviously shelling out 50K on it would be

I meant that the book "only" being a Mod book couldnt have been terrible to begin with. Could that not rather safely be assumed?

[Mr. 10%]

 

On another note:

 

This Detective comics #28:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7039&lotNo=91211

 

And this Detective comics #28:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7039&lotNo=91305

 

How large a price diff. should be expected between these to?

 

The Ext. plod 6.5, - does it take us deep into Frankenberry territory? How deep?

What does the '' 4" of top cover married ' mean? The seal is not visible in the scan. Could it be that it was doctored?

 

 

 

 

[etanick]

I think you are thinking way too hard to trying to figure out the prices between PLOD and blue.

 

Unless it is the same grade, it is even harder.

 

the seal is not "very" visible on the TEC 28 because it was well done...otherwise, the restorer or owner might as well use a big piece of tape across to tape the top part of the cover with the new piece.

 

I am not sure I follow what you meant by this cover was "doctored"

 

[Mr. 10%]

I think you are thinking way too hard to trying to figure out the prices between PLOD and blue.

 

Unless it is the same grade, it is even harder.

 

the seal is not "very" visible on the TEC 28 because it was well done...otherwise, the restorer or owner might as well use a big piece of tape across to tape the top part of the cover with the new piece.

 

I am not sure I follow what you meant by this cover was "doctored"

 

I just "hypothesized" wether the scan could have been doctored (i.e. photoshopped) I mean it looks extremly nice. Will it look as nice in hand?

[bluechip]

The 7.5 plod on C-link is already at 50K +plus change and climbing. 17 days to go.

Is that steep or cheap?

 

I would say cheap, unless 1) there is a very larger number of undiscovered or counted tec 27s out there I don't know about (but that would affect ALL copies to some extent), and 2) the book has soooo much work done to it that it was fugly in the first place and you could get a virtually identical copy in its unrestored state for much less.

 

 

Well your option #2 Bluechip - cant it be Nay'ed? It is a Mod book. So work needs to be ... "Mod". And universal books still sell for more than equivalent plod books do.

Example:

a blue 3.5 book = 10K

The blue 3.5 book moderately restored to 7.5 = 2 K (FMV)

 

Thats pretty much how "the message" have been spelled out here on the boards for some while now Imho.

 

And regarding your option #1. I'd say No: there are what - 200 copies of the big Tec around. Is that a figure that could gain acceptance?

 

So I guess 50K looks like a what?

(i) bargain ?

(ii) wholesale price ?

 

 

EDIT: Isnt the current Census figure 49 copies?

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "Nay'd."

 

I think if there are only a few hundred copies of this book in any condition then 50K is a bargain price, especially if the book was in decent shape to begin with and the resto, if counted as defects, would not drop the book below a low grade. The way mod resto is calculated, it sometimes results in books that appear several grades better than similar numbered blue label books, and have far, far less total alterations or damage (either in typical wear or resto "work") than a book which sells for many times more. So, in this case you could have a book that would get an honest unbiased 3.0 or so if the "resto" was undone to unseal the tears and rip away the color touch AND you added on a lot amounts of scribbles and additional tears. Which would mean that, simply because ot the hate factor, you'd have to pay several times more for a book that was not only in worse condition but had also, actually, been altered far more from its original state. So, that, I would think, makes it a bargain.

 

With "Nay'ed" I meant something like "left out of the equation". (My english is if not terrible, then developed only to a mediocre level).

If the book was downright fugly to begin with then obviously shelling out 50K on it would be

I meant that the book "only" being a Mod book couldnt have been terrible to begin with. Could that not rather safely be assumed?

 

I think it is safe to assume that it was pretty nice to begin with. "Moderate" restoration generally means an amount that people outside the hobby would consider slight. Just like "good" condition means what most people outside the hobby would consider "fair" or even beat up or poor. So, if it was nice in the first place, and it's graded more harshly than an unrestored book, then it's quite possbile or even likely that the book was a vg or better to begin and that it's had only minor amounts of ink or glue added. And since the lower to mid grades allow for pretty large amounts of ink or glue, that means it would still have gotten a low to mid-grade if the resto was considered an additonal defect. (in fact it could have had a whole lot MORE defects on top of it all). Which means at 50K or above 100K you're still paying a whole lot less for it than you would for another vg book which has, ultimately, a whole lot more defects and a whole lot more post-printing alterations of any kind.

 

 

[etanick]

nah...no photoshopped needed...the restoration is just well done and HA's scans are very good in general in showing all the details. If you have trained eyes in detecting restorations, you can probably guess where the seals are on the cover..especially when the label mentions about the top 4 inches.

[Mr. 10%]

On another note. This one is getting a lot of attention (isnt it):

 

The Tec27 Plod 7.5

Currently at 66K

15 days to go (+ live auction)

 

 

Go figure !