Blank Variant Covers - Graded or Raw?

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Well, I've been selling off most of my comics the last few months, and I've decided to focus on getting sketches done instead of buying books, with the exception of a handful of books I still want for my collection.

 

I plan on having the sketches done on blank variant covers, since I have amassed quite a bit of them. I will undoubtedly sell most of them eventually, keeping only my favourites, and I want to know how best to recoup the investment made in the sketches, so my question is this. Is it better to get them SS graded or just leave them raw? And if the former, does the grade rally matter?

 

Despite all of my knowledge about comics, this is an area I am almost completely clueless about. I see sketch covers regularly sell for $50.00-200.00. Are people making profit, breaking even, or losing money after the cost of the sketch (and grading if graded)? I don't want to spend say $2,000.00 for several sketches only to find out that the resale value is $500.00 for instance.

 

Any advice that could help this sketch noob would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

(thumbs u

[RavenX-13]

If your plan is to sell them at some point then it may be best to have them graded. Graded sketches are almost always more desirable than raw ones. However, a nice piece of art is going to sell no matter what. Also, with sketch prices being what they are now, I doubt the resale value will be that significant unless the artist is extremely popular or if the sketch was free

[Greedo]

While, I don't agree with it, Grade can very much affect the price (most exceptions would be from hard to get Legends)

 

As far as sale price goes, it is hard to say I have sold and bought for gains, losses, & break even.

 

If you do want to make your money back stick to popular characters.

 

And for the most part I personally rarely buy ungraded sketch covers, I would prefer just regular paper.

[AKA Rick]

I see this from several perspectives.

 

1) If your sole reason is for profiteering, then you need to factor in the costs of the grading (including shipping etc.) into what price you can realize for the piece.

 

2) If there's a "timing" factor such as taking advantage of selling Avengers sketches when the movie is released, will the CGC process cause delays.

 

3) There are a lot of collectors who do like the aesthetics of the CGC slab, sort of like a nice display frame. There's also a lot of collectors who like the fact (which is only as reliable as the authenticating source, and some of those quite frankly can be suspect and sketchy characters) that there's a certain level of authenticity or certification. So, I understand that appeal, but not at a huge premium or care about the actual graded number.

 

4) For I want to almost say "us" orginal art collectors however, the CGC slab and grading whether a 9.8 or a 9.2 means nearly nothing, the comic book condition is the background, and the comic art is the foreground. I'd rather have a 7.0 graded piece with a commission by a top notch artist like Adam Hughes than a 9.8 graded piece by an amateur artists alley artist or weak scribble doodle sketch by a good artist. It truly is all about the artwork.

 

The speculators who buy into the CGC hype of grading sketch covers are not factoring in the "who cares" factor and also the inherant nature that in order for some artists to draw on a cover, it's going to be handled, so rather than put the gloves on and treat it like fragile glass, I'd say don't sweat the condition and put care more about the actual drawing itself.

 

Original art is rarely about condition (aside from flat out damages). Whether there's tanning, writing in the margins, clipping on the corners, frayed edges or corner bends.

 

With that, I'd probably say the best bet is to sell them ungraded, especially if you already have them and I think you need a witness to certify during the actual rendering of the sketch that it's authentic and can't just submit comics with drawings for signature series that's in your collection.

 

Personally, I think sketch cover collecting can be fun, but shouldn't be an obsession for profteering or thinking getting high grades means much at the end of the day (I do believe if pointed out, people will realize "who cares" when it comes to the condition of a one of a kind skech on a comic). It's a nice medium, small size to carry around, the book itself has reference material for the artist (assuming you get a "Wolverine" on an "X-Men" blank cover and don't ask for "Wonder Woman") and is easy to store.

 

It gets expensive 'tho, at $3 - 6 per sketch cover, you can get a nice sketchbook instead for pennies a page that holds the collection together ('tho harder for resale and maybe not as asethetic of a drawing medium).

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Thanks gang. Plenty of food for thought. I'm leaning towards the CGC route where possible, but only for authentication purposes, and not for the grade. It's abut the artwork and not the grade of the canvas it's been drawn upon. But then again, is the authentication really needed? Is OA from a comic authenticated?

 

I guess I'll just have to track the realized prices of these things on Ebay and here to get a good feel for it. How much does the average artist charge for a sketch? I've only had one done (NEAL ADAMS) and it cost $300.....

 

Cheers!

[Greedo]

Most will charge there 9 x 12 rate for sketch covers. But some charge alot more than a similar size paper.

[AKA Rick]

Keep in mind if this is a business model, who your target market is.

