Tony Moore Sues Robert Kirkman Over "Walking Dead" Proceeds

[Chespirito]

I prepped my London trip to see Moore..he cancelled!!!

[Dale Roberts]

Maybe he can take consolation in the fact that the Walking Dead has allowed him to sell his original art for ridiculous prices in relation to the level of his talent.

 

Taken out of context of the Walking Dead, you can buy art at any comic convention that is just as good for $15 - 25 a page.

 

 

His art was selling for several thousand a cover and several thousand per page of interiors long before there was ever a whiff of discussion about a TV show.

 

I don't know how much time you spend actually looking at original art. I spend about 95% of my time in this hobby doing exactly that, and I don't think it's possible for me to disagree more with you about his level of talent.

 

 

I didn't mention the TV show, just the Walking Dead property as a whole. You are welcome to disagree with me, but when Tony Moore's art is priced at the same numbers as Kirby and Adams, something tells me is has to do more with the property he is working on, than his actual ability.

 

For example, if Tony Moore were to draw something besides a zombie books, say Aquaman or the Flash, do you think those pages would sell for thousands of dollars? No chance.

 

His art isn't priced the exact same as Kirby or Adams. I prime Kirby piece goes for much more than a prime Moore piece. Sure Moore benefited from working on Walking Dead. Don't you think Kirby benefited from working on Fantastic Four?

 

You might not like Moore's style but you don't get stuff like this in a convention for 15 bucks.

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=747814&GSub=49534

 

 

Thanks for making my point for me. You go to artist alley at any convention and you can find 10 guys looking for work whose art is exactly this good or better.

 

Obviously others feel strongly about this, but the art was so bad that I just could not read the series. I tried the first 10 - 12 issues and gave it up.

 

And honestly, any Neal Adams art is artistically better than any Tony Moore art. Might not be as "interesting", but it's better.

 

[Dr. Balls]

I prepped my London trip to see Moore..he cancelled!!!

 

Maybe he cancelled to spend time growing himself a long beard and practicing his fist shaking at the sky...

[Dr. Balls]

You might not like Moore's style but you don't get stuff like this in a convention for 15 bucks.

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=747814&GSub=49534

 

Thanks for making my point for me. You go to artist alley at any convention and you can find 10 guys looking for work whose art is exactly this good or better.

 

That's pretty much what I got from that link. I don't think his work is bad at all, but I do agree that there's Artist Alley guys who are doing the same stuff - they just don't have the recognition. Moore is on a hot book, and when it comes to popularity, that seems like 90% of the battle.

[comix4fun]

I'm kinda in-between on this commentary. I think Tony Moore should be grateful for what he's gotten on TWD, take that momentum and create another franchise while the iron is hot - yeah, he got screwed, but it was his own fault.

 

We are supposed to assume this, how?

 

His artwork is mediocre and acceptable. Not good, not bad. Doesn't suck, but not amazing. Totally in the middle.

 

Especially his convention sketches....

 

[Dr. Balls]

I'm kinda in-between on this commentary. I think Tony Moore should be grateful for what he's gotten on TWD, take that momentum and create another franchise while the iron is hot - yeah, he got screwed, but it was his own fault.

 

We are supposed to assume this, how?

 

"In the complaint, Moore alleges...Moore claims he was informed by Kirkman a television deal for "The Walking Dead" was on the table, but "Kirkman would not be able to complete the deal unless [Moore] assigned all of his interest in the Walking Dead and other works to Kirkman," Moore signed the contract, believing the deal would not go through and claims Kirkman was attempting to "swindle" him out of his 50 percent interest in "The Walking Dead's" "motion picture net proceeds."

 

It's right there in the complaint. Full admittance that he was not the smartest guy in the room, by a long shot. I can't feel sorry for someone dumb enough to fall for the "If you don't sign, we won't get a TV show!" line.

 

And I stand by what I said about his work. Great sketch. Not mind-blowing. But that is my opinion - and by no means do I offer it as expert or gospel. Just chiming in.

[Dale Roberts]

I'm kinda in-between on this commentary. I think Tony Moore should be grateful for what he's gotten on TWD, take that momentum and create another franchise while the iron is hot - yeah, he got screwed, but it was his own fault.

 

We are supposed to assume this, how?

 

His artwork is mediocre and acceptable. Not good, not bad. Doesn't suck, but not amazing. Totally in the middle.

 

Especially his convention sketches....

 

 

 

That convention sketch is very good. Better than anything of his I have ever seen published by him.

 

Look, I am not trying to slam him as a no talent. There are lots of guys in artist alley with talent. But the key is getting the right opportunity, on the right book, at the right time. He got all of those, and he capitalized upon it. I don't blame him for that. I am just saying that if another of those guys had that same opportunity, we could be talking about them, instead of Moore.

 

[comix4fun]

I'm kinda in-between on this commentary. I think Tony Moore should be grateful for what he's gotten on TWD, take that momentum and create another franchise while the iron is hot - yeah, he got screwed, but it was his own fault.

