The check that bought Superman

[markseifert]

After all, THEY wrote the check, and after it cleared it was returned to them. I can't imagine their ever letting this check out of their possession since it showed that DC considered Superman work-for-hire, and S&S signed off.

 

And it was used in court in at least the Wonder Man case (possibly other times? but if so there are no markings as such). Where does such evidence go after a trial is over? Back to the property owner, I'd presume? Which would in this case be DC... I guess?

 

 

[Bronty]

Ehhhhhh this is awesome but I am a bit bearish on value. It's a check. While an incredibly neat check, it's a check.

[esquirecomics]

It was always speculated that DC had this check - that it was hidden away deep in the bowels of DC's offices. After all, THEY wrote the check, and after it cleared it was returned to them. I can't imagine their ever letting this check out of their possession since it showed that DC considered Superman work-for-hire, and S&S signed off.

 

I can't wait to hear the story!

 

Not much info will be known regarding the story. It was not in DC's possession. How it got out of their possession could be explained numerous ways.

 

The original contracts are still in DC's possession so they will not be coming to market anytime soon, if ever (at least legally).

[tonytiger]

Ehhhhhh this is awesome but I am a bit bearish on value. It's a check. While an incredibly neat check, it's a check.

 

A very interesting observation. Certainly from the point of view of a comic book collector who would value the printed comic higher than the signed document between DC and Siegel/Shuster. On the other hand, an autograph collector or document collector would look at the printed comic book and value the check much higher.

[bluechip]

Ehhhhhh this is awesome but I am a bit bearish on value. It's a check. While an incredibly neat check, it's a check.

 

A very interesting observation. Certainly from the point of view of a comic book collector who would value the printed comic higher than the signed document between DC and Siegel/Shuster. On the other hand, an autograph collector or document collector would look at the printed comic book and value the check much higher.

 

Many wealthy people out there are, quite naturally, fascinated by the art of the deal, and the history behind big successful enterprises. And that check is the financial beginning of the whole superhero industry.

 

 

 

 

[Bronty]

Ehhhhhh this is awesome but I am a bit bearish on value. It's a check. While an incredibly neat check, it's a check.

 

A very interesting observation. Certainly from the point of view of a comic book collector who would value the printed comic higher than the signed document between DC and Siegel/Shuster. On the other hand, an autograph collector or document collector would look at the printed comic book and value the check much higher.

 

I understand that but there just isn't enough 'document' there for my liking. And if all I want is the autograph well any random item signed by Siegel will do.

 

I can see maybe 10k but I can't imagine much more

[tonytiger]

Ehhhhhh this is awesome but I am a bit bearish on value. It's a check. While an incredibly neat check, it's a check.

 

A very interesting observation. Certainly from the point of view of a comic book collector who would value the printed comic higher than the signed document between DC and Siegel/Shuster. On the other hand, an autograph collector or document collector would look at the printed comic book and value the check much higher.

 

I understand that but there just isn't enough 'document' there for my liking. And if all I want is the autograph well any random item signed by Siegel will do.

 

I can see maybe 10k but I can't imagine much more

 

So the check is worth the same as say a pretty sharp Spiderman #2?

[esquirecomics]

This check has "value" (and what that value can obviously vary significantly from one person to another) for several reasons, among them (and in no particular order):

 

(1) It is a piece of history simply by being a check from the early days of DC;

(2) Multiple signatures of both of Superman's co-creators;

(3) It was a court exhibit in the Superman v. Wonderman lawsuit (Bruns v. Fox);

(4) It is particularly tied to the creation of Superman and the purchase by DC of Superman's legal rights. This is THE check that was tied to the determination that Superman was a work-for-hire. And, of course, it reflects payment for other works too.

 

I would buy it if only even one of the above reasons existed.

 

My conservative estimate of sale is between $5,000 - $20,000, with the likelihood it will reach $10,000. Of course, these numbers can go out the door if two rich guys decide they want this one-of-a-kind item.