 

There are comic book collectors who don't care about orginal art.

 

There are original art collectors who don't like the sketch cover format, for both size and thickness (it's on a comic book cover, not a flat piece of paper easier to store and/or frame).

 

So, it's sort of a hybrid offering, much like the "Sketch Card" segment, which within the original art fraction, I think cooled off when those collectors really took the intellectual time to think about what they were paying for.

 

Granted these sketch cards pulled from packs were and are one of a kind and only allocated one per box or even one per case, but... "who cares?" - - after all, all original art whether published or a commission is in fact just as scarce and one of a kind. The only difference, in many cases is in fact the quality. How much rendering work can be done on a small 2" x 3" trading card compared to the more traditional sizes? Can a masterpiece be done? YES, of course, we've seen 'em all... but in the same breath... how much more awesome would tht 2" x 3" piece be if it were done on 11" x 17" or even a comic book sketch cover? Sketch cards are the Beanie Babies of the original art world. Too many people got into it for all the wrong reasons.

 

So, using that same philosophy, if you commission something on a sketch cover measuring 6.5" x 10" and after you take away the top logo, it leaves an artist about a 6.5" x 8" drawing surface... how desirable or "NOT" is that compared to getting a full 9" x 12" (if they charge that same rate).

 

I think sketch covers are cool and fun, but as an investment it's a house of cards waiting to fall apart once people take time to think what they're really getting, compared to what that money can get in better bang for the buck quality, generally speaking.

 

 

[AKA Rick]

If you're going to conventions anyway to get these sketches, and need a CGC witness to certify and authenticate, then are laying down $50 to grade a commission you paid between $0 Free to $300 for, that eats into your acquisition cost.

 

You're better off, and in my opinion it's a nicer form of a COA, just whipping out a camera (even one on your cell phone) and having the artist hold up the drawing and take a photo of them with it.

 

Generally, original art and commissions are fairly easy to identify forgeries ('tho a lot are discovered after the sale if online, due to some fraud being photocopies of originals).

 

Be careful 'tho, the original art convention goers are a sensitive group, if not clique and are the first to publically out "fans in sheeps clothing" also commonly known as "flippers" who go to conventions to get sketches for the pure purpose of turning around and reselling them for profit. It's a legal process, just frowned upon and a lot of the gossip mongering types are quick to tell artists not to do sketches for certain individuals, and some artists are disgused by fans in disguise exploiting the opportunity to get the fan/artist experience and essentially taking away the chance of a true fan to get a skech in the name of capitolistic greed. Some of these folks even bring their friends, so a line of 40 can be filled with multiple posers representing the same seller. It's an interesting thing to witness.

 

So, if you're a comic art fan and want to do your best to maintain that "upstanding citizen and role model member of the community" in the convention circuit, you might want to think about the sketch cover resale model, as it may jeopardize your position for future acquisitions.

 

Artists start to recognize these "fans" who they draw artwork for only to see that art posted for sale. Ask J Scott Campbell about the kid who asked for the Black Cat, which subsequently an adult (whether a relative or maybe that guy hired a kid to garner that preferential treatment) posted for sale on eBay.

 

A lot of the artists current practices and pricing within the convention circuit are a direct result of so-called fans taking advantage of opportunities in the name of profiteering. That's part of the reason why a lot of the true fans get upset. In fact, just ask Neal Adams. He may charge $300, but it's out of necessity since he used to sketch for fans for free (he is truly a nice guy) until he say situations where the ink was barely dry and the stuff he did for these "fans" were posted on eBay for sale. It's very disheartening when you're lied to, as they hear "I'm your biggest fan" so many times. Many artists rates only reflect the market value of what the art can sell for online, so also factoring that into your business model, do you buy a Neal Adams sketch for $300, and roll the dice maybe either not being able to sell it for even a loss at $200, or possibly maybe make $50-100 profit, but lay out the initial capitol on something you potentially don't want to keep for yourself and only acquired to resell?

 

Thanks gang. Plenty of food for thought. I'm leaning towards the CGC route where possible, but only for authentication purposes, and not for the grade. It's abut the artwork and not the grade of the canvas it's been drawn upon. But then again, is the authentication really needed? Is OA from a comic authenticated?

 

I guess I'll just have to track the realized prices of these things on Ebay and here to get a good feel for it. How much does the average artist charge for a sketch? I've only had one done (NEAL ADAMS) and it cost $300.....

 

Cheers!

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

If you're going to conventions anyway to get these sketches, and need a CGC witness to certify and authenticate, then are laying down $50 to grade a commission you paid between $0 Free to $300 for, that eats into your acquisition cost.