 

We are supposed to assume this, how?

 

"In the complaint, Moore alleges...Moore claims he was informed by Kirkman a television deal for "The Walking Dead" was on the table, but "Kirkman would not be able to complete the deal unless [Moore] assigned all of his interest in the Walking Dead and other works to Kirkman," Moore signed the contract, believing the deal would not go through and claims Kirkman was attempting to "swindle" him out of his 50 percent interest in "The Walking Dead's" "motion picture net proceeds."

 

It's right there in the complaint. Full admittance that he was not the smartest guy in the room, by a long shot. I can't feel sorry for someone dumb enough to fall for the "If you don't sign, we won't get a TV show!" line.

 

And I stand by what I said about his work. Great sketch. Not mind-blowing. But that is my opinion - and by no means do I offer it as expert or gospel. Just chiming in.

 

 

Making an allegation that someone you knew and trusted for decades took advantage of you by deception isn't the same as "did it to himself" is it?

 

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

[Dr. Balls]

Making an allegation that someone you knew and trusted for decades took advantage of you by deception isn't the same as "did it to himself" is it?

 

That line of thinking has no place in business dealings of potentially multi-million dollar licensing properties.

 

I can see where people would sympathize with him, though. I've had my fair share of people ask me to contribute work-for-trade for a future payoff and those scenarios (obviously, not to the scale of TWD) - artists are notoriously ignorant to the business side of things. He made a bonehead move and got screwed by a childhood friend. Happens every day on Jerry Springer.

[comix4fun]

Well my point was not the childhood friend part, but the gaining of confidence and the allegation of dishonest dealing as a result. When one party is alleged to be dishonest in dealing it undoes the entire deal. There's no meeting of the minds where one party isn't dealing properly.

 

From what I read it can be read he "screwed himself" (passive) or more emphatically "that he got screwed" (active). The allegations are something was done to him. I haven't seen anything to the contrary yet.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

I'm kinda in-between on this commentary. I think Tony Moore should be grateful for what he's gotten on TWD, take that momentum and create another franchise while the iron is hot - yeah, he got screwed, but it was his own fault.

 

We are supposed to assume this, how?

 

"In the complaint, Moore alleges...Moore claims he was informed by Kirkman a television deal for "The Walking Dead" was on the table, but "Kirkman would not be able to complete the deal unless [Moore] assigned all of his interest in the Walking Dead and other works to Kirkman," Moore signed the contract, believing the deal would not go through and claims Kirkman was attempting to "swindle" him out of his 50 percent interest in "The Walking Dead's" "motion picture net proceeds."

 

It's right there in the complaint. Full admittance that he was not the smartest guy in the room, by a long shot. I can't feel sorry for someone dumb enough to fall for the "If you don't sign, we won't get a TV show!" line.

 

And I stand by what I said about his work. Great sketch. Not mind-blowing. But that is my opinion - and by no means do I offer it as expert or gospel. Just chiming in.

 

 

Making an allegation that someone you knew and trusted for decades took advantage of you by deception isn't the same as "did it to himself" is it?

 

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I have seen Moore's con sketches before and that is not typical of most of them. Maybe you get special attention....

[Dr. Balls]

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I can take that for what it's worth. This isn't really a matter of thinking he's not talented - that is definitely not the case. I think the discussion here is that TWD (as an entity, not just Kirkland's writing) made Tony Moore, not the other way around.

[Dale Roberts]

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I can take that for what it's worth. This isn't really a matter of thinking he's not talented - that is definitely not the case. I think the discussion here is that TWD (as an entity, not just Kirkland's writing) made Tony Moore, not the other way around.

 

(thumbs u

 

well said.....

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

[wolf_2099]

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

 

I agree completely. His art good, not great, and certainly not good enough for the level of cost his OA on Walking Dead is going for.

 

However, the popularity of WD, which I think can be attributed to Adlard and Kirkman, is what did it.

 

 

Look at Key of Z artwork, do you see anyone scrambling for that?

[Dr. Balls]

From what I read it can be read he "screwed himself" (passive) or more emphatically "that he got screwed" (active). The allegations are something was done to him. I haven't seen anything to the contrary yet.

 

 

True. I look at it from the "screwed himself" perspective, and you, the other. I take that side of the discussion because I won't leave the cell phone store without confirmations in writing because I don't trust anyone's word in business dealings.

 

Granted, I wasn't always that way - and that may be where Moore was mentally. He may have not been in a position in 2005 to be an effective business person - and he got taken advantage of. People get taken advantage of every day, except they lack the means or finances to do anything about it. That's just the way it goes.

[Point Five]

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I can take that for what it's worth. This isn't really a matter of thinking he's not talented - that is definitely not the case. I think the discussion here is that TWD (as an entity, not just Kirkland's writing) made Tony Moore, not the other way around.

 

(thumbs u

 

well said.....

