Sniping Vs Normal bidding in Comiclink auctions

[Hamlet]

Everyone appears to prefer bidding at the absolute last minute in these things (to avoid someone walking up your bid), but with the relatively high minimum bid increment, I'm not sure that makes the most sense.

 

For example, if I am willing to bid $200 first, and get bid up to it, someone entering their bid after mine has to bid at least $210.

 

So I am essentially getting a 5% advantage over a new bidder. This seems significant enough to bid first, especially for books that have fairly stable values.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

[mysterio]

Everyone appears to prefer bidding at the absolute last minute in these things (to avoid someone walking up your bid), but with the relatively high minimum bid increment, I'm not sure that makes the most sense.

 

For example, if I am willing to bid $200 first, and get bid up to it, someone entering their bid after mine has to bid at least $210.

 

So I am essentially getting a 5% advantage over a new bidder. This seems significant enough to bid first, especially for books that have fairly stable values.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

I don't think you missed anything. I snipe when possible to avoid having my bid walked up. At the last second people bid their max, whereas when they have time to think about it they may stretch higher than they would have and continue to inch it up. I know I do that when I start to picture a book in my collection before I've even won the auction, then reach higher than my previous mental max $ in order to secure it.

 

Other times I will just bid my max early and walk away, and if I win I win. It all depends on how badly I want the book.

[DeliBebek]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

[DeliBebek]

Other times I will just bid my max early and walk away, and if I win I win. It all depends on how badly I want the book.

 

That's always been my approach and I don't remember ever paying my max bid. Either I pay far below it, or I get outbid. It does take some self-control to not think that for a few dollars more it could be yours.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

[tth2]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

I don't understand how sniping beats shills. If I were shilling an auction, it'd be because I had an idea in my head how much I wanted for the book. I would then put in the shill bid at that price, and if someone wants to win the book, they're going to have to beat it whether they snipe or not.

 

Unless shill bidders have a way of retracting bids, I don't see how a shill bidder can walk bids up without running the risk of beating the highest bid. In which case it comes down to the fact that the shill bidder must have some figure in his head, and at the end of the day that figure is going to have to be beat.

[Dr. Balls]

I like to use snipe software because it allows me to think about the book before I place a bid. Sure, you could do this with your 'watch list', but I've been using snipe software since 2004 - before they had watch lists, so I'm in the habit of doing it that way.

 

A very wealthy friend of our family uses Ebay to look for vintage car parts. The way he bids, is that if he feels he doesn't want to lose an auction for a $100 car part - he will max bid $1000. He says if he overpays, he doesn't care - because he only bids on the things he needs. Crazy, but I don't think he loses out on auctions.

[red rocks-migration]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

I don't understand how sniping beats shills. If I were shilling an auction, it'd be because I had an idea in my head how much I wanted for the book. I would then put in the shill bid at that price, and if someone wants to win the book, they're going to have to beat it whether they snipe or not.

 

Unless shill bidders have a way of retracting bids, I don't see how a shill bidder can walk bids up without running the risk of beating the highest bid. In which case it comes down to the fact that the shill bidder must have some figure in his head, and at the end of the day that figure is going to have to be beat.

 

Thats why when a dealer buys the book, they only should pay 50% for keys and 15% for non keys. Then they dont have to hassle with these shilling games, it either sells for gpa or 75% of gpa, who cares they made enough money to survive!

[Aman619]

Think Russian roulette. Only without actually dying.

[Dr. Balls]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

I don't understand how sniping beats shills. If I were shilling an auction, it'd be because I had an idea in my head how much I wanted for the book. I would then put in the shill bid at that price, and if someone wants to win the book, they're going to have to beat it whether they snipe or not.

 

Unless shill bidders have a way of retracting bids, I don't see how a shill bidder can walk bids up without running the risk of beating the highest bid. In which case it comes down to the fact that the shill bidder must have some figure in his head, and at the end of the day that figure is going to have to be beat.

 

I'm not 100% on this - but shilling an auction in small increments is how you lure the real buyer into making the purchase. Your shill tries to beat the current bid by the bare minimum, so the real buyer comes back and bids $5 or $10 more dollars than the shill, and gets the high bid, locking him into the purchase. Multiply this by 10-12 times and you increase your profit.

 

Sniping keeps auction listers from being able to shill up your bid, because you're not actively bidding until the last few seconds (in theory).

 

And from what I have seen and heard on the boards, and the ridiculous things people do to squeeze more money out of their auctions - I would not be surprised at your guess to how they shill and the amount of effort they expend on it.

[spideyfan76]

Think Russian roulette. Only without actually dying.

Where's the fun in that?!

[lizards2]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

I don't understand how sniping beats shills. If I were shilling an auction, it'd be because I had an idea in my head how much I wanted for the book. I would then put in the shill bid at that price, and if someone wants to win the book, they're going to have to beat it whether they snipe or not.