 

You're better off, and in my opinion it's a nicer form of a COA, just whipping out a camera (even one on your cell phone) and having the artist hold up the drawing and take a photo of them with it.

 

Generally, original art and commissions are fairly easy to identify forgeries ('tho a lot are discovered after the sale if online, due to some fraud being photocopies of originals).

 

Be careful 'tho, the original art convention goers are a sensitive group, if not clique and are the first to publically out "fans in sheeps clothing" also commonly known as "flippers" who go to conventions to get sketches for the pure purpose of turning around and reselling them for profit. It's a legal process, just frowned upon and a lot of the gossip mongering types are quick to tell artists not to do sketches for certain individuals, and some artists are disgused by fans in disguise exploiting the opportunity to get the fan/artist experience and essentially taking away the chance of a true fan to get a skech in the name of capitolistic greed. Some of these folks even bring their friends, so a line of 40 can be filled with multiple posers representing the same seller. It's an interesting thing to witness.

 

So, if you're a comic art fan and want to do your best to maintain that "upstanding citizen and role model member of the community" in the convention circuit, you might want to think about the sketch cover resale model, as it may jeopardize your position for future acquisitions.

 

Artists start to recognize these "fans" who they draw artwork for only to see that art posted for sale. Ask J Scott Campbell about the kid who asked for the Black Cat, which subsequently an adult (whether a relative or maybe that guy hired a kid to garner that preferential treatment) posted for sale on eBay.

 

A lot of the artists current practices and pricing within the convention circuit are a direct result of so-called fans taking advantage of opportunities in the name of profiteering. That's part of the reason why a lot of the true fans get upset. In fact, just ask Neal Adams. He may charge $300, but it's out of necessity since he used to sketch for fans for free (he is truly a nice guy) until he say situations where the ink was barely dry and the stuff he did for these "fans" were posted on eBay for sale. It's very disheartening when you're lied to, as they hear "I'm your biggest fan" so many times. Many artists rates only reflect the market value of what the art can sell for online, so also factoring that into your business model, do you buy a Neal Adams sketch for $300, and roll the dice maybe either not being able to sell it for even a loss at $200, or possibly maybe make $50-100 profit, but lay out the initial capitol on something you potentially don't want to keep for yourself and only acquired to resell?

 

Thanks gang. Plenty of food for thought. I'm leaning towards the CGC route where possible, but only for authentication purposes, and not for the grade. It's abut the artwork and not the grade of the canvas it's been drawn upon. But then again, is the authentication really needed? Is OA from a comic authenticated?

 

I guess I'll just have to track the realized prices of these things on Ebay and here to get a good feel for it. How much does the average artist charge for a sketch? I've only had one done (NEAL ADAMS) and it cost $300.....

 

Cheers!

All interesting points and comments. There's NO way I would have paid NEAL $300.00 if it were for resale. It's the only sketch I've had done so far, and it's a keeper (and besides I don't think anyone would buy it if I were to put it up for sale, because it's not the best piece and it was tailored to my collecting focus - Robin death covers).

 

My objective is to dabble in the sketch field since I've lost most of my interest in collecting back issues. I think many of us get to the point where we've owned pretty much everything of interest and start to lose the thrill, and this seems like a fun way to rekindle some excitement. In regards to selling, I'm asking all this because I want to know if it's something that is easy to break even in come the day you no longer want a piece and/or you want to sell because you're simply unhappy with the finished project. I approach comics from a very monetary perspective insofar that I make sure to purchase items with a low chance of loss, hence why I was collecting keys, classic covers, and high grade. This is an expensive hobby and I try to be wise with my investments.

 

I've seen many cool sketch covers for sale here over the years and I was wondering if the sales prices of these items were greater than the cost of the sketch itself. As a result I've refrained from purchasing any sketch covers, until such time I am better informed. Besides NEAL, I've only asked one other artist for a sketch and it was SUYDAM, but I declined once he gave me his price, which was 'only' $70.00 or so, but at the time I was blown away. Like I said - I'm new to the whole sketch thing, and I now realize it does cost a pretty penny, as the NEAL ADAMS piece proved.

 

Thanks again for the advice, and no, this isn't a business model in development. I just don't want to spend money that is forever lost.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Oh yeah, is there a way to find out how much an artist is going to charge at a con before actually stepping foot inside the con venue?

[Greedo]

Contact them directly or PM someone who has a sketch from them for an idea on price.

