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Avengers 1 or 4, which is more significant?

Started by Hawkman23,

83 posts in this topic

USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

Posted
Posted
#4 is more significant than #1. Cap was, by far, the most important creation of Timely, and his return back into the new Marvel universe is only slightly less important than the major first apps. #1 features no first appearances, and is important solely because it's "#1."

 

Neither #1 nor #4 are first appearances of any character, but #1 is at least the first appearance and origin of the Avengers team.

 

Being the first appearance of the Avengers team does matter, or so the market has decided. Their census numbers are similar and #1 isn't so much more valuable just because it's a first issue. No doubt had the Avengers team been introduced in a different comic, #1 would be worth considerably less than 4.

 

It's only worth more because it has a "1" on the cover.

 

Had it been issue #93 of Long Running Marvel Title, and Cap's first SA app was #96, #96 would be worth more.

 

Bologna. Iron Man 1 is a silver age comic that has that flashy "1" on the cover and it's worth about $150 in 5.5. Avengers 1 goes for over $2000 in that same grade. Why such a enormous price difference? Iron Man 1 is NOT the first appearance of Iron Man. Sure, Iron Man 1 has a fair bit more copies on the census, but not enough to justify selling for 14X the price.

 

How does Wolverine 1 from the 1982 mini-series, with that flashy "1", compare price wise to Hulk 181?

 

There are TONS of first issue comics that are completely worthless. You are insane to suggest the "1" on the cover is even close to being as meaningful to being the first appearance and origin of the Avengers team.

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USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

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#1

 

Being a number 1 has meaning over and above "Just a number"

This is the first marvel team made of the random various characters, ie Marvels answer to JLA (much moreso than FF IMO). This is a preclude to Defenders, Champions, even the Invaders and the New X-men (I consider Xmen 1 a copycat of FF 1)

 

I might be willing to go with #4 if there were no Strange Tales 114, that kills the purity of the first SA appearance for me.

 

Plus I'd rather have a JLA 28 than a Showcase 22 for the same reasons.

 

Ed

 

Being a number 1 has marginal significance.

 

First Appearance rules all else.

 

First issue of a popular character's own series does have some, but less meaning. And even the significance of that is greatly reduced if it's not the (first) of that character's own series. Think - AF15, ASM 1, then all other subsequent Spider-man series.

 

Oh, and XM-1 is a copycat of FF-1? How so, besides the fact that they're a superhero team, which FF-1 isn't even close to being the first?

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James Howlett

James Howlett

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I have both and I vote for Avengers 4.

 

Has anyone noticed that of the Marvel Golden Record Reprints (listed below), Marvel selected Avengers 4 and not Av 1?

 

Spider-Man 1

Fantastic Four 1

JIM 83

Avengers 4

 

 

I have both and I vote for AV 1. Anyone notice that marvel selected spider-man 1 and not AF 15? :baiting:

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chrisco37

chrisco37

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I have both and I vote for Avengers 4.

 

Has anyone noticed that of the Marvel Golden Record Reprints (listed below), Marvel selected Avengers 4 and not Av 1?

 

Spider-Man 1

Fantastic Four 1

JIM 83

Avengers 4

 

 

I have both and I vote for AV 1. Anyone notice that marvel selected spider-man 1 and not AF 15? :baiting:

 

Probably b/c AF#15 has other stories as well. ASM is all Spidey.

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ft88

ft88

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Oh, and XM-1 is a copycat of FF-1? How so, besides the fact that they're a superhero team, which FF-1 isn't even close to being the first?

 

Well, on issue #1 Stan Lee/Marvel itself says "In the Sensational Fantastic Four style."

 

Same with Daredevil being a copy of Spiderman (also mentioned on the cover). Marvel found a winner and they copied it with minor differences, simple as that.

 

Let's see

 

Mr. Fantastic = ____________

Human Torch = ____________

Invisible Girl = ____________

Thing = _____________

 

There's no question which of the Xmen fill in the blank. The school house and Prof X were new as were the powers but you can almost hear Stan Lee. "Hey guys, we have a winner with FF, lets take advantage and create another team just like them but different. Jack, get on it."

 

 

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USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

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Oh, and XM-1 is a copycat of FF-1? How so, besides the fact that they're a superhero team, which FF-1 isn't even close to being the first?

 

Well, on issue #1 Stan Lee/Marvel itself says "In the Sensational Fantastic Four style."

 

Same with Daredevil being a copy of Spiderman (also mentioned on the cover). Marvel found a winner and they copied it with minor differences, simple as that.

 

Let's see

 

Mr. Fantastic = ____________

Human Torch = ____________

Invisible Girl = ____________

Thing = _____________

 

There's no question which of the Xmen fill in the blank. The school house and Prof X were new as were the powers but you can almost hear Stan Lee. "Hey guys, we have a winner with FF, lets take advantage and create another team just like them but different. Jack, get on it."

 

 

Sorry, but you haven't given me any substantive similarities at all. All you've given me is marketing themes put out by Marvel at the time.

 

Fantastic Four is a team of Superheroes.

 

X-men is a team of Superheroes.

 

Beyond that, how is X-men a copycat of FF?

 

BTW, the Human Torch was stolen from Carl Burgos' Human Torch.

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ft88

ft88

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BTW, the Human Torch was stolen from Carl Burgos' Human Torch.

 

I don't get it. Next you'll tell me Mr. Fantastic is a copy of Plastic Man, as if.

 

OK, well there are 4 in the team, one of which is a female with similar powers. The opposite of Human Torch is Ice-man. The strong man in Thing is the strong man in X-men. OK, Cyclops is different than Stretcho, but he is the quirky leader who can't quite express himself etc etc.

 

The point is the Xmen are leaps and bounds closer to a copy of the FF than the Avengers were. How we define "copy" or "substantive similarities" is probably where we have our differences and that's fine. Would you agree that the Xmen are more similar to the FF than the Avengers?

 

Relative to the 1 vs 4 debate is that I see the Avengers origin and creation as a relatively important and original concept in the marvel universe. While Cap is great and worthy of being a mega SA key, Avengers 1 barely wins out for me.

 

 

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USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

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The X-men were a five man team. If Cyclopse is your Mr. Fantastic, who is Pro X? I see Beast as vaguely similar to the Thing, Iceman being opposite Torch is fair, and the females' powers are completey different. Invisible Shield / Invisibility vs. Telepathy / Telekinesis.

 

I just see what similarities exist to be what's expected from the same writer. For example, Hulk/FF/Spider-man all got there powers in some way from radiation. Same writer type similarity. The X-men storyline is completey different, and dramatically altered the MU

 

But this is all just a matter of perspective.

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divad

divad

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Relative to the 1 vs 4 debate is that I see the Avengers origin and creation as a relatively important and original concept in the marvel universe. While Cap is great and worthy of being a mega SA key, Avengers 1 barely wins out for me.

 

 

The last panel alone says it all. ;)

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