[esquirecomics]

BTW, a recent related story:

 

Super Suit To Go On

 

 

'Super' suit to go on

Judge won't throw out Warner Bros.' lawsuit

By TED JOHNSON

 

'Superman'

 

A federal judge is refusing to throw out Warner Bros.' suit against the attorney for the heirs to the creators of "Superman," who are poised to reclaim rights to the Man of Steel in 2013.

Marc Toberoff had sought to strike Warner Bros.' unit DC Comics suit against him under California's anti-SLAPP statute, which was designed to curb lawsuits with the intent of intimidating the opposition by delay and legal expense.

 

U.S. District Judge Otis Wright said that Toberoff had failed to show that his role as the attorney for the heirs to co-creators Jerome Siegel and Joseph Shuster was protected under the anti-SLAPP law. He cited a business agreement Toberoff made with the Shuster heirs, which Wright said was "not an agreement for the provision of legal services, but one concerning the exploitation of Joe Shuster's creations."

 

DC Comics, represented by Dan Petrocelli, sued Toberoff in May 2010, claiming that earlier in the decade he interfered with their relationships with Siegel's and Shuster's heirs to coax them out of settling with the studio and instead enter into an agreement with his own production ventures to exploit the "Superman" franchise.

 

Toberoff, who had no comment, has characterized the suit as "frivolous" and a way to pressure his clients into settling the case and selling back the rights at a reduced price. A provison of the Copyright Act allows creators and their heirs to recapture their creations under certain circumstances. Toberoff successfully recaptured portions of the "Superman" storyline for the Siegel heirs in two U.S. District Court decisions in 2008 and 2009, and the Shuster estate is seeking to recapture its rights in 2013.

 

In his filings, Toberoff said that for at least the past five years, he has only been on retainer with the Siegel heirs and Shuster's executor.

 

Toberoff's attorneys noted that he did not consult with the Siegels -- and had yet to meet with them -- when they dropped their attorneys at Gang, Tyre, Ramer & Brown and formally called off negotiations with DC Comics in September 2002. Only the next month, they said, did they contact him for representation. Two companies of his companies, IP Worldwide and Pacific Pictures, had agreements with the heirs but they have either been terminated or expired, Toberoff's filings noted.

 

Wright did not rule on whether Warner Bros. was likely to prevail on the merits of its suit, only whether it was covered by the anti-SLAPP statute. But he wrote that it gave the court "great pause" that a settlement agreement with the Shusters came undone.

 

He also ruled that Toberoff has to turn over a letter written by Laura Siegel Larson, Siegel's daughter, to her half brother. Warner Bros. believes the letter supports their claim that Toberoff "tortiously interfered" with their settlement with the Siegels.

 

[TheSurgeon]

This check has "value" (and what that value can obviously vary significantly from one person to another) for several reasons, among them (and in no particular order):

 

(1) It is a piece of history simply by being a check from the early days of DC;

(2) Multiple signatures of both of Superman's co-creators;

(3) It was a court exhibit in the Superman v. Wonderman lawsuit (Bruns v. Fox);

(4) It is particularly tied to the creation of Superman and the purchase by DC of Superman's legal rights. This is THE check that was tied to the determination that Superman was a work-for-hire. And, of course, it reflects payment for other works too.

 

I would buy it if only even one of the above reasons existed.

 

My conservative estimate of sale is between $5,000 - $20,000, with the likelihood it will reach $10,000. Of course, these numbers can go out the door if two rich guys decide they want this one-of-a-kind item.

 

Shouldn't you have posted something like, "The check really does not have much value. I don't see why anyone would want to bid on such a silly piece of paper. Can we just delete this whole thread?"

[Cat-Man_America]

When all is said and done what is missing from this discussion is a reality check.

 

As a landmark in the history of popular culture this one-of-a-kind document should be in a national museum, but that doesn't mean it won't reach an astronomical sum and find it's way into a private collection.

[esquirecomics]

This check has "value" (and what that value can obviously vary significantly from one person to another) for several reasons, among them (and in no particular order):

 

(1) It is a piece of history simply by being a check from the early days of DC;

(2) Multiple signatures of both of Superman's co-creators;

(3) It was a court exhibit in the Superman v. Wonderman lawsuit (Bruns v. Fox);

(4) It is particularly tied to the creation of Superman and the purchase by DC of Superman's legal rights. This is THE check that was tied to the determination that Superman was a work-for-hire. And, of course, it reflects payment for other works too.

