Whats the best strategic timeline ?

[Senormac]

Ok .... someday, in years and perhaps years...... PGX will fold and go under. The business will fail or the owner will give up the ghost.

 

I own a few PGX, but I've "owned" a few more. Ones that I have cracked open to get to the book. Many many more than I have of cracking CGC'd books. Its like.... PGX company, being "the final word" on comic grading has failed.

 

As PGX goes along for its time.......thousands of them are bought up and put into collections around the world. CGC continues on in leadership as the years go by. More, better, faster...... respected

 

12 to 15 years have passed.

 

By now, PGX has become a part of .... Comic Book History, just like so much that is attached to this hobby. The history of a pop culture artform.

 

Question: Will PGX books start to become a novelty.......a sought after item.... like a collectible item just because it existed and is part of the mix? Maybe in the way that marks a period of time? as in "the steroid era" for baseball. Buying a PGX will be like buying a Charlton. In the long run, they just couldn't compete. A temporary player.

 

Buying a PGX in the future will possess a aire of mystery. Like a treasure hunt, a grab bag, or a fortune cookie. You just never knew what you were gonna get. They became famous for gift items in the 2020's. Old comic books, and super heros were so in the main stream of worlds consciousness ....... that the slabbed piece of "display art" were to be seen in thousands of unlikely places. Coffee houses took a lead here. Micro breweries were a close second. And I don't mean in America..... all over the world..... in places where people want to taste a part of Americas reign at the top. So they buy our old stuff.

 

Question part dos: Why will PGX be seen on display in more public places than CGC ??

 

CGC will continue expanding services.... and integrity.

 

uh......

 

This is the kinda stuff one thinks about when on vacation

[Comicopolis]

No.

[Senormac]

Thank you for attending.....

[MrBedrock]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

[Senormac]

Agreed. I suppose I'm thinking that all these Dell movie books and Four Color stuff is gonna take off because of quantity....not neccessarily quality. Say some coffee house in singapore is decorating and they want the place to be as cool as possible..... so they display American comic books. They don't really give a rip about it except what it represents.

 

 

[sufunk]

I often wonder if at this point, someone could buy PGX and completely clean house and actually make them a valid competitor to CGC

[USArmyParatrooper]

I highly doubt it.

 

Be it coins slabs or comic slabs the only value slabs have ever added has been based on the reputation of the grader. This is much easier to see when you look at coins, where there is more than just one company monopolizing the (reputable) certification market.

 

In order of reputation.

 

1: PCGS

 

2: NGC (the coin division of CGC)

 

Note: PCGS is considered slightly more reputable than NGC, But even the most finicky of collectors will at least accept these two. Also, reputable is actually a poor choice of words, because few people question the NGC's reputation. But overall PCGS is considered the most conservative of graders, right or wrong.

 

3: ANACS

 

Most collectors who recognize graders also recognize ANACS as a reputable company. Incidentally ANACS was the first and thus the oldest grading company, though they're considered 3rd tier under PCGS and NGC.

 

4: ICG

 

Solid and recognized, but many collectors shy away from them.

 

5: SEGS

 

Most collectors, including myself, will just consider the coin raw if it's in a SEGS slab. Although there are some collectors who are accepting of them.

 

6 - Infinity

 

All others are considered "boiler room" graders that are essentially worthless.

 

___

 

Who grades the coin will commonly have an affect on the price the coin commands. If the same exact coin is in a PCGS VF35 slab, it will undoubtedly sell for a much higher premium than in a SEGS VF35 slab.

 

Getting back to the point, prices tend to be based on the reputation of the grader. Even though the error coin market is considerably larger than the error comic market, I have never seen an "error slab" sell for any sort of premium, no matter how much the seller tries to highlight the error as a selling point. I don't necessarily believe PGX will go under anytime soon, but if they do they're just fall into obscurity as a black mark on the hobby. Nothing more.

[USArmyParatrooper]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

[MrBedrock]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

[USArmyParatrooper]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

[Senormac]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

 

Cuz they are reaching for a world market

[USArmyParatrooper]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

 

Cuz they are reaching for a world market

 

Raw comics have just as much of a geographic reach as certified copies.

[Senormac]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

 

Cuz they are reaching for a world market

 

Raw comics have just as much of a geographic reach as certified copies.

 

Yes.... but they are not "display-ible"

 

When I worked in the Century City towers I was in and out of offices all the time and you know what...... theres alot of cool art in some of those offices. And they got money.