 

Unless shill bidders have a way of retracting bids, I don't see how a shill bidder can walk bids up without running the risk of beating the highest bid. In which case it comes down to the fact that the shill bidder must have some figure in his head, and at the end of the day that figure is going to have to be beat.

I walk up bids because I'm an @sshole, not because I'm a shill. It's a fine distinction, I know.

[Hamlet]

It's funny, the one time someone walked up my bid I knew it wasn't shilling because the seller was a friend of mine.

 

Someone walked my bid up to my max on E-bay. Since I had bid an odd amount, they could see that I was at my max bid, since my last bid was less than the normally required bid increment.

 

I wonder if it scared off other bidders, because I ended up winning the book for my pretty lowball bid. I didn't understand why the person who walked me up didn't just bid once more, because it was a very good deal at the price.

 

I walk up bids because I'm an @sshole, not because I'm a shill. It's a fine distinction, I know.

[Chespirito]

I walk up bids because I'm an @sshole, not because I'm a shill. It's a fine distinction, I know.

 

You Sir, are one classy dude!! (thumbs u

[Chespirito]

Think Russian roulette. Only without actually dying.

Where's the fun in that?!

 

In that people think you're going to die..it's hilarious when you see their faces as you bring the gun up to your temple...

[lizards2]

Probably because he (or I) didn't really want the book in the first place. Sometimes I'll walk up a bunch of bids by the same bidder, so that they're fully or over-committed...., and less likely to overbid me on the books I do want.

 

It's funny, the one time someone walked up my bid I knew it wasn't shilling because the seller was a friend of mine.

 

Someone walked my bid up to my max on E-bay. Since I had bid an odd amount, they could see that I was at my max bid, since my last bid was less than the normally required bid increment.

 

I wonder if it scared off other bidders, because I ended up winning the book for my pretty lowball bid. I didn't understand why the person who walked me up didn't just bid once more, because it was a very good deal at the price.

 

I walk up bids because I'm an @sshole, not because I'm a shill. It's a fine distinction, I know.

 

 

[mysterio]

It's funny, the one time someone walked up my bid I knew it wasn't shilling because the seller was a friend of mine.

 

Someone walked my bid up to my max on E-bay. Since I had bid an odd amount, they could see that I was at my max bid, since my last bid was less than the normally required bid increment.

 

I wonder if it scared off other bidders, because I ended up winning the book for my pretty lowball bid. I didn't understand why the person who walked me up didn't just bid once more, because it was a very good deal at the price.

 

I walk up bids because I'm an @sshole, not because I'm a shill. It's a fine distinction, I know.

 

They may not have actually wanted the book, and just wanted to make you pay more. On days when I'm feeling a bit evil and I see someone double or triple stacked on an eBay item (meaning that one user represents the top two or three bidders on a lot because they have placed multiple high bids) I will walk their bid up until I break the double stack by exceeding their second highest bid but not their absolute max. That way they pay more and I am safe from accidentally becoming high bidder. This is not shilling, at least not in any definition I'm familiar with, because I have no financial or other interest in the outcome other than being a bit of a jerk.

 

Moral of the story: Even if you really want a book don't exceed your own high bid well before the close of the auction. Feel free to snipe your own bid at the end of an auction as insurance (you can't raise your own bid by outbidding yourself), but if you double stack earlier on you invite being walked up.

[Aman619]

double stack???

[DeliBebek]

Sniping is essentially an anti-shill technique. I think those in favor of sniping have had experiences with shills and refuse to get burned again, understandably. I'd love to see an actual mathematical analysis comparing both principles, but I don't think Dr. Cooper is on the boards.

I don't understand how sniping beats shills. If I were shilling an auction, it'd be because I had an idea in my head how much I wanted for the book. I would then put in the shill bid at that price, and if someone wants to win the book, they're going to have to beat it whether they snipe or not.

 

Unless shill bidders have a way of retracting bids, I don't see how a shill bidder can walk bids up without running the risk of beating the highest bid. In which case it comes down to the fact that the shill bidder must have some figure in his head, and at the end of the day that figure is going to have to be beat.

 

If I were shilling, that's how I'd do it as well, but the evidence generally shows the "walking up" technique. I think it's too obvious, and I don't know how they manage not to "overbid" the real bidder either.

[mysterio]

double stack???

 

Yep. A double stack on an eBay bidder list for an auction looks like this:

 

B**** (1413)

B**** (1413)

V**** (456)

G**** (4567)

T**** (34)

E**** (56)

T**** (34)

 

See how the top two records are the same? That means that the two highest bids were placed by the same person, who had second thoughts and then came back and raised their bid by some amount. I don't know what anyone else calls this, but I call it a double stack.