 

I would buy it if only even one of the above reasons existed.

 

My conservative estimate of sale is between $5,000 - $20,000, with the likelihood it will reach $10,000. Of course, these numbers can go out the door if two rich guys decide they want this one-of-a-kind item.

 

Shouldn't you have posted something like, "The check really does not have much value. I don't see why anyone would want to bid on such a silly piece of paper. Can we just delete this whole thread?"

 

I thought about that.

 

Alas, I didn't think anyone would believe me.

[markseifert]

If something relatively unquantifiable comes up for sale, and I see an estimate and think to myself "man, I'd sure buy it for that" -- which I have thought to myself for many of the numbers tossed out so far -- then I KNOW to a certainty those numbers are too low. Heh.

 

Last time I felt this way was with those Tec 27 proof pages. Bid many times the estimate and still got blown away at hammer time.

[Bronty]

Ehhhhhh this is awesome but I am a bit bearish on value. It's a check. While an incredibly neat check, it's a check.

 

A very interesting observation. Certainly from the point of view of a comic book collector who would value the printed comic higher than the signed document between DC and Siegel/Shuster. On the other hand, an autograph collector or document collector would look at the printed comic book and value the check much higher.

 

I understand that but there just isn't enough 'document' there for my liking. And if all I want is the autograph well any random item signed by Siegel will do.

 

I can see maybe 10k but I can't imagine much more

 

So the check is worth the same as say a pretty sharp Spiderman #2?

 

 

I prefer to think of it as a pretty nice superman no 2

[sfcityduck]

When all is said and done what is missing from this discussion is a reality check.

 

As a landmark in the history of popular culture this one-of-a-kind document should be in a national museum, but that doesn't mean it won't reach an astronomical sum and find it's way into a private collection.

 

A little perspective: The Beatles first recording contract sold at auction earlier this year for $114K. The Beatles first management contract with Brian Epstein sold for $426K in 2008,

 

But this is not a contract. It's just a check. Checks signed by the Beatles can be had for hundreds of dollars. And the Beatles market is much more robust than the comic market, especially when it comes to autographs. There is not that much of a market for comic creator autographs. So I don't think it will net an "astronomical sum," by which I mean over six figures.

 

But this is a significant check. If I owned an Action 1, especially the Court Copy, this would be a nice ancillary piece to have and hang on the wall. Which is why I would be surprised if does not net $5K+. A Beatles concert contract with a very historically interesting no segregation clause recently went for $23K. I could see this ending up in that range for its historical value if two collectors go crazy. So I agree that a range of $5K to $25K seems pretty reasonable.

 

 

 

 

[Bookery]

If something relatively unquantifiable comes up for sale, and I see an estimate and think to myself "man, I'd sure buy it for that" -- which I have thought to myself for many of the numbers tossed out so far -- then I KNOW to a certainty those numbers are too low. Heh.

 

Last time I felt this way was with those Tec 27 proof pages. Bid many times the estimate and still got blown away at hammer time.

 

Exactly.

 

I am more fascinated by book history than comic history, and even I would pay $10k for it in an instant, and I don't bid in auctions. Eveyone is way low... I'd look to $50k+. (In better times, I'm sure Geppi would have easily paid that just to have it for his museum). I'm sure someone with a high-end Action #1 will want to pair it with this item.

 

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

When all is said and done what is missing from this discussion is a reality check.

 

As a landmark in the history of popular culture this one-of-a-kind document should be in a national museum, but that doesn't mean it won't reach an astronomical sum and find it's way into a private collection.

 

A little perspective: The Beatles first recording contract sold at auction earlier this year for $114K. The Beatles first management contract with Brian Epstein sold for $426K in 2008,

 

But this is not a contract. It's just a check. Checks signed by the Beatles can be had for hundreds of dollars. And the Beatles market is much more robust than the comic market, especially when it comes to autographs. There is not that much of a market for comic creator autographs. So I don't think it will net an "astronomical sum," by which I mean over six figures.