 

Slabbed comic art could become quite a fad.

 

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

 

Cuz they are reaching for a world market

 

Raw comics have just as much of a geographic reach as certified copies.

 

Yes.... but they are not "display-ible"

 

When I worked in the Century City towers I was in and out of offices all the time and you know what...... theres alot of cool art in some of those offices. And they got money.

 

Slabbed comic art could become quite a fad.

 

 

The point I'm making is that CGC certification has relevance to the market that extends beyond just the comic, and certainly beyond just having an aesthetically pleasing slab. First and foremost, buyers are willing to pay more for peace of mind.

[Senormac]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

 

Cuz they are reaching for a world market

 

Raw comics have just as much of a geographic reach as certified copies.

 

Yes.... but they are not "display-ible"

 

When I worked in the Century City towers I was in and out of offices all the time and you know what...... theres alot of cool art in some of those offices. And they got money.

 

Slabbed comic art could become quite a fad.

 

 

The point I'm making is that CGC certification has relevance to the market that extends beyond just the comic, and certainly beyond just having an aesthetically pleasing slab. First and foremost, buyers are willing to pay more for peace of mind.

 

Oh, I totally agree. Just wondering what PGX will become as the years go by

[USArmyParatrooper]

 

Oh, I totally agree. Just wondering what PGX will become as the years go by

 

As the years go by they will continue to be . Even if they straighten up their act it's too late. Their reputation is already too severely tarnished. There is certainly room for healthy competition for CGC, but PGX isn't it. And I strongly disagree with your suggestion that, should PGX go under, their slabs can ever become collectors items.

[Senormac]

Maybe..... but many things are bought by people who are not collectors

[MrBedrock]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

How many people do you figure buy CGC slabs with no consideration of the comic inside?

 

Slabbed comics do not sell for sharp increases over raw comics across the board. Just take a look at some of the books graded 1.0, 2.0 etc. In fact I'll tell you that low grade comics are easier to sell raw than slabbed. But high grade books do sell for sharp increases when slabbed because they have been quantified in relation to all other copies of the same book. They therefore become more desirable to those who are looking for copies of that comic in that specific grade. In effect, the CGC holder makes the comic more liquid. But people are paying for the book, not the holder or the label.

[Scrooge]

Oh, you mean, like ... now the grade is guaranteed ...

 

Yup, as simple as that, the CGC label eliminates (in a perfect world, of which ours is a good approximation) any doubt about the quality of the item bought, and there lies the truth, it's the item that matters and only the item.

 

Always love your posts, Mr.B. :thumbsup:

[USArmyParatrooper]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

How many people do you figure buy CGC slabs with no consideration of the comic inside?

 

Slabbed comics do not sell for sharp increases over raw comics across the board. Just take a look at some of the books graded 1.0, 2.0 etc. In fact I'll tell you that low grade comics are easier to sell raw than slabbed. But high grade books do sell for sharp increases when slabbed because they have been quantified in relation to all other copies of the same book. They therefore become more desirable to those who are looking for copies of that comic in that specific grade. In effect, the CGC holder makes the comic more liquid. But people are paying for the book, not the holder or the label.

 

I never said people give no consideration to the comic inside, that would be an absurd suggestion. I simply stated that there is value added with CGC certification. First, and foremost peace of mind. This is especially important when buying online, where you can't closely inspect and scrutinize the comic. And there are other intangibles, such as building registry sets, added liquidity, added protection, etc.

 

As for lower grades selling better raw, I would need more than anecdotes to believe that. I doubt you'll be seeing many people cracking out a CGC Blue Label 1.5 Hulk 1 so they can get a better price at auction.

 

I'm assuming by, "because they have been quantified in relation to all other copies of the same book" you're referring to the census data. I don't think a high grade copy of a given book is expensive simply because the census says there aren't many graded that high. I think they're expensive simply because there is very little supply. Whether that data was available or not it would still be just as hard to find and the price would reflect that.

 

You, yourself admitted the CGC certification makes the comic more liquid. If the same exact comic becomes easier to sell inside a slab, isn't that also saying there is value added? More direct to the point. With or without the slab the comic is just as liquid. Just put it up for auction starting at 99 cents with no reserve. I promise if you keep it raw it will sell in the same amount of time right down to the second. There's no risk in doing that, since bidders are only looking at the comic with no consideration for CGC's opinion, right?