 

 

 

Like anything there is some risk involved, like I said earlier the spider-man & Captian America sketches will hold value better than MODOKs and Fin Fang Fooms.

 

Also if you CGC (and I think you should) get a bunch at a show to keep your costs down.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Contact them directly or PM someone who has a sketch from them for an idea on price.

 

 

 

Like anything there is some risk involved, like I said earlier the spider-man & Captian America sketches will hold value better than MODOKs and Fin Fang Fooms.

 

Also if you CGC (and I think you should) get a bunch at a show to keep your costs down.

Thanks and nice THOR by the way! (thumbs u

[Greedo]

Thank you sir! Outside of Kirby, Simonson is my favorite artist!

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Thank you sir! Outside of Kirby, Simonson is my favorite artist!

My 2 fav THOR artists, along with RON FRENZ believe it or not...

[Greedo]

Ron Frenz draws an Awesome Thor! I hope to get a Thor from him on a cover or a Jam Peice one day.

 

 

FYI, Frenz charges more for blank covers.

 

http://www.catskillcomics.com/frenz.htm

[Dave Aikins]

do your homework. Research forums, email the artists or contact them through Facebook, Deviant art, etc.

 

But word to the wise- I'm not sure there's much profit to be made with resale on these. You've got the cost of the sketch, the cost of going to the con, your time, the cost and time to sell the sketch/book.... and the art has a limited audience.

 

and convention sketch prices are getting higher and higher- sometimes due to the artists wanting to match whatever resale value they see their art has. Many artists are looking for that "sweet spot" in their pricing where collectors will pay the price, but the art doesn't get more on the secondary market (or loses value in resale).

 

Ultimately, the artists' goal is to find a price where the fans still buy, but the art doesn't gain money in resale.

 

[AKA Rick]

I think once the investors and speculators start coming into any hobby, it imacts the collectors and the marketplace negatively.

 

It happened with the formerly free sketches, which now are far and few between in both quality and opportunity.

 

It's happening now with commissions, whether at a convention or other means.

 

You'll soon see a lot of the investors looking to turn a quick buck realize it's not that easy and hopefully start to get stuck with the art they don't love like a room filled with beanie babies and eventually put 'em on fire sale at losses to salvage any of their investment to the benefit of fans.

 

Hopefully artists will start insisting on personalizing these commissions and sketches or charging less for personalized ones knowing they're going to the fans and not for resale, or a charging a premium for unpersonalized drawings.

 

I know a lot of art collectors don't like personalization, neither getting their own name on a piece (seeing it as an aesthetic blemish) or worst, having some other random peson's name on a piece in their collection.

[Dave Aikins]

yeah, I hate having my name on a sketch or commission. It can totally ruin the art (same with a distracting signature). I have no plans on reselling art, but guess what- it's not a big deal if I decide I want to sell it one day.

 

There's an equal argument that many artists need to get over this notion of resenting the reselling of their art. It happens. There's always extremes that are the exception- the aggressive dealer/flipper, for instance. But often, a collector has decided to sell to buy something new, or get something better, or god forbid, life has taken a bad turn and they need the cash.

But this is the discussion that always happens when someone talk about selling convention sketches. there's always the " Yer not a real fan!!! Yer ruining it for the real fans!!!" side... and then there's the guy that beat you in line at a convention, buys a ton of art you wanted, and puts it on ebay the next day.

 

both extremes can be obnoxious.

 

I just don't see the immediate cash in flipping the majority sketches. There are artists that bring in immediate profit, but these artists also are aware of that (as are their fans) so you risk some serious backlash from immediate flipping of the art. Other artists that might not care if you flip it, because they know you won't get much extra cash (if any) for your troubles. And even if you make $25-50 extra on a sketch- after ebay and paypal fees, and your time... that's not much profit.

[wolf_2099]

Oh yeah, is there a way to find out how much an artist is going to charge at a con before actually stepping foot inside the con venue?

 

E-mail them, or check their website.

 

I contacted a few dozen artists over the last two years, and everyone has gotten back to me about their prices, if they weren't already listed on their sites.

[Captain Canuck]

I recently tried to commission a sketch on blank sketch cover from a GA artist, but he refused because he didn't want to see his art resold. I told him I had no intention of reselling it and if he felt more comfortable he could personalize it. He went into a rant and rave, asked my age and said how do I know or you know that you won't eventually sell it. If I choose to sell it at some point, that is my choice and right, not the artists. I paid for a service and can do with the sketch as I please, but after a big argument and him getting very upset, I said forget it. In some respects the guys who are trying to make a quick buck are ruining it for everyone else.