 

But this is a significant check. If I owned an Action 1, especially the Court Copy, this would be a nice ancillary piece to have and hang on the wall. Which is why I would be surprised if does not net $5K+. A Beatles concert contract with a very historically interesting no segregation clause recently went for $23K. I could see this ending up in that range for its historical value if two collectors go crazy. So I agree that a range of $5K to $25K seems pretty reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

I see the logic of your argument, but allow me to suggest a slightly different rationale for interest here. What makes the perceived value of this check unpredictable is that there is a "perfect storm" of quantifiable factors that may ratchet up bidding interest on the collector's market:

 

1) The Superman check is a one of a kind document (it is a singular check for the purchase of an iconic work).

 

2) It has historic significance (acquisition of the first phenomenally successful costumed comic character; one that has stood the test of time)

 

3) Even more historic significance (check was used as evidence in landmark court ruling defending the character copyright)

 

4) The symbolism of the check still has relevance today given the ongoing battles between the creator's estates and National (DC) over the character's true ownership.

 

5) The value of this check isn't so much about the autographs, but the unique history and symbolism. Granted, Beatle's checks are of significant interest to their memorabilia collectors, but there's probably more than just one Beatle's check on the market (ergo supply vs demand), and I'll wager that all four of them didn't sign those checks together as did Jerry Siegal and Joe Shuster.

[tonytiger]

When all is said and done what is missing from this discussion is a reality check.

 

As a landmark in the history of popular culture this one-of-a-kind document should be in a national museum, but that doesn't mean it won't reach an astronomical sum and find it's way into a private collection.

 

A little perspective: The Beatles first recording contract sold at auction earlier this year for $114K. The Beatles first management contract with Brian Epstein sold for $426K in 2008,

 

But this is not a contract. It's just a check. Checks signed by the Beatles can be had for hundreds of dollars. And the Beatles market is much more robust than the comic market, especially when it comes to autographs. There is not that much of a market for comic creator autographs. So I don't think it will net an "astronomical sum," by which I mean over six figures.

 

But this is a significant check. If I owned an Action 1, especially the Court Copy, this would be a nice ancillary piece to have and hang on the wall. Which is why I would be surprised if does not net $5K+. A Beatles concert contract with a very historically interesting no segregation clause recently went for $23K. I could see this ending up in that range for its historical value if two collectors go crazy. So I agree that a range of $5K to $25K seems pretty reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

I see the logic of your argument, but allow me to suggest a slightly different rationale for interest here. What makes the perceived value of this check unpredictable is that there is a "perfect storm" of quantifiable factors that may ratchet up bidding interest on the collector's market:

 

1) The Superman check is a one of a kind document (it is a singular check for the purchase of an iconic work).

 

2) It has historic significance (acquisition of the first phenomenally successful costumed comic character; one that has stood the test of time)

 

3) Even more historic significance (check was used as evidence in landmark court ruling defending the character copyright)

 

4) The symbolism of the check still has relevance today given the ongoing battles between the creator's estates and National (DC) over the character's true ownership.

 

5) The value of this check isn't so much about the autographs, but the unique history and symbolism. Granted, Beatle's checks are of significant interest to their memorabilia collectors, but there's probably more than just one Beatle's check on the market (ergo supply vs demand), and I'll wager that all four of them didn't sign those checks together as did Jerry Siegal and Joe Shuster.

 

Well said.

[esquirecomics]

When all is said and done what is missing from this discussion is a reality check.

 

As a landmark in the history of popular culture this one-of-a-kind document should be in a national museum, but that doesn't mean it won't reach an astronomical sum and find it's way into a private collection.

 

A little perspective: The Beatles first recording contract sold at auction earlier this year for $114K. The Beatles first management contract with Brian Epstein sold for $426K in 2008,

 

But this is not a contract. It's just a check. Checks signed by the Beatles can be had for hundreds of dollars. And the Beatles market is much more robust than the comic market, especially when it comes to autographs. There is not that much of a market for comic creator autographs. So I don't think it will net an "astronomical sum," by which I mean over six figures.