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

But what popular artist can't you say that about really? If Steve Ditko stayed on the pre-hero monster books and never worked on the hero books, he would be nearly forgotten today. Or Neal Adams gets put on Hot Wheels but not Batman or GA/GL. Or Todd McFarlane gets stuck on Infinity Inc and doesn't get to draw Spidey. Etc, etc...

 

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I can take that for what it's worth. This isn't really a matter of thinking he's not talented - that is definitely not the case. I think the discussion here is that TWD (as an entity, not just Kirkland's writing) made Tony Moore, not the other way around.

 

(thumbs u

 

well said.....

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

 

Tony Moore's opportunity here is akin to what the Image guys did in the 90's. They took their popularity and built an empire from it. They went from being made into household names by working on Marvel comics, to making household names out of their creations by capitalizing on the popularity thrust onto them working for someone else.

 

That is the business opportunity here. Not embroiling yourself in a lawsuit for years, sapping creativity and causing sleepless nights. Tony Moore's best move (from the armchair quarterback's perspective) would be to close the door, accept it and move on to a greater goal. Difficult, but do-able.

[comix4fun]

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

 

I agree completely. His art good, not great, and certainly not good enough for the level of cost his OA on Walking Dead is going for.

 

However, the popularity of WD, which I think can be attributed to Adlard and Kirkman, is what did it.

 

 

Look at Key of Z artwork, do you see anyone scrambling for that?

 

 

 

Art is "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it. Since many of his covers and pages and interiors have sold they are "worth" exactly what the seller and buyer agreed upon.

 

These discussions of worth always crack me up especially AFTER the pieces are sold.

[Dale Roberts]

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I can take that for what it's worth. This isn't really a matter of thinking he's not talented - that is definitely not the case. I think the discussion here is that TWD (as an entity, not just Kirkland's writing) made Tony Moore, not the other way around.

 

(thumbs u

 

well said.....

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

But what artist can't you say that about really? If Steve Ditko stayed on the pre-hero monster books and never worked on the hero books, he would be nearly forgotten today. Or Neal Adams gets put on Hot Wheels but not Batman or GA/GL. Or Todd McFarlane gets stuck on Infinity Inc and not Spidey. Etc, etc...

 

 

 

It seems to me that you are missing the point.

 

Adams was immensely talented. DC and Marvel recognized this. He didn't get "stuck" on anything. For a couple of years, Adams was doing covers for many of DCs best books. They realized his talent and capitalized on it.

 

I don't think you can make any statement with regards to Ditko. He was a different cat who marched to the beat of his own drum. Still does apparently.

 

McFarlane was much like Adams. Talented, innovative. Marvel puts him on there best books to capitalize.

 

No one is clamoring for Moore to draw their book. His creative ability meshed perfectly with Kirkman's writing ability and subject matter. He is popular because of the situation he was in........which was my point from the beginning.

 

In reality, NO ONE knows who did what. Not with Lee/Kirby/Ditko and not with Kirkman/Moore. Certainly, all were involved in some aspect of the creative process. The critical points in all cases are how each person handled the business part of his personal situation. For whatever reason, Lee and Kirkman have fared far better than the other people involved. Maybe it was by being smarter, maybe it was being more attentive, maybe it was by being more personable, maybe it was by being underhanded. Or maybe it was simply that some people have better judgement and a better ability to see the big picture than others (this would get my vote).

 

There is no way anyone can tell you for sure, and certainly, my opinion is no better than anyone else's. The only people that know the truth (and even this might not be so cut and dried, as I am sure each has his own version of the truth) are the immediate people involved.

[comix4fun]

I showed that sketch as an example of what he does at a convention table, while shaking hands and kissing babies. For what it is, a convention sketch, it's pretty damn tight. Most dudes can't do that with a full studio of the latest equipment...and certainly not for $20.

 

I can take that for what it's worth. This isn't really a matter of thinking he's not talented - that is definitely not the case. I think the discussion here is that TWD (as an entity, not just Kirkland's writing) made Tony Moore, not the other way around.

 

(thumbs u

 

well said.....

 

I am saying if Tony Moore's opportunity would have been on a vertigo horror title, or a darker super-hero book or something similar, he would not be as popular as he is.

 

Tony Moore's opportunity here is akin to what the Image guys did in the 90's. They took their popularity and built an empire from it. They went from being made into household names by working on Marvel comics, to making household names out of their creations by capitalizing on the popularity thrust onto them working for someone else.

 

That is the business opportunity here. Not embroiling yourself in a lawsuit for years, sapping creativity and causing sleepless nights. Tony Moore's best move (from the armchair quarterback's perspective) would be to close the door, accept it and move on to a greater goal. Difficult, but do-able.

 

 

 

So if you felt someone took from you something you felt was yours and was now worth millions you would just walk away from it? Really?

 

You don't feel the right thing to do is get your due? To get your fair share? You'd just let someone else profit off of what you made? I can't fathom being a willing doormat.