 

But this is a significant check. If I owned an Action 1, especially the Court Copy, this would be a nice ancillary piece to have and hang on the wall. Which is why I would be surprised if does not net $5K+. A Beatles concert contract with a very historically interesting no segregation clause recently went for $23K. I could see this ending up in that range for its historical value if two collectors go crazy. So I agree that a range of $5K to $25K seems pretty reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

I see the logic of your argument, but allow me to suggest a slightly different rationale for interest here. What makes the perceived value of this check unpredictable is that there is a "perfect storm" of quantifiable factors that may ratchet up bidding interest on the collector's market:

 

1) The Superman check is a one of a kind document (it is a singular check for the purchase of an iconic work).

 

2) It has historic significance (acquisition of the first phenomenally successful costumed comic character; one that has stood the test of time)

 

3) Even more historic significance (check was used as evidence in landmark court ruling defending the character copyright)

 

4) The symbolism of the check still has relevance today given the ongoing battles between the creator's estates and National (DC) over the character's true ownership.

 

5) The value of this check isn't so much about the autographs, but the unique history and symbolism. Granted, Beatle's checks are of significant interest to their memorabilia collectors, but there's probably more than just one Beatle's check on the market (ergo supply vs demand), and I'll wager that all four of them didn't sign those checks together as did Jerry Siegal and Joe Shuster.

 

Well said.

 

Didn't I already say that all up above? Man, no one listens to lawyers.

[bluechip]

When all is said and done what is missing from this discussion is a reality check.

 

As a landmark in the history of popular culture this one-of-a-kind document should be in a national museum, but that doesn't mean it won't reach an astronomical sum and find it's way into a private collection.

 

A little perspective: The Beatles first recording contract sold at auction earlier this year for $114K. The Beatles first management contract with Brian Epstein sold for $426K in 2008,

 

But this is not a contract. It's just a check. Checks signed by the Beatles can be had for hundreds of dollars. And the Beatles market is much more robust than the comic market, especially when it comes to autographs. There is not that much of a market for comic creator autographs. So I don't think it will net an "astronomical sum," by which I mean over six figures.

 

But this is a significant check. If I owned an Action 1, especially the Court Copy, this would be a nice ancillary piece to have and hang on the wall. Which is why I would be surprised if does not net $5K+. A Beatles concert contract with a very historically interesting no segregation clause recently went for $23K. I could see this ending up in that range for its historical value if two collectors go crazy. So I agree that a range of $5K to $25K seems pretty reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

I see the logic of your argument, but allow me to suggest a slightly different rationale for interest here. What makes the perceived value of this check unpredictable is that there is a "perfect storm" of quantifiable factors that may ratchet up bidding interest on the collector's market:

 

1) The Superman check is a one of a kind document (it is a singular check for the purchase of an iconic work).

 

2) It has historic significance (acquisition of the first phenomenally successful costumed comic character; one that has stood the test of time)

 

3) Even more historic significance (check was used as evidence in landmark court ruling defending the character copyright)

 

4) The symbolism of the check still has relevance today given the ongoing battles between the creator's estates and National (DC) over the character's true ownership.

 

5) The value of this check isn't so much about the autographs, but the unique history and symbolism. Granted, Beatle's checks are of significant interest to their memorabilia collectors, but there's probably more than just one Beatle's check on the market (ergo supply vs demand), and I'll wager that all four of them didn't sign those checks together as did Jerry Siegal and Joe Shuster.

 

Plus, nearly everybody drawing breath has heard all or part of the story of how these guys sold superman for 130 bucks. It's become a part of American lore.

 

If there were a check made out to all the Beatles that was their first ever paid gig and without which they would never have formed a band, resulting in a story that nearly everybody's heard about, then it would be more like this. Granted, Beatles stuff in general goes for more than comic stuff in general, but that gulf is not widening or holding steady, but narrowing.

 

BTW, I love the Manhattan Island story, but it annoys me every time I hear it because it didn't sell for 24 dollars; when the deal was made there was no such thing as an American dollar. The sale was actually for, as I recall, something like 60 guilders' worth of wampum, which was a fair price for